Need a new DG. G5 vs G275 vs refurbished DG

Penguinforce

Penguinforce

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Penguinforce
My DG failed at the perfect time, on my IFR checkride. Luckily I passed it but we are now in the market of needing to replace or upgrade the DG. There’s a lot of info online but it’s almost overwhelming. Just wanted some opinions on what people recommend, keeping cost of course in mind. We have a garmin 650 waas installed in the aircraft already. (See attached picture for our current panel)

do people recommend we just buy a refurbished DG? Or if we upgrade, what are your thoughts of the G5 vs G275? (Only looking to get one, not a dual setup). And with the G5 and G275, are there database updates? If so, anyone know the approximate cost?
 

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The G5 will be more invasive panel mods, because it is square. It is also just an HSI, so no databases other than the magnetic field update every decade. The GI-275 is round, so less panel mods. It has a moving map HSI mode, so it requires database updates every 28 days. I think mine are $200/year more than the GTN650 alone, so not horrible.

Looking ahead, what will you do when the AI dies? The G5 will drive the heading mode input for legacy autopilots, but will not drive the attitude input. The GI275 will drive both the attitude and heading inputs. So G5 is cheaper now, but may not set you up for where you want to be on the next update.

There are many reports on the GI275 Facebook group of some of the 275 models being unobtanium right now, so your hands may be tied regardless. Worth asking supply questions to your installer.

i have a Century II and wanted to lose the vacuum system, so I went with the 275s. I love them so much I’m thinking about pulling the second CDI and putting in a third 275 as an MFD/CDI. A G500 level system is probably even better, but panel space, approvals, and the like made that a no-go. Sometimes having a weird plane sucks :).
 
My DG is slowly on the way out and I need to decide whether to OH or upgrade as well. Ultimately, a dual 275 configuration is the way I want to go. As far as G5 vs 275...the 275 is certainly the superior unit. There are database updates, but pretty sure they aren't required for the 275. As far as costs go, glass option is obviously a little pricier and when configuring with an autopilot it increases even a little more.

One thing to consider is how quickly do you need the upgraded DG? There will be a wait involved to get the 275 (probably G5 as well) installed due to busy shops and supply constraints. An overhauled DG would likely have minimal downtime.
 
Supposedly 3-4 month wait for the 275. Won’t know until it arrives
 
I had my DG go out about a year ago.

I chose to call a shop and had a refurbished exchange sent out.

Zero avionics-shop time, very low bill to get it swapped out, less than $1,000 start-to-finish, and less than a week in total.
 
Penguinforce said:
My DG failed at the perfect time, on my IFR checkride. Luckily I passed it but we are now in the market of needing to replace or upgrade the DG. There’s a lot of info online but it’s almost overwhelming. Just wanted some opinions on what people recommend, keeping cost of course in mind. We have a garmin 650 waas installed in the aircraft already. (See attached picture for our current panel)

do people recommend we just buy a refurbished DG? Or if we upgrade, what are your thoughts of the G5 vs G275? (Only looking to get one, not a dual setup). And with the G5 and G275, are there database updates? If so, anyone know the approximate cost?
Click to expand...
Uavionix AV30 is another option, though certainly not as capable as a G5 or GI275
 
asicer said:
Uavionix AV30 is another option, though certainly not as capable as a G5 or GI275
Click to expand...
So many AV30 user complaints when acting as a DG, "reportedly" fixed with software update. No external magnetometer. I'll pass.
 
Is that a Dakota?

The HSI in my plane failed not long after I got it. I went with the G5. The 275's hadn't been out long at the time, were about $1500 more, and I wasn't real excited about the idea of a tiny touchscreen. I also didn't want another device requiring a subscription. I'm still not clear as to whether the subscription is required. I'm guessing it's like the gtn and displays a message that the database is expired.

I paid 7500 installed for the g5. Most of the quotes were 10k. The 275's are more modern, have a bigger display, and can do a lot more. Probably better resale too. The g5 is smaller & lighter.

An hsi is well worth the money over a dg for ifr, but it's a big chunk of change.
 
bbarrett said:
The G5 will be more invasive panel mods, because it is square. It is also just an HSI, so no databases other than the magnetic field update every decade. The GI-275 is round, so less panel mods. It has a moving map HSI mode, so it requires database updates every 28 days. I think mine are $200/year more than the GTN650 alone, so not horrible.

