Cross Country Flight

Dan Gordon

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I live in the Boston area and am looking to purchase a Piper Cherokee 140 (with power flow) from the LA area. I would like to do the flight myself with a CFI friend of mine. I'm wondering how long it would take to fly this route. I'm guesstimating 27 hours flight time, thereabouts. Break it up over 4 days...

Has anyone done this and in this slow plane, how painful was it? Or is it manageable and fun?
 
I live in the Boston area and am looking to purchase a Piper Cherokee 140 (with power flow) from the LA area. I would like to do the flight myself with a CFI friend of mine. I'm wondering how long it would take to fly this route. I'm guesstimating 27 hours flight time, thereabouts. Break it up over 4 days...
Looks like 2270nm great circle distance or 2400nm if you go south around the mountains. How slow was your planned cruise speed? Keep in mind that going west to east you'll probably have prevailing tailwinds.
 
IMO with a distance of 2270nm or more, 27hrs of loggable time seems reasonable, 4 days also seems reasonable as the CFI is limited to 8hrs of instruction per day assuming he is providing instruction. If you are a rated pilot then you could fly more than 8 hours per day. Three, 3-4 hour legs per day could be pretty reasonable.

Brian
CFIIG
 
I think it would be epic, if you like your CFII.
I like the CFI today...who knows about tomorrow! I'm finishing up my ppl and will get the plane in the late Spring. I think it will be fun and a good way to get experience flying across different terrain and wind patterns than coastal New England.
 
Looks like 2270nm great circle distance or 2400nm if you go south around the mountains. How slow was your planned cruise speed? Keep in mind that going west to east you'll probably have prevailing tailwinds.
Looks like 2270nm great circle distance or 2400nm if you go south around the mountains. How slow was your planned cruise speed? Keep in mind that going west to east you'll probably have prevailing tailwinds.

Hope to be able to maintain at least 115 knots — tailwind is our friend and we should be able to avg more. But I’m being conservative.
 
I did my first big trip in my Decathlon last summer for Oshkosh. FL - WI - CO - FL. Found that my personal limit was 3 legs of 3 hours each. Based on that, I think you could do it in 3 days, weather dependent. But of course WX never cooperates, so plan at least one flex day, if not more.

I found weather comfort was a key factor. Doing the trip in the middle of summer really sucked, even up north, and contributed greatly to fatigue and dehydration.

Make sure you bring a cooler with plenty of beverages and snacks, and stock up each night.
 
I did my first big trip in my Decathlon last summer for Oshkosh. FL - WI - CO - FL. Found that my personal limit was 3 legs of 3 hours each. Based on that, I think you could do it in 3 days, weather dependent. But of course WX never cooperates, so plan at least one flex day, if not more.

I found weather comfort was a key factor. Doing the trip in the middle of summer really sucked, even up north, and contributed greatly to fatigue and dehydration.

Make sure you bring a cooler with plenty of beverages and snacks, and stock up each night.

Good advice. Hydration and protein bars are a must. I’m looking to make the trip in April/May…
 
No thanks. XC in a PA 140 is not fun. To slow, poor climb, and the turbulence beats ya up.
 
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Hope to be able to maintain at least 115 knots — tailwind is our friend and we should be able to avg more. But I’m being conservative.
I generally add about 0.5hr per leg for things like run-up, taxi, climb, etc. So let's say you make 105kts ground speed over the 2400nm (115kts in a PA28-140 sounds a bit ambitious), that's 23 hours. If you do 3 hour legs, that's 8 legs or 4 additional hours on top of the 23 hours along the track. So I'd say your original 27 hours estimate sounds about right.
 
I generally add about 0.5hr per leg for things like run-up, taxi, climb, etc. So let's say you make 105kts ground speed over the 2400nm (115kts in a PA28-140 sounds a bit ambitious), that's 23 hours. If you do 3 hour legs, that's 8 legs or 4 additional hours on top of the 23 hours along the track. So I'd say your original 27 hours estimate sounds about right.


Makes perfect sense. Thanks.
 
I've done three round trips from Northern California to Jacksonville, Florida; once in a C150F and twice in a 145hp O-300-C powered C172D. They were all solo, and two were hand flown. The third was after I installed an STEC 30 autopilot with altitude hold in the 172. All three trips were fun, but the autopilot trip was less stressful. Every one was in the spring or summer and each direction done in three days (they were L O N G days in the 150). :D
 
I generally add about 0.5hr per leg for things like run-up, taxi, climb, etc. So let's say you make 105kts ground speed over the 2400nm (115kts in a PA28-140 sounds a bit ambitious), that's 23 hours. If you do 3 hour legs, that's 8 legs or 4 additional hours on top of the 23 hours along the track. So I'd say your original 27 hours estimate sounds about right.

