Rental Pilot vs. Ownership

I thought I was soooooo smart about 15 years ago getting my MBA. I work most weekends and evenings and make what I thought was nice money and I can’t afford to own and definitely don’t have the time for week long GA trips.

I was so dumb.
 
I thought I was soooooo smart about 15 years ago getting my MBA. I work most weekends and evenings and make what I thought was nice money and I can’t afford to own and definitely don’t have the time for week long GA trips.

I was so dumb.

What's that cost of living in Chicago vs, say....not there? Also, how many kids/other hobbies etc...
 
Partnership can be a great way to access aircraft ownership or a freaking nightmare. So far my partnership has been the former.

So are clubs, which can be just like big partnerships. I've been in one that illustrated what not to do and my current one is great. I'm a big fan for new pilots to join a club. It will highlight the true costs of single ownership. I'll be doing single ownership in a couple years but I'm going in with my eyes open due to my club experience.
 
I thought I was soooooo smart about 15 years ago getting my MBA. I work most weekends and evenings and make what I thought was nice money and I can’t afford to own and definitely don’t have the time for week long GA trips.

I was so dumb.
Sounds like a change is in order, perhaps
 
So are clubs, which can be just like big partnerships. I've been in one that illustrated what not to do and my current one is great. I'm a big fan for new pilots to join a club. It will highlight the true costs of single ownership. I'll be doing single ownership in a couple years but I'm going in with my eyes open due to my club experience.
In many ways I would prefer a club, particularly if it had several different aircraft to access. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t.
 
I decided to sit down and create a chart of my flight time.

I created this because, although I know aircraft ownership is a big step in financial commitment, it certainly changes how much you fly. I thought showing it in a chart would be something helpful for some. If you are finding yourself "on the fence" of a rental vs. ownership decision, I simply ask you to take a look at my chart.

From 19xx-1995 I flew a lot with my dad in his Cessna 120, Cherokee 140, and later, his 1979 Turbo Lance. But he took the PIC time, and I simply gained tons of non-logged experience. I'm glad I had this time, as it carried me through the "dark years" where I flew ZERO hours. Each year has a particular reason for being zero. (2003, 2009, 2010)

In 1984 I had my first lesson, but began my PPL in earnest in December 1989.

In August of 2016 I began my Instrument rating, but had to take several months off for a medical issue, and finished it in March of 2017.

In September, 2018, we bought our own 1978 Turbo Lance, and it's been a transformation to be an aircraft owner vs. a rental pilot.

My summary opinion: As a rental pilot, you generally won't fly much. As an aircraft owner, you'll fly more than you would imagine.View attachment 104781


https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...et-roars-back?utm_source=fsb&utm_medium=email
 
My rental experience PIREP for today:
  • locked out of airport, had to call and get code (gate has never been closed)
  • airplane had brake fluid all over the outside engine compartment
  • brakes petals doing some vibration thing they'd never done before (plane just out of 100 hour inspection)
  • upon returning I was locked out of rental office
 
There are some good sides to renting, provided you can rent something worth flying. For one, it allows you to cut your fixed costs to almost zero if the weather is bad for months at a time, or you have surgery, or business drops off. I say “almost” because you should keep your renter’s insurance. For another, you don’t have to worry about the airplane rusting while you’re recovering from surgery or whatever. When new AD’s appear, they aren’t your problem.

The down sides are pretty obvious. I’ve been an owner for a long time. But I periodically consider selling at the top of this nutty market to join a club or some such. I worry, though, that it would be a big step toward the exit.
 
That is interesting that it is a step towards exit. It makes sense.

I’m 48 in two weeks. I’ve had my license since I was 19. I’ve ALWAYS dreamed of owning but never made it happen. I met my now wife a few months after getting my license and moved away to school. No money to fly. Started in public accounting. No money or time. Moved into finance, got married and pursued an MBA. More of the same.

Wife never loved it and definitely didn’t love the cost.

Saving for the wedding. Saving for the down payment. Saving to move. Saving for retirement. Saving for kids college.

Dreaming all the while of flying places in a plane. Never doing it.

Now with 3 kids in sports and an equally/more so demanding work schedule . . . I can’t tie up $100k+ in a hobby I can’t even take my fam of 5 with me on.

