Where to retire?

BladeSlap said:
Just part of being a good person and having a good life, moving somewhere where you know your values will make friction, let alone voting those values, why not just stay in a place, or move to another place, that has the same values as you?
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Maybe people move from one state to another for reasons other than values. Like a nicer climate. Or to be closer to family. Or a better job opportunity. Maybe these people move, take their values with them, but are intelligent enough and and have good enough morals that they are able to live alongside other people who may not share the same values.

@Morgan3820 said "So it’s OK then if I move to San Diego and start a rifle range in my backyard because if I’m not allowed to do that well that’s exclusionary to my values.?" Violating state law is the same as not sharing values as other people in the state.
 
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Deelee said:
Maybe people move from one state to another for reasons other than values. Like a nicer climate. Or to be closer to family. Or a better job opportunity. Maybe these people move, take their values with them, but are intelligent enough and and have good enough morals that they are able to live alongside other people who may not share the same values.

@Morgan3820 said "So it’s OK then if I move to San Diego and start a rifle range in my backyard because if I’m not allowed to do that well that’s exclusionary to my values.?" Probably the dumbest thing I have read on the internet all day. Yeah. Violating state law is the same as not sharing values as other people in the state... How you came up with this is making me scratch my head, to be honest.
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Yeah but see where I live I can have a rifle range in my backyard. The people that already live here are fine with me having a rifle range in my backyard. This is why I live here.
Unfortunately, Some people moving here would want to change that. That is the perspective that you fail to grasp.
 
EdFred said:
What does an HOA have to do with Illinois having pretty high property tax PLUS an income tax vs Texas not having income tax? Illinois is 9th, Texas is 30th. Pretty sure my answer was right. Illinois pounds ya twice, Texas once.
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It doesn’t, there’s two separate thoughts in my post. The first thought is that overall tax burden, not what taxes are implemented is what matters. My overall tax burden living in Texas without an income tax is higher than it was living in CO with an income tax and owning pretty much equivalently valued homes for both market and assessed values.

The second thought is your example of municipal regulations. In many places in Texas you’re trading a municipal regulation for a private entity’s regulation.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Yeah but see where I live I can have a rifle range in my backyard
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Excellent. Would be nice to have at least a 100 yd range in my back yard. Not nice enough for me to move away to get one, though. So you value having a range in your backyard. Great. Some people may value living in a warmer climate. Or they may value moving south for a job opportunity. So they move to a place like Florida or Texas. For the things they value, too.

Morgan3820 said:
Some people moving here would want to change that. That is the perspective that you fail to grasp.
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Oh no. I grasp that concept fully and completely. That's the bedrock this country was built on. Being able to democratically and peacefully change things. You want a rifle range in California? Move there. Get support for your cause. Change the law. Nothing stopping you if you really want to try. Won't happen, but you are within your rights as an American to try. Don't like the way things are going in your state because of all these northern invaders moving in? Keep voting for the people who support your values to keep the laws as you like them. As a patriotic, red-blooded 'Murican I support that 100%.
 
It's really kind of funny to read the discussion about taxes. Proper tax avoidance is much more nuanced, and should take into account your investment strategies.
As a general rule, when you want to avoid income taxes is when you are working. In retirement, your income usually comes down significantly or is a mix of untaxed income (e.g. Roth).
I lived in TN for two years, I calculated my total taxes in TN compared to what I was making in MD. If I was retired, my taxes would have gone up, between higher property taxes and higher sales taxes. Basically i would have been better off finding a rural place in MD than moving to TN (from a financial perspective).

Tim
 
TCABM said:
It doesn’t, there’s two separate thoughts in my post. The first thought is that overall tax burden, not what taxes are implemented is what matters. My overall tax burden living in Texas without an income tax is higher than it was living in CO with an income tax and owning pretty much equivalently valued homes for both market and assessed values.

The second thought is your example of municipal regulations. In many places in Texas you’re trading a municipal regulation for a private entity’s regulation.
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Gotcha, but is some of that prop tax burden also municipalty specific? If I live 1 mile north my property taxes would be higher. Are prop taxes higher in Southlake vs....Bordger?
 
tspear said:
It's really kind of funny to read the discussion about taxes. Proper tax avoidance is much more nuanced, and should take into account your investment strategies.
As a general rule, when you want to avoid income taxes is when you are working. In retirement, your income usually comes down significantly or is a mix of untaxed income (e.g. Roth).
I lived in TN for two years, I calculated my total taxes in TN compared to what I was making in MD. If I was retired, my taxes would have gone up, between higher property taxes and higher sales taxes. Basically i would have been better off finding a rural place in MD than moving to TN (from a financial perspective).