Do you eat, use the restroom, or ever have weather delay? Each 3 hour leg will cost you an hour on the ground minimum between legs + .3 for start, taxi, and runup.
 
No thanks. XC in a PA 140 is not fun.
I’ve flown as long and longer distances than this in an Archer. My Archer is probably 25 knots faster and has an autopilot, but if you’re motivated, I can see it being plenty of fun. IMO, You can travel just fine in just about anything as long as you have enough range and outs and account for personal needs. Should be a blast and you will learn a lot.
 
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Weather should dictate how far you travel, you may need to just follow a front as it travels eastbound.
 
I would personally be excited to have such a trip in my immediate future, and would be planning away right now. That would add a couple of the western most states to my log book, and some low, slow sightseeing over country that I have seen from commercial airliners, cars, and trains.

Small hints about a flex day are an understatement. Weather on that many days will have at least one bad day.

Even if your instructor is instrument rated, there will be a day that is not suitable for a Piper 140. That is the thunderstorm and spring rain time of year. The long term forecast when you buy your airline tickets on the East coast will not be the weather you fly in. Wind from 3/4ths of the compass are net headwinds, as Ed Haywood advised. 800 hours of cross country has taught me the same.

Remember, weather travels from the West to East, if you are behind a front, you cannot progress any faster than it does. That is a trade off for the predominately easterly flow of air that provides a tail wind for your trip.

With a new to you plane, you are likely to find problems that need to be addressed enroute, and as anyone who is following mechanical complaints here, they often can not be corrected in the same day found.

When time is short, poor choices are made, so planning for a 9 day week, and being pleasantly surprised at 3 days is the way to go.

Now, after all that negativity, I am envious of your proposed adventure. The time of year and states that you will cover will be unforgettable, as long as you are not in a time constraint. My long days are in 3 hour sections, and up to 3 per day works. Two people in a dual control plane is ideal, and makes the long days go smoother, less fatigue. Fuel stops take a minimum of half an hour.

Take a camera, and take a lot of pictures. I have flown over most of the states east of the Rockies, and particularly in the spring, all are interesting, most are beautiful.

In the early part of the trip, plan relatively large airports, so there will be repair facilities on the field (Pessimism pays when flying a new to you plane). After the "New" wears of your used plane, and you have some hours on it, using smaller airports in the planning is just fine.

Get east of the Rockies, then plot the great circle route, and keep as close to it as you can, but do not consider it as a requirement, just a time saver. Weather and most suitable airports are the more important deciding factors for a vacation such as this.

Deviate for the most interesting places to fly across, the Meteor Crater is an example of a landmark best seen from the air.

Starting with plenty of time AVAILABLE is the key to this trip being memorable in a positive way.
 
I have done the Seattle to savannah and back trip a few times in different aircraft and the super slow trips took between four and seven days.

Slow airplanes give you lots of choices for stopovers and picking some good places to stop, whereas fast airplanes allow you to stick to FBOs at bigger airports.

If you are not in a hurry, the slow trips are more fun IMHO.
 
Sounds like fun to me. I would worry about the vertical distance more than the horizontal part, until you get past the mountains.
 
I would personally be excited to have such a trip in my immediate future, and would be planning away right now. That would add a couple of the western most states to my log book, and some low, slow sightseeing over country that I have seen from commercial airliners, cars, and trains.


Small hints about a flex day are an understatement. Weather on that many days will have at least one bad day.

Even if your instructor is instrument rated, there will be a day that is not suitable for a Piper 140. That is the thunderstorm and spring rain time of year. The long term forecast when you buy your airline tickets on the East coast will not be the weather you fly in. Wind from 3/4ths of the compass are net headwinds, as Ed Haywood advised. 800 hours of cross country has taught me the same.

Remember, weather travels from the West to East, if you are behind a front, you cannot progress any faster than it does. That is a trade off for the predominately easterly flow of air that provides a tail wind for your trip.

With a new to you plane, you are likely to find problems that need to be addressed enroute, and as anyone who is following mechanical complaints here, they often can not be corrected in the same day found.

When time is short, poor choices are made, so planning for a 9 day week, and being pleasantly surprised at 3 days is the way to go.