Partnerships seem pretty tough to come by right now (near me, in the range I’m willing to commit financially) and clubs have waiting lists a mile long.

Ironically, COVID made flying almost obtainable for me again time wise, and it turns out, for loads of other people too! I guess I’m late to pull the trigger.

I guess renting is that first step in or last out and for me indicates never being all in I guess.

Buying always strikes me as a huge commitment for the family. I work all week. I can’t really be gone to hang at the airport on the weekends. Maybe when the kids are gone.
 
That is interesting that it is a step towards exit. It makes sense.

I’m 48 in two weeks. I’ve had my license since I was 19. I’ve ALWAYS dreamed of owning but never made it happen. I met my now wife a few months after getting my license and moved away to school. No money to fly. Started in public accounting. No money or time. Moved into finance, got married and pursued an MBA. More of the same.

Wife never loved it and definitely didn’t love the cost.

Saving for the wedding. Saving for the down payment. Saving to move. Saving for retirement. Saving for kids college.

Dreaming all the while of flying places in a plane. Never doing it.

Now with 3 kids in sports and an equally/more so demanding work schedule . . . I can’t tie up $100k+ in a hobby I can’t even take my fam of 5 with me on.

Partnerships seem pretty tough to come by right now (near me, in the range I’m willing to commit financially) and clubs have waiting lists a mile long.

Ironically, COVID made flying almost obtainable for me again time wise, and it turns out, for loads of other people too! I guess I’m late to pull the trigger.

I guess renting is that first step in or last out and for me indicates never being all in I guess.

Buying always strikes me as a huge commitment for the family. I work all week. I can’t really be gone to hang at the airport on the weekends. Maybe when the kids are gone.


Sounds like it’s time to ditch the family. Where are your priorities, your sense of commitment? I’m sure your ex will be able to find some ground-hugging non-pilot.

:devil:
 
That is interesting that it is a step towards exit. It makes sense.

I’m 48 in two weeks. I’ve had my license since I was 19. I’ve ALWAYS dreamed of owning but never made it happen. I met my now wife a few months after getting my license and moved away to school. No money to fly. Started in public accounting. No money or time. Moved into finance, got married and pursued an MBA. More of the same.

Wife never loved it and definitely didn’t love the cost.

Saving for the wedding. Saving for the down payment. Saving to move. Saving for retirement. Saving for kids college.

Dreaming all the while of flying places in a plane. Never doing it.

Now with 3 kids in sports and an equally/more so demanding work schedule . . . I can’t tie up $100k+ in a hobby I can’t even take my fam of 5 with me on.

Partnerships seem pretty tough to come by right now (near me, in the range I’m willing to commit financially) and clubs have waiting lists a mile long.

Ironically, COVID made flying almost obtainable for me again time wise, and it turns out, for loads of other people too! I guess I’m late to pull the trigger.

I guess renting is that first step in or last out and for me indicates never being all in I guess.

Buying always strikes me as a huge commitment for the family. I work all week. I can’t really be gone to hang at the airport on the weekends. Maybe when the kids are gone.

I made sure any GF that was slanting towards permanent-resident status knew the rules beforehand.

Sounds as if you missed that step. Sucks to be you. ;-) (j/k, sorta)
 
For once I lucked out. I purchased my 182 6 years ago with cash. At the time I debated over financing it & keep my principle invested but since it has doubled in value in that six years I don't regret my decision. I only average around 50 hours a year but I'm also a full time CFI & get more than enough flying at my job.

Now if you would have financed the plane, and invested the cash... Where would you be today? I am guessing flying for free the last 6 years ;-) Borrowing money at 4% and investing at 10% makes more sense to me. Let the bank own a typically depreciating asset. Use your money for something that appreciates. Now today, I am scratching my head. Inflation may hit 10%, planes are appreciating.... I have no idea.
 
That is interesting that it is a step towards exit. It makes sense.

I’m 48 in two weeks. I’ve had my license since I was 19. I’ve ALWAYS dreamed of owning but never made it happen. I met my now wife a few months after getting my license and moved away to school. No money to fly. Started in public accounting. No money or time. Moved into finance, got married and pursued an MBA. More of the same.

Wife never loved it and definitely didn’t love the cost.