Tim
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MD is out for a great many reasons.
 
EdFred said:
MD is out for a great many reasons.
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That is fine. My point was look at the total tax structure, with an eye toward what will be your retirement income structure. For most retires, avoiding income tax actually will raise their total taxes paid compared to a state with an income tax.

Tim
 
tspear said:
That is fine. My point was look at the total tax structure, with an eye toward what will be your retirement income structure. For most retires, avoiding income tax actually will raise their total taxes paid compared to a state with an income tax.

Tim
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Not sure how
0+1+6 is greater than
4.25+1+6 but OK.
 
Deelee said:
I agree. But that's not on a state level. You can't say - "Oh, a liberal snowflake. Stay out of Florida." Lots of Florida is full of liberals. I spent a week in Miami around Christmas time because my kid played in a golf tournament there... um... yeah it was pretty liberal. Also know plenty of conservatives that live in parts of California... And like it enough to stay....
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That can go right down to neighborhoods. That doesn't change the fact that states have cultures overall. Miami may be a more liberal city of Florida just like Austin is a more liberal city of Texas. However each city (sometimes down to neighborhood) and state have cultures that should be taken into consideration. Like I said, I'd not move someplace where I knew off the bat that my views would disagree with the culture for either. Seems like poor decision making to me.

Politics aside, there's also the general attitude and personalities of folks in those areas. I can think of a number of states that I outright would not live in.

Free to move where you want in the country? Sure, no laws against it. Doesn't make it a smart decision.
 
steingar said:
Still honestly don't see much wrong with Michigan. The place is gorgeous with all those lakes. Your family has a livable airport for Odin's sake, and another besides, and the UP can be skied or snowmobiled in the winter. Plenty of good health care depending on where you are. You have people there already. I just don't see the down side, other than grass is always greener. And all those places in the south get too bloody hot.
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Like MD, MI is a great state outside of the urban areas, unfortunately, the dazzling urbanites drive laws, spending and policy. It's why I want a state without a large urban population.
 
EdFred said:
Gotcha, but is some of that prop tax burden also municipalty specific? If I live 1 mile north my property taxes would be higher. Are prop taxes higher in Southlake vs....Bordger?
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Yes. Multiple entities can tax your private (and business) property. There are seven different taxing jurisdictions taking a bite of my property and that’s not unusual.

1. County road and flood district
2. River Authority
3. Local Community College
4. Emergency Services District
5. County
6. The University Health System
7. School District (half my property tax burden)

If I lived in the confines of San Antonio, I would be a net change of -1 jurisdictions, my tax burden would double, and 55% of that would go to City of San Antonio.
 
EdFred said:
Not sure how
0+1+6 is greater than
4.25+1+6 but OK.
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Depends on the sources of your income, the value of your real estate, value and taxation of toys and how much of your cash you spend with in-state vendors. Two people with the same overall economic situation may end up with markedly different tax burden.
 
I haven't read the entire thread yet...but I plan to since this subject is also near and dear to me.

I have to chime in though about all the comments about kids...wives, etc....
My wife is locked into the idea of staying near the kids...but I can't help but think that with three of them and having zero control over where they ultimately go, that could get rather difficult.... to be in three places I mean.
the other statement I've heard a lot is that since we've always lived here she wants to maintain a place in the immediate area so that the kids, if they move away, always have a place to come home to.... back to the are where they grew up. I suppose I understand that.... but I just don't really see the importance of that. I'd rather go where I can enjoy every day.

I like a lot of aspects about FL, and FL has a wide range of topography and climate. There's a very distinct difference between areas North of maybe Orlando and South. I actually find the climate around Tampa favorable for opening the windows from fall through a lot of spring...but there's just no winter and summers are brutal. Here in Northern FL there's not so many of those open window days...it's either too hot or too cold. It has been very favorable re. taxes, politics, values, 2A...although I haven't found GA to be very accessible in the areas I've lived. That's not to say it's not friendly...just too crowded and not accessible, no hangars and not great places to be an airport bum if you don't have a hangar. Mainly though I don't care for the topography...and even though it's not typically a big deal I don't like having the tropical storm thing hanging over my head all the time.... and my biggest complaint is that it is so far away from the rest.... it's a long trip to get to the mountains or to get to other interesting cities.