Now, after all that negativity, I am envious of your proposed adventure. The time of year and states that you will cover will be unforgettable, as long as you are not in a time constraint. My long days are in 3 hour sections, and up to 3 per day works. Two people in a dual control plane is ideal, and makes the long days go smoother, less fatigue. Fuel stops take a minimum of half an hour.

Take a camera, and take a lot of pictures. I have flown over most of the states east of the Rockies, and particularly in the spring, all are interesting, most are beautiful.

In the early part of the trip, plan relatively large airports, so there will be repair facilities on the field (Pessimism pays when flying a new to you plane). After the "New" wears of your used plane, and you have some hours on it, using smaller airports in the planning is just fine.

Get east of the Rockies, then plot the great circle route, and keep as close to it as you can, but do not consider it as a requirement, just a time saver. Weather and most suitable airports are the more important deciding factors for a vacation such as this.

Deviate for the most interesting places to fly across, the Meteor Crater is an example of a landmark best seen from the air.

Starting with plenty of time AVAILABLE is the key to this trip being memorable in a positive way.
 
Good advice and I’m glad you had the experience. I will most likely make this type of trip once across country in my own machine. We plan on spending planned downtime site seeing — and I’m sure unplanned time site seeing. We will plan a full seven days and weather permitting, we hope it will be enough.
 
Has anyone done this and in this slow plane, how painful was it? Or is it manageable and fun?
Dan, I own a Cherokee and would not hesitate to fly it anywhere except over the highest parts of the Rockies. I would definitely opt for the southern route over the lower elevations. Density altitude will not be your friend out there when the weather is warm. I have totally refurbished my plane including a full engine overhaul about 250 hours ago and I work with my mechanic to perform the annual inspections each year. I imagine I know my plane better than most pilots due to the restoration and annual inspections. While I would be comfortable flying my plane anywhere, I think I would be a little apprehensive about flying a plane that I don’t know that far unless I did a pre-buy inspection side by side with the mechanic. I would want to learn everything I could about the plane before setting out on a trip that long and before committing to purchasing the plane.

As others have suggested, I would limit my flight legs to 3 hours or less. After three hours in my plane I’m ready to stretch my legs, take a bathroom break and top off my fuel. For pre-flight planning I use 100 knots and 10 gph in my WingX app. Both of those numbers are conservative and have served me well for planning purposes. For a three hour flight I will typically burn about 25 gallons but prefer using the conservative 10 gph when flight planning.

Unless you are just wanting to make this flight for the adventure aspect, I would think you should be able to find a good Cherokee closer to home that you could get more familiar with before making the purchase. With the amount of money you will spend flying out to LA and ferrying the plane back to Boston, you could put that money into upgrades to the airplane you purchase closer to home and maybe have a little nicer plane. I bought my plane from a guy one hour drive from me. I was able to go down multiple times to fly and inspect the plane so I knew exactly what I was getting.

I really enjoy my Cherokee. I’m flying down to St Simons (KSSI) in the morning to meet up with three other pilot friends to eat seafood for lunch.

Best wishes and good luck with whatever you decide to do. Just weigh your options and make a sound informed decision.
 
Good advice and I’m glad you had the experience. I will most likely make this type of trip once across country in my own machine. We plan on spending planned downtime site seeing — and I’m sure unplanned time site seeing. We will plan a full seven days and weather permitting, we hope it will be enough.

A week of solid flying. Sounds like a dream. Start a thread and upload pictures as you go!!

If it’s not installed, get an ADSB receiver, an iPad, and big battery.. oh and restroom relief bags. Sometimes you just need to tinkle.
 
A week of solid flying. Sounds like a dream. Start a thread and upload pictures as you go!!

If it’s not installed, get an ADSB receiver, an iPad, and big battery.. oh and restroom relief bags. Sometimes you just need to tinkle.
 
The plane has adsb, and I will purchase sentry for ForeFlight. The plane is current for IFR flying, has been owned by the same person for around 20 years and I’ve read through all the logs — the history is complete. Engine has about 1k hours on it since rebuild and about 3300 hours on the frame. It’s never been used as a trainer.

The same mechanic has looked after it for 15 years and he has recommended a few different mechanics to do the pre-buy inspection. The wing spars have been checked and all AD’s done. On paper, the plane looks good. Hopefully the pre-buy checks out with no major issues. It’s annual is good through October…
 
Sometimes a deal just feels good, that makes sense. But I'd take the advice of someone else here, and fly out the mechanic I'd be using for regular maintenance to take a look. That could save a lot of grief in the long run, not to mention that it would probably set the relationship with your mechanic up to a great start, as a partner. If you use the current mechanics recommendation, they could be fine, but there's always an incentive to give any benefit of doubt to the other local guy.
 
