PC 12 Down off of NC Coast

I wonder who was in the right seat? The pictures show one of the boys upfront. I don't know when that picture was taken. The flight path from the beginning doesn't look like autopilot flying. I know there was a second pilot onboard, but was he in the back? Hypothetically, say a pilot was hand flying to give the passenger a basic introduction of flying a plane. If the pilot were to have a medical emergency, it would leave the inexperienced and most likely panicked passenger to try and fly the airplane with autopilot disengaged. Not a good hypothetical situation, but it can happen. In my opinion, there are 2 scenarios that fit the flight path. Either mechanical issue or medical issue with autopilot disengaged.
 
That picture was taken very early in the day...before the first flight...posted to FB around 1059 am Sunday by one of the people killed in the crash. T

lsaway said:
I wonder who was in the right seat? The pictures show one of the boys upfront. I don't know when that picture was taken. The flight path from the beginning doesn't look like autopilot flying. I know there was a second pilot onboard, but was he in the back? Hypothetically, say a pilot was hand flying to give the passenger a basic introduction of flying a plane. If the pilot were to have a medical emergency, it would leave the inexperienced and most likely panicked passenger to try and fly the airplane with autopilot disengaged. Not a good hypothetical situation, but it can happen. In my opinion, there are 2 scenarios that fit the flight path. Either mechanical issue or medical issue with autopilot disengaged.
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Notrub said:
Can a normal person overcome the trim in this airplane? Breaker position to left seat? Flown there(KMRH) many times its always been exciting weather.
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Direct from Pilatus
 

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geezer said:
They were more than 10 miles out at 1700 feet altitude. The regs call for raft and vests if outside engine out glide to land distance while carrying passengers for hire. If the conditions were VFR, they could have seen the ocean below them for 5 or more minutes, with the angle they were traveling when they crossed the coast.
They should have been VFR, since they were not talking to any controllers, evident from the lack of clear knowledge of where they were, and any information of navigational intentions.

The sudden climb may have resulted from the realization that they were over the ocean, and safety required higher. Climbing into the clouds may have then resulted in loss of control.

Flying along the beach at a thousand feet or less is fun in good weather, and safe if within a mile of the beach. 10 miles out is not safe.
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The regs call for nothing of the type for a Part 91 flight.

Salty said:
Maybe the life raft was deployed in the cabin causing loss of control?
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Lmao
 
The NTSB preliminary is attached. My read points to a potential for pilot incapacitation based on the sketchy communications...

They did wander into an active Restricted Area that had to be shut down...
 

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Or just a pilot who expected the restricted area to be cold because the weather was crappy.
 
You didn't read the report I see...

At 1338, the controller advised the pilot that nearby restricted
airspace was active, and the pilot confirmed that they would remain clear of the airspace and
fly to the east. At 1341, the controller called the pilot and indicated that they were about to
enter the restricted airspace.

Dave Theisen said:
Or just a pilot who expected the restricted area to be cold because the weather was crappy.
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I read the report. Nothing in there led me to pilot incapacitation. More like a pilot who instead of flying the route around the restricted area as he had done on previous flights, headed straight towards his destination because he assumed it was cold. Once he was told it was active he made the sharp turn to get out of it, but by now he is clearly distracted and off his game, probably compounded by the distraction of his student pilot son in the other seat.

Or most likely, both of us are deadass wrong.
 
Or he was told a full three minutes before he entered the space...and kept going...

Who knows what happened...

I DO know that he was alerted that the R area was hot...so his expectation that it was cold was changed...he then proceeded more than three minutes at 250ish kts GS...12ish NM in the same direction...went NORDO for 6 or so minutes then don't fly the airplane as directed...

That 'student pilot' must have been one helluva distraction.

Dave Theisen said:
Once he was told it was active he made the sharp turn to get out of it.
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Not saying it’s a great plan, but once in the air, fly at 500’ over the water to better weather. Most likely one direction within range would lead to better conditions.
 
The pilot was also an IA. I knew the pilot. Extremely sad.
 
MarcoDA40 said:
The pilot was also an IA. I knew the pilot. Extremely sad.
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It’s was all wrong from the beginning, Was 1200 Overcast at MRH at departure, You don’t fly this aircraft single pilot with 7 other innocent souls unless you can handle it. It wasn’t a joy ride putting his son in right seat. If nothing else ? Go IFR let the AP handle it. Filed VFR 3500 and it was marginal at best. Too much airplane and not enough time in it. All the guessing and dancing around.The experienced pilots here know the issue. Supposedly the plane is in bottom of ocean, nose down 8-10 feet in the bottom of ocean floor. Engine is in fuselage, Going thru 55 feet of water too. That took some serious airspeed at impact. Wasn’t a stall, Power on straight in decent, Runaway Trim, research it, then comment. IA, Commercial, IFR whatever,, Was poor judgement and responsibility decisions and now 7 lives plus his own. This wasn’t a 67 year old single pilot flight. Needed a co pilot more than capable of flying this plane. Facts are there. The innocent people are gone.
 
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Considering this accident I was surprised to read at the end of the preliminary: "The NTSB did not travel to the scene of this accident."
 
Daleandee said:
Considering this accident I was surprised to read at the end of the preliminary: "The NTSB did not travel to the scene of this accident."
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It was about 65 feet underwater so that may have been difficult. Not sure how literal they are with that phrase..
 
Daleandee said:
"The NTSB did not travel to the scene of this accident."
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FYI: if there is no tangible accident site the NTSB can and does defer to local authorities until there is physical evidence to review. Same with other types of accidents or incidents. Unless that is it is considered a "major" accident or involves persons of public stature then they usually send a Go Team or the IIC. Regardless, every aviation accident is assigned to an NTSB IIC.
 