Personally I want to find a small town where you can leave your door unlocked while you walk into town to get an ice cream or whatever... a big enough town to have some life (shopping, places to eat, etc... in walking distance) but not too big. On a big lake that has endless coves and places to enjoy....maybe several waterfront places to eat, etc.... A little bit hilly but not too much. A little bit of seasonal change but not too much.... I just haven't figured it out...and with my wife's anchor here I guess I'll just never leave long term.....
 
weilke said:
Depends on the sources of your income, the value of your real estate, value and taxation of toys and how much of your cash you spend with in-state vendors. Two people with the same overall economic situation may end up with markedly different tax burden.
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For me it will all be dividends (0 plans to touch principal) which where I am now gets taxed. Places I am looking the prop/real estate tax should be the same or less based on what I want to build, and the sales taxes are close. So I don't see how my burden is going to be higher when I'm already starting at 4% vs 0% when sales and other taxes are a wash.
 
Brad W said:
I haven't read the entire thread yet...but I plan to since this subject is also near and dear to me.

I have to chime in though about all the comments about kids...wives, etc....
My wife is locked into the idea of staying near the kids...but I can't help but think that with three of them and having zero control over where they ultimately go,
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Same deal for us. We're currently in NJ, both very much looking forward to getting out, but I want to return to the west where I grew up, and my wife would like to stay closer to the kids...but they are in NC, NJ, and ME, all still single, and young enough that the longest time in their current job for any of them is only about 5 months. So I maintain it's impossible to plan retirement around them; who knows where they'll be in a year or five.
 
Deelee said:
Excellent. Would be nice to have at least a 100 yd range in my back yard. Not nice enough for me to move away to get one, though. So you value having a range in your backyard. Great. Some people may value living in a warmer climate. Or they may value moving south for a job opportunity. So they move to a place like Florida or Texas. For the things they value, too.



Oh no. I grasp that concept fully and completely. That's the bedrock this country was built on. Being able to democratically and peacefully change things. You want a rifle range in California? Move there. Get support for your cause. Change the law. Nothing stopping you if you really want to try. Won't happen, but you are within your rights as an American to try. Don't like the way things are going in your state because of all these northern invaders moving in? Keep voting for the people who support your values to keep the laws as you like them. As a patriotic, red-blooded 'Murican I support that 100%.
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It would be nice not to have to worry about it or fight that fight. I still don’t think you’re getting the point so…
 
EdFred said:
For me it will all be dividends (0 plans to touch principal) which where I am now gets taxed. Places I am looking the prop/real estate tax should be the same or less based on what I want to build, and the sales taxes are close. So I don't see how my burden is going to be higher when I'm already starting at 4% vs 0% when sales and other taxes are a wash.
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So for Texas, the max sales tax is 8.25%. As for property taxes, don’t forget the school district bond measures that pay for things like the not so unusual for Texas $70M Katy football stadium that your neighbors vote for.

https://www.chron.com/sports/highsc...h-school-football-stadiums-Texas-13145194.php

For kicks and grins, our property value burden is fairly low for these parts and sat last year at 1.9% of assessed value after all exemptions and protesting the initial county assessment.
 
EdFred said:
Places I am looking
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Perhaps network with other people you know/knew from your area that have retired and moved or snowbird for input. I've run into quite a few people from the upper midwest (MI, OH, WI, etc.) around the GOM pursuing their retirement plans. Some of the best intel/info I got prior to retirement was talking to former co-workers who had retired before me. Since most were transplants from out of state I figured a majority would return "home." Quite the opposite for a variety of reasons. The one thing I have learned or was told is regardless what you think you will do once retire, most plans will change once everyday becomes Saturday.
 
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EdFred said:
For me it will all be dividends (0 plans to touch principal) which where I am now gets taxed. Places I am looking the prop/real estate tax should be the same or less based on what I want to build, and the sales taxes are close. So I don't see how my burden is going to be higher when I'm already starting at 4% vs 0% when sales and other taxes are a wash.
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I believe TN just abolished their dividend tax. As others here have noted, depending on where you are, TN can bite you on property tax. Look at the town, look at the local rates, look at the value of the kind of property you are looking at and see where you end up on the total tax&fee burden.
 
Morgan3820 said:
It would be nice not to have to worry about it or fight that fight. I still don’t think you’re getting the point so…
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All good. Can't argue with someone's thoughts on what would or wouldn't be ideal. You have the right to feel like you don't want folks interfering with your way of life. I do see that point and I am not going to debate it anymore. That's also a fundamental part of what makes this country great - we all have the right to live our lives the way we want to live (within the bounds of the laws of the land) and we have the right to try to change those laws if we don't like the way we are being governed. Pretty amazing that we get to have these kinds of discussions, right? Even more amazing that, if you and I meet in person, we can have a beer and talk about things like this like rational, intelligent people without fear of reprisal by our government. Great country we live it.