Sounds like it would be an amazing learning experience for a student pilot. You will learn far more than those staying in the pattern and checking off the boxes for their private pilot cert.
 
I did FL to CA in two and half days in a 182 as a wet behind the eras PPL and it was a confidence booster trip to say the least...could have probably done it in two but we wanted to stay the night in Vegas and weather at home was iffy that night, 21 hours flying time...but yeah, I would budget 4 days at least. We got lucky even though we were dodging a lot of weather.

Set a plan but be flexible. Flight planned each and every leg but rarely did we land at our planned destination.

We always stopped for meals both also packed some snacks, drinks, and PB&J which was a life saver at times to keep the blood sugar up.

Most fun part was landing at random podunk airports, asking the ol war vet running the place for the best local eats and taking the beater crew cars for a bite then right back at it!
 
Do you eat, use the restroom,
Yes, takes about 10 minutes.
or ever have weather delay?
Rarely. I guess I'm lucky in that regard.
Each 3 hour leg will cost you an hour on the ground minimum between legs + .3 for start, taxi, and runup.
Outside of a weather delay, I'm usually a lot less than an hour on the ground when I'm trying to get someplace.
 
In my Warrior (-161), I did a 6600 nm grand tour from Seattle to LA, up across the Grand Canyon, then onto Knoxville to South Florida, around the gulf and back up the west coast. Solo VFR with no autopilot. Many weather holds. Wrote it up, if you're interested. The course from southern California to Knoxville may be the most applicable to your journey. https://www.demonick.com/flying/S43-DKX-SUA-S43/index.html

Plan EVERYTHING, and expect to deviate.
3-4 hours legs, depending on bladders and fuel capacity. I tend to leave much larger fuel reserves than required.
Know where your alternate airports (ahead and behind) are at all times. You may find yourself needing to duck weather.
8 hours flying in a spamcan, particularly without an autopilot is tiring. Solo, I could stretch out into the passenger well. With a passenger you'll be trapped in your well.

Hope to be able to maintain at least 115 knots — tailwind is our friend and we should be able to avg more. But I’m being conservative.
Don't count on it. My bet is your average will be closer to 100 kts.

No thanks. XC in a PA 140 is not fun. To slow, poor climb, and the turbulence beats ya up.
No sense of adventure. The journey is the reward, blah, blah, blah.

I'm thinking of another continental trip this summer or next.
 
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In my Warrior (-161), I did a 6600 nm grand tour from Seattle to LA, up across the Grand Canyon, then onto Knoxville to South Florida, around the gulf and back up the west coast. Solo with no autopilot. Many weather holds. Wrote it up, if you're interested. The course from southern California to Knoxville may be the most applicable to your journey. https://www.demonick.com/flying/S43-DKX-SUA-S43/index.html

Plan EVERYTHING, and expect to deviate.
3-4 hours legs, depending on bladders and fuel capacity. I tend to leave much larger fuel reserves than required.
Know where your alternate airports (ahead and behind) are at all times. You may find yourself needing to duck weather.
8 hours flying in a spamcan, particularly without an autopilot is tiring. Solo, I could stretch out into the passenger well. With a passenger you'll be trapped in your well.


Don't count on it. My bet is your average will be closer to 100 kts.


No sense of adventure. The journey is the reward, blah, blah, blah.

I'm thinking of another continental trip this summer or next.
I will read your journey link, thanks for sharing.
 
Best I’ve done in a “slow” plane was 970nm from Tampa to Chicago in a 172M (150 or 160 hp?). It was VFR with lots of deviations for storms. I got her up to 11.5 for one segment. I did it in a day in 11.3 hrs. I have to say it was about the most fun I’ve ever had. Low and slow, seeing the country. I had a few days to do this. I ended up having 3 stops but felt refreshed and energized after each stop.

If I could do it again, I’d go slower. I’m sure I missed out on loads of adventures in the middle.

With regards to mountain flying, my personal minimums is 200hp (except for DA40-180) - so I vote for using the southern route.

Enjoy and report back!!
 
I fly back and forth from Phoenix (GYR) to St. Louis (CPS) and now plan Memphis (OLV) with some frequency.

With a Cherokee 140 plan to take the Southern route to keep you out of the highest terrain. El Paso is a great town with friendly people and makes a great overnight.
 
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