Saving for the wedding. Saving for the down payment. Saving to move. Saving for retirement. Saving for kids college.

Dreaming all the while of flying places in a plane. Never doing it.

Now with 3 kids in sports and an equally/more so demanding work schedule . . . I can’t tie up $100k+ in a hobby I can’t even take my fam of 5 with me on.

Partnerships seem pretty tough to come by right now (near me, in the range I’m willing to commit financially) and clubs have waiting lists a mile long.

Ironically, COVID made flying almost obtainable for me again time wise, and it turns out, for loads of other people too! I guess I’m late to pull the trigger.

I guess renting is that first step in or last out and for me indicates never being all in I guess.

Buying always strikes me as a huge commitment for the family. I work all week. I can’t really be gone to hang at the airport on the weekends. Maybe when the kids are gone.

I started flying when I was just a few years younger than you are. I was working full-time at-a very demanding job, but I somehow fit flying in. I have a supportive wife, which makes a huge difference. Looking back now, I am so glad I did it. It is expensive, but doesn’t have to be as expensive as a lot of folks want to make it. For me, the joy is in the flying. If you have the flying itch, you don’t have to mortgage your future to scratch it.
 
That is interesting that it is a step towards exit. It makes sense.

I’m 48 in two weeks. I’ve had my license since I was 19. I’ve ALWAYS dreamed of owning but never made it happen. I met my now wife a few months after getting my license and moved away to school. No money to fly. Started in public accounting. No money or time. Moved into finance, got married and pursued an MBA. More of the same.

Wife never loved it and definitely didn’t love the cost.

Saving for the wedding. Saving for the down payment. Saving to move. Saving for retirement. Saving for kids college.

Dreaming all the while of flying places in a plane. Never doing it.

Now with 3 kids in sports and an equally/more so demanding work schedule . . . I can’t tie up $100k+ in a hobby I can’t even take my fam of 5 with me on.

Partnerships seem pretty tough to come by right now (near me, in the range I’m willing to commit financially) and clubs have waiting lists a mile long.

Ironically, COVID made flying almost obtainable for me again time wise, and it turns out, for loads of other people too! I guess I’m late to pull the trigger.

I guess renting is that first step in or last out and for me indicates never being all in I guess.

Buying always strikes me as a huge commitment for the family. I work all week. I can’t really be gone to hang at the airport on the weekends. Maybe when the kids are gone.

2 thoughts-

Its been about a year since I sold. Today, I cant even imagine how I found the time to own, maintain, and fly as much as I did. Somehow, life swallowed up all that free time and more it seems. Its like getting a raise, somehow you still dont have any extra money at the end of the month. BUT, I will own again. I have a supportive wife, and the young squatter is almost at the age that she will hate me, so that makes skipping out easier.

Second, I have been watching the markets, both financial and the plane market, and worry about the first and I am astounded about the latter. I think in about 6 months, one of those will start to trend enough for me to make a decision on ownership. If things level off, maybe we can chat about a partnership if ARR or DPA are reasonable airports for you.
 
Saving for the wedding. Saving for the down payment. Saving to move. Saving for retirement. Saving for kids college.

Dreaming all the while of flying places in a plane. Never doing it.

Now with 3 kids in sports and an equally/more so demanding work schedule . . . I can’t tie up $100k+ in a hobby I can’t even take my fam of 5 with me on.

You are just too financially responsible. o_O

You could get a Cherokee Six / Saratoga / Lance. That would fit all 5.

I was in the same pickle. Two good incomes, but nice house, kids in private school, saving for their college, family trips, and our retirement. We flew, but in clubs and non-equity partnerships. After the kids were done with college and we downsized to a townhome I bought into a partnership (LLC - co-ownership).
 

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As a rental pilot, you generally won't fly much. As an aircraft owner, you'll fly more than you would imagine.
I'm on the wrong side of that equation haha. I fly about 80-130 hrs per year, at least the last 4-5 years. Plus One (and it's leaseback owners) have gotten a fair bit of cash from me. I'd love to own.. costs aside that invites a whole other type of commitment though

..some day
 
I'm on the wrong side of that equation haha. I fly about 80-130 hrs per year, at least the last 4-5 years. Plus One (and it's leaseback owners) have gotten a fair bit of cash from me. I'd love to own.. costs aside that invites a whole other type of commitment though

..some day
just go full send and buy an aerostar. Can't afford it? Live the American dream and enter a deep pit of debt and despair.
 