Looking ahead, what will you do when the AI dies? The G5 will drive the heading mode input for legacy autopilots, but will not drive the attitude input. The GI275 will drive both the attitude and heading inputs. So G5 is cheaper now, but may not set you up for where you want to be on the next update.

There are many reports on the GI275 Facebook group of some of the 275 models being unobtanium right now, so your hands may be tied regardless. Worth asking supply questions to your installer.

i have a Century II and wanted to lose the vacuum system, so I went with the 275s. I love them so much I’m thinking about pulling the second CDI and putting in a third 275 as an MFD/CDI. A G500 level system is probably even better, but panel space, approvals, and the like made that a no-go. Sometimes having a weird plane sucks :).
Click to expand...

The G5 still installs in a round hole. Only the face is square.
 
mr_happyland said:
So many AV30 user complaints when acting as a DG, "reportedly" fixed with software update. No external magnetometer. I'll pass.
Click to expand...
I hear you but I still think there's still a niche where an AV30 makes sense, even IFR (assuming the DG issue really is fixed).
 
I vote is to just get the DG fixed. Fly IFR with the system you are used to for a while. You can always change out to an electronic like the G5, etc. later. The cost to fix the DG most likely will not be prohibitive. Try these folks: https://rudyaircraftinstruments.com/
 
Given that you have your instrument rating, an IFR aircraft, and a vacuum operated AI, I'd give some consideration to that AV30...if it lets you use the AI feature when it's programmed to be an HSI. Because with an IFR GPS and a couple of radios, I'd be more concerned with staying right side up than being off-courses. But then again, I'm a bit of a baby when it comes to risk management.
 
You will get very little benefit (and a lot of installation expense) from a single G5 as HSI compared to a replacement vacuum DG unless you are integrating it with an autopilot. With dual G5s and a compatible AP, you get GPSS roll steering and can rip out your #1 CDI and vacuum system. Two G5s are not a whole lot different in labor to install compared to one.
 
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I have a six month old Sigmatek 4000HR (with heading bug) coming out of my panel this week. This was purchased NEW from SigmaTek. $500 shipped. PM me if you are interested.
 
Like rusty said, the blue knob gives it away. I've got about 20 hours in a Dakota, fantastic airplane.

The really nice thing about the g5 in my plane is that it gave me gps steering, and when coupled with the gtn it does some other neat tricks like automatically setting the new course as it goes through the legs in your flight plan, both of which greatly reduce workload when flying approaches especially. Either one would also give you a backup AI.

As mentioned though, it's going to be at least 6 months to get in anywhere to get it done. You're going to have to get your DG overhauled to get back in the air. Then you can start planning/ saving for the next stage.
 
I’m running dual 275s.
I’d recommend Brian’s Sigmatec.
A 275 makes a nice HSI, moving map, gps info, backup gps, but you pay for it.
You don’t need to update the db, but it will ***** at you on startup.
 
Thanks for all these opinions. We are interested in the G5 maybe in the future but ended up inquiring about the wait time and it’s at least a few months out. Combined with the gtn 650 and the fact that we do have an external stratux in our plane that connects with our EFB, I don’t think there’s as much of a need for a third moving map that the G275 would feature. After reading all of your comments and hearing it’s a 6month wait for either of the upgrades, I think we are leaning to overhaul our own DG so we can get back up in the air. I really do appreciate all the input though. And thanks for telling me the easy way to identify a Dakota now xD
 
I have dual 275s, interfaced with a 530W and Piper Autocontrol III. A failing DG triggered this upgrade last summer and while the actual install ended up being a bit of a fiasco it's pretty nice now that the bugs are pretty well worked out.

Lot of nice features but not having to worry about a precessing DG is probably the nicest overall change.
 
I've got a good DG I took out of my plane. It precessed less than any DG I've ever used.

If you are interested?
 