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Bell206 said:
FYI: if there is no tangible accident site the NTSB can and does defer to local authorities until there is physical evidence to review. Same with other types of accidents or incidents. Unless that is it is considered a "major" accident or involves persons of public stature then they usually send a Go Team or the IIRC. Regardless, every aviation accident is assigned to an NTSB IIRC.
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Yeah I get it. Just seems that by the time the preliminary was done that someone from the NTSB would have been there to review whatever evidence could be found. I have known them to investigate accidents that had no loss of life and did not make nearly the headlines seen here. I assumed (I know) given the magnitude of this tragedy that they would have been all over it to find out all they could early on.
 
Daleandee said:
Just seems that by the time the preliminary was done that someone from the NTSB would have been there to review whatever evidence could be found.
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That report note just means they weren't in the boat at the scene. As I recall, there is a requirement to stipulate whether the NTSB attended the physical accident site. The IIC could have been at the place (and probably was) where the wreckage was brought to. Have seen other actual sites the IIC didn't travel to for various reasons on similar fatal accidents like the GOM, mountain tops, etc.
 
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What in the heck is that last column supposed to mean?


Killed in the crash were:

  • Ernest “Teen” Rawls, 67, Greenville, pilot
  • Jeffrey Rawls, 28, Greenville
  • Stephanie Fulcher, 42, Sea Level
  • Jonathan “Kole” McInnis, 15, Sea Level
  • Douglas “Hunter” Parks, 45, Sea Level
  • Noah Styron, 15, Cedar Island
  • Michael “Daily” Shepherd, 15, Atlantic
  • Jacob “Jake” Taylor, 16, Atlantic
 
Salty said:
What in the heck is that last column supposed to mean?


Killed in the crash were:

  • Ernest “Teen” Rawls, 67, Greenville, pilot
  • Jeffrey Rawls, 28, Greenville
  • Stephanie Fulcher, 42, Sea Level
  • Jonathan “Kole” McInnis, 15, Sea Level
  • Douglas “Hunter” Parks, 45, Sea Level
  • Noah Styron, 15, Cedar Island
  • Michael “Daily” Shepherd, 15, Atlantic
  • Jacob “Jake” Taylor, 16, Atlantic
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Why did you not highlight the others?
What do the others mean?
Same for the highlighted. Take a guess, then I’ll tell you.
 
4RNB said:
Why did you not highlight the others?
What do the others mean?
Same for the highlighted. Take a guess, then I’ll tell you.
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So, some bodies were found in Greenville? Makes no sense. In any case it’s a horrible thing to publish in an article like that.
 
Salty said:
So, some bodies were found in Greenville? Makes no sense. In any case it’s a horrible thing to publish in an article like that.
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No, suspect it is where they lived.
There are towns named sea level and atlantic
Odd names around here…

Conetoe being another one
 
4RNB said:
No, suspect it is where they lived.
There are towns named sea level and atlantic
Odd names around here…

Conetoe being another one
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Ok, that makes sense. Ironic in a sad way.
 
4RNB said:
No, suspect it is where they lived.
There are towns named sea level and atlantic
Odd names around here…
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If I recall correctly, the town of Sealevel (about 5 miles from Atlantic) is one word
 
4RNB said:
No, suspect it is where they lived.
There are towns named sea level and atlantic
Odd names around here…

Conetoe being another one
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Not to mention Waves, Topsail, or Surf City (only mention that one because I never surfed there).
 
The transcript and a ton of other information is available using NTSB's CAROL system, searching for "ERA22LA120", and selecting "Docket" from the results.

ETA: Don't know if this will last, but here's a direct link to the docket page and link to the ATC transcript.
Also note the CVR Factual has the transcript of intra-cockpit comms as well.

Last edit: It's not for the faint hearted.

Nauga,
from the source
 
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Got to the point where they were trying to enter cigor, unsure why they didn't load their flight plan on the ground to begin with they were already flustered by the time they needed to enter the approach. They were in a hurry I guess. Sometimes you fall behind. All I could think while reading was a simple request from the pilot, " approach, we're having an issue with our gps, we'd like some delay vectors for 5 minutes or so until we get it straightened out." They probably would have figured it out. I'll read the rest later, but things can snowball unless you take definitive steps to stop it.
 
PaulS said:
Got to the point where they were trying to enter cigor, unsure why they didn't load their flight plan on the ground to begin with they were already flustered by the time they needed to enter the approach. They were in a hurry I guess. Sometimes you fall behind. All I could think while reading was a simple request from the pilot, " approach, we're having an issue with our gps, we'd like some delay vectors for 5 minutes or so until we get it straightened out." They probably would have figured it out. I'll read the rest later, but things can snowball unless you take definitive steps to stop it.
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Fabulous suggestion and great to keep in mind should we ever fall into the same situation!
 
Doering said:
Fabulous suggestion and great to keep in mind should we ever fall into the same situation!
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I'd love to take credit for it but it was taught to me by a really great instructor. Another is never do anything in aviation (non emergency anyway) unless you are ready to do it. This especially applies to flying an instrument plan. The controllers couldn't care less if you need extra time, the last thing they want is to be a contributing factor to an incident by denying you. I've had zero repercussions when I've done it. Only a few times I've been asked if I was ready, those times I just needed a little bit more, I'd either get an "ok" or worst a new vector to keep me where they needed me.
 
They were on Flight Following, correct?? VMC, correct? Seems like they forgot to fly the a/c while screwing with the navigator (without the proficiency in operating the said navigator that should have been obtained long before contemplating flight). In VMC, look out the frickin windows and fly the plane. Reading the VCR transcript made my blood boil.
 
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