I'm on the wrong side of that equation haha. I fly about 80-130 hrs per year, at least the last 4-5 years. Plus One (and it's leaseback owners) have gotten a fair bit of cash from me. I'd love to own.. costs aside that invites a whole other type of commitment though

..some day
This is where I am. I have about 190 hours in the trailing 12 months (calendar year breaks down closer to 140)… and it’s all rental. Others have said they fly more when they become owners!?
 
I'm on the wrong side of that equation haha. I fly about 80-130 hrs per year, at least the last 4-5 years. Plus One (and it's leaseback owners) have gotten a fair bit of cash from me. I'd love to own.. costs aside that invites a whole other type of commitment though

..some day

Sounds like you're ready for a twin. C'mon, you know you want one :devil:
 
@Tantalum and @kaiser what types of trip and how do you rent?

Kaiser - you are in a club, right? And I know you take multi-state overnight trips. Is there much training in the club or do you take the more complex/less used for training planes?

Tantulum similar. I assume your not going up for an hour and back 70x. How do you schedule your trips and how/when do you go?
 
just go full send and buy an aerostar. Can't afford it? Live the American dream and enter a deep pit of debt and despair.
just go into a perpetual rotation of balance transfer cards with 0% into APRs

Sounds like you're ready for a twin. C'mon, you know you want one
I am.. I keep a few Trade-a-Plane tabs perpetually open as a constant reminder :(

@Tantalum and @kaiser what types of trip and how do you rent?
I rent from Plus One, it's a big non-traditional lease back type club in the San Diego area https://www.plusoneflyers.org/
..originally I had access to a pristine dry lease SR-22TN G1000 perspective.. typical trips were/still are 300-500 nm, some longer out to CO for skiing
..that plane got sold and I went to Plus One's SR22.. then I got my multi for the higher useful load and redundancy/safety (yes, twin>chute>single) and I've been flying either our Aztec or Duchess. The Duchess is nice, new paint, seats, new panel, four GI-275 with AP and Garmin GNS 355. My last few trips had four in the plane, so if there's a load need I go with the Aztec.. otherwise the Duchess flies nicer (and frankly is nicer overall)
 
@Tantalum and @kaiser what types of trip and how do you rent?

Kaiser - you are in a club, right? And I know you take multi-state overnight trips. Is there much training in the club or do you take the more complex/less used for training planes?

Tantulum similar. I assume your not going up for an hour and back 70x. How do you schedule your trips and how/when do you go?
I rent from a club (non-equity) and my flight school. The idea is minimizing issues with availability. For the club, each plane has a checkout process. It changes slightly based on your experience. I went in originally for the Piper Arrow / complex endorsement. The endorsement was as normal, but with 0 hours retract and 0 Arrow, club insurance wanted 10 hours dual. We also have 2 172s with different gauges (AV30 vs G5) so there’s a very small transition between each of our 172s as well.

I have started modeling how I currently use the planes so I have some data. Last year I flew 14.6k nm across 140 hours. On average I have 4x 800+ nm trips a year, half dozen-ish 300-600 nm trips (Rough River, Gaston’s, Mackinac Island because I can’t fly direct, etc). The rest is sub-200 nm and local. Below is my graphic for 2021 - trip segments (the number you see is segment ID) to nm flown. I hit (but did not exceed) my budget last year and felt I could have flown greater distances. (I think that means I need a faster plane)
8E55D05A-6F02-4157-9710-CAAE2AD493B2.jpeg
 
I rent from Plus One, it's a big non-traditional lease back type club in the San Diego area https://www.plusoneflyers.org/
..originally I had access to a pristine dry lease SR-22TN G1000 perspective.. typical trips were/still are 300-500 nm, some longer out to CO for skiing
..that plane got sold and I went to Plus One's SR22.. then I got my multi for the higher useful load and redundancy/safety (yes, twin>chute>single) and I've been flying either our Aztec or Duchess. The Duchess is nice, new paint, seats, new panel, four GI-275 with AP and Garmin GNS 355. My last few trips had four in the plane, so if there's a load need I go with the Aztec.. otherwise the Duchess flies nicer (and frankly is nicer overall)