My TC died and, when I looked in the logbooks, I realized it, the AI, and DG were all at least 20 years old. The AI and DG were starting to precess so I opted to swap them all out for overhauled units. Castleberry is down the road so I picked up overhauled units from them, had mine swapped out, and returned the cores. Very simple process. Also had the vacuum hoses and filters replaced. Total cost was around $3000 for all three, I believe, and left me with what I was familiar with.

Now I’m starting to think more about my aging Garmin 300XL certified GPS and am thinking about a 175. But it would need a new indicator. A basic one would be $3000. But a G5 would suffice. Which got me looking at other options.

Finally getting to my point, I’m coming to think the Aspen E5 is a really cool option. It would give me an HSI as the indicator, replace my vacuum gauges, and provide a GPSS for my old autopilot. At $6K, including the analog converter I’d need for my AP and to connect my MAC 1700, that’s not bad.

You may want to look at the Aspen E5, basically, depending on your longer-term plans.
 
I have the Aspen1000pro. I highly praise its capabilities and integration with many panel devices, including my legacy century autopilot, Stormscope, etc. While the E5 has a new screen and I believe the ability to be used without the vacuum system, there is a caveat regarding the autopilot integration. The HSI portion of the Aspen works tremendously well to get GPSS, but my Century 2B autopilot requires a data supplying AI. My Aspen AI could serve in this capacity if the 2.5k?(unless they throw it in these days) option is added on. I did not want to spend that at the time so I necessarily kept my vacuum system and vacuum AI both for its backup capability as well as required use to drive my autopilot.

Now the G5 AI does not even have the autopilot connectivity as a possibility( although the G5 HSI function does integrate), whereas the G275 does(I have no idea if that capability also costs extra to take advantage.)

Also, the AV30, while not having that capability yet, has been promising to have that in the future. So you need to consider what your autopilot requires when making decisions.
 
I fly both regularly. 275 is better.
 
MajorTurbulence said:
the G5 AI does not even have the autopilot connectivity as a possibility( although the G5 HSI function does integrate)..., whereas the G275 does(I have no idea if that capability also costs extra to take advantage.)
Click to expand...
It does cost extra.
 
If you have a legacy autopilot, definitely go for the 275. It will ultimately save money.
 
Rgbeard said:
I had my DG go out about a year ago.

I chose to call a shop and had a refurbished exchange sent out.

Zero avionics-shop time, very low bill to get it swapped out, less than $1,000 start-to-finish, and less than a week in total.
Click to expand...

this is what I did last yr. I need a new GPS, and will likely do a 275 then. But in the mean time I think my swap was less than $900.
 
N1120A said:
If you have a legacy autopilot, definitely go for the 275. It will ultimately save money.
Click to expand...
Disagree somewhat. Depending on the legacy autopilot, you'd save money in the long run by replacing the legacy autopilot at the same time you install the G5/GI275.
 
asicer said:
Disagree somewhat. Depending on the legacy autopilot, you'd save money in the long run by replacing the legacy autopilot at the same time you install the G5/GI275.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that point at all, but I'm speaking as if the person is deciding to save short term and spend later. The 275 has major advantages over the G5 if you want to keep a working KFC or something of the sort.
 
N1120A said:
I don't disagree with that point at all, but I'm speaking as if the person is deciding to save short term and spend later. The 275 has major advantages over the G5 if you want to keep a working KFC or something of the sort.
Click to expand...
The picture in the OP looks like a Century 21 with an NSD360. One quote I saw on a GI275 installation with a Century course+heading datum interface asked 80 hours labor plus $10k for the equipment (they wanted both units to have the AP interface; I don't have an install manual so I don't know if that's really the case). In contrast, a pair of G5's is about $8k installed and a TruTrak is about another $8k installed. That's saving in both the short term and the long term, plus another axis. Granted, a TruTrak is no GFC500 but it's still way better than a 1-axis Century.
 
Rgbeard said:
pretty simple process of deduction:

pa-28. Check.
Blue knob. Check.
Gear knob. Failed.

cuz we are all smart ‘n stuff! :)
Click to expand...
Also the fuel selector valve further delineates bewteen PA28-235 and 236.
 
Haven't some people upgraded the old style fuel knob to new? Maybe I'm imagining it, but I could have sworn I've seen some planes with the overhead trim and new style fuel selector.
 
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