Interestingly during that period where you dry leased my plane, I was the owner and you the renter but you probably flew it 2x as much as I did. So while it's true that in general you fly more as an owner than a renter, It's also clearly mission fit dependent! When my wife and I didn't have kids and lived within 800 NM of all of our family members, I was flying the wheelpants off that Cirrus. But then we moved to CA (trips back to family expanded to 1500+NM) had two babies (who don't like headsets much) and I just wasn't flying the CIrrus much. Now I'm back to renting but this time it's a jet that works for the whole family and I'm flying 150+ hours - which in terms of distance is the most flying I've done.
 
How and where does one rent a Cessna jet anyways? Or is the use of the term "rent" being used euphemistically here?

Serious question, I'd love to have access to something circa malibu/mirage rental setup for that 10% mission, especially now that it's becoming increasingly clear to me that the amount of family flying is going to be minimal going forward (wife going nursing job, there goes the weekend schedule up in flames...). Most of my desired rec flying is largely going to be satisfied by lone wolfing it in an RV, no sense in carrying the cost of a family tourer, let alone something pressurized and comfortable.

Every time I've semi seriously inquired about that category of airplane, there's always a catch. I'm sure renting a jet is no different, but I'm open to stand corrected.
 
So, seems the initial Russian game plan was classic AirLand Battle doctrine with an air assault/airport seizure at Homstomel Airport, home to the Antonov design bureau, Antonov Airlines, and the AN-225.

Essentially two UKR platoons shot down 3x Mi-24s in the initial assault and 18+ fixed wing troop transports aborted the mission. So the Russians said fûck it, send the conscripts in on the ground.

Essentially the main attack was thwarted and the reserves committed as the main attack. Since log trains were planned for airlift, the entire plan was FUBAR the morning of D-Day. Log trains to support a brigade-sized force via airlift now needed to support 5x divisions attacking on the three axes. Counting on sympathizers in the south was a mistake, also. The shadow/puppet leadership sympathetic to Russia did not reflect local loyalties.

Huge miscalculations and a large reason we abandoned AirLand Battle as a doctrine…too risky.

Probably paywalled: https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-...n-airport-battle-proved-him-wrong-11646343121

iTc2b9e.jpg

:D


ETA: Slava Ukraini. :rockon:
 
How and where does one rent a Cessna jet anyways? Or is the use of the term "rent" being used euphemistically here?

Serious question, I'd love to have access to something circa malibu/mirage rental setup for that 10% mission, especially now that it's becoming increasingly clear to me that the amount of family flying is going to be minimal going forward (wife going nursing job, there goes the weekend schedule up in flames...). Most of my desired rec flying is largely going to be satisfied by lone wolfing it in an RV, no sense in carrying the cost of a family tourer, let alone something pressurized and comfortable.

Every time I've semi seriously inquired about that category of airplane, there's always a catch. I'm sure renting a jet is no different, but I'm open to stand corrected.

It's definitely a unique program and not something you will find at every flight school. The company is Aero City Jets and they have 5-6 Mustangs (C510s) an M2, and a CJ3+. I have not flown the CJ3+ and mostly I started with the Mustangs but I am flying the M2 more these days. But it basically operates like any other rental program. There's an app to schedule flights/trips, you pay a dry rate based on the flight timer, buy your own fuel, and they have a 1 hour of flight time per day minimum which works for all of my trips. I use these planes to go all over the place - in the past couple months I have been to Missouri, Washington, Florida and southern Mexico. I buy 100 hour blocks at a time and they keep track (it gets a bit complicated when flying two types but there is a conversion).

I also did both of my type ratings with them and was able to go from no multi, no retract time to typed and solo signed off in the Mustang pretty quickly. They have a redbird sim for the Mustang too but I did my type in the airplane. Overall it's a great program and I like the flexibility but it is just a matter of time before I buy in again. I'm flying a lot more than I expected.
 
The charts inspired me to make one myself. Interesting to see for sure...but very sad. Lots of holes....some very long...with no flying. Just reflecting on the reasons.... some because of the issues renting...and others just "life"....new jobs, interstate moves, layoffs, kids, etc...
Through it all I have continues to read and dream... and once in a while fly.
 
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