And I apologize for calling one of your posts above dumb. I am going to delete that portion of the post I wrote.
 
TCABM said:
So for Texas, the max sales tax is 8.25%. As for property taxes, don’t forget the school district bond measures that pay for things like the not so unusual for Texas $70M Katy football stadium that your neighbors vote for.
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You have a football stadium, I'll raise you a high school planetarium. It IS really nice, but considering that our school district teaches students in container villages, I thought they had their priorities a bit off.
 
weilke said:
You have a football stadium, I'll raise you a high school planetarium. It IS really nice, but considering that our school district teaches students in container villages, I thought they had their priorities a bit off.
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Not our school district, about 150NM east of us. The Houston area has at least 5x $50M+ High School stadiums.

The DFW area has a $100M+ sports complex at one district, Allen, I think.
 
There are entire law firms that specialize in representing HOAs in Texas. That should tell you everything you need to know.

The answer is Peoria. You know you want to.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
There are entire law firms that specialize in representing HOAs in Texas. That should tell you everything you need to know.
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That's the case in any developed area. McKinney, Addison, Richardson, Grapevine? Does anyone think any of those type-A folks don't want to have a say-so in what their neighbors do, but can't stoop to actually talking to their neighbors? Therefore they pay stupid fees to a law firm to send cease and desist letters about dogs pooping on lawns and the color of your mailbox.
 
TCABM said:
Not our school district, about 150NM east of us. The Houston area has at least 5x $50M+ High School stadiums.

The DFW area has a $100M+ sports complex at one district, Allen, I think.
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If you can afford a plane you shouldn’t be sending your kids of to government schools
 
BladeSlap said:
If you can afford a plane you shouldn’t be sending your kids of to government schools
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Doesn’t matter and irrelevant. Taxing jurisdictions still tax whether my adult kids went to school in this state or not. No choice to opt out of paying the tax.

I grew up in rural central Texas, went to college in west Texas, had a military career living in six states and two overseas countries, then came back because it’s where I want to live, warts and all.

But moving here, come eyes wide open…it ain’t the mythical paradise it’s made out to be. Then again, nowhere is.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Not Texas. The weather sucks, The roads suck, and unless you drive a big truck with rebel flags hanging out the back or are super into keeping up with the Joneses, You will be a little isolated here.
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I guess things are different where Bryan lives. No idea where the “rebel flag” thing comes from, just not very common where I go.

Now, most of what Bryan references is endemic to pretty much every large/growing city. There’s a reason I’m actively working to get out of the DFW MetroMess. It sucks.

Move rural, outside a municipality, life’s good. My home in Gillespie County (south of Fredericksburg) is worth about the same as my Dallas home, and my property taxes are about 60% of my Dallas taxes - and I have a substantial homestead exemption in Dallas!

Choose wisely.
 
TCABM said:
Doesn’t matter and irrelevant. Taxing jurisdictions still tax whether my adult kids went to school in this state or not. No choice to opt out of paying the tax.

I grew up in rural central Texas, went to college in west Texas, had a military career living in six states and two overseas countries, then came back because it’s where I want to live, warts and all.

But moving here, come eyes wide open…it ain’t the mythical paradise it’s made out to be. Then again, nowhere is.
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Buying a home Id look for the cheapest way to avoid the taxes, I know the fruits of those moneys are blown anyways and nothing I’ll use.
 
BladeSlap said:
Right, because the progression of our society has proven how great letting the state raise your kids works out :rolleyes:
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The state doesn't raise my kids. They get taught all their morals at home. The private school they went to in Germany was probably more "progressive" than the public ones here. I don't need to pay $5000 of school taxes each year and then pay tuition on top. That sounds dumb. Maybe you should live somewhere with a better school system. Maybe your beloved Texas ain't so great.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I don't need to pay $5000 of school taxes each year and then pay tuition on top
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Admittedly taken out of context, but it always rubs me the wrong way when a parent complains about paying for both public school (via taxes) and private school for their children. Those of us who have chosen to not have children are still subsidizing your rugrats public education whether you choose to use it or not, and usually not complaining. Okay, enough ranting for tonight from me.
 
Matthew Johnson said:
Admittedly taken out of context, but it always rubs me the wrong way when a parent complains about paying for both public school (via taxes) and private school for their children. Those of us who have chosen to not have children are still subsidizing your rugrats public education whether you choose to use it or not, and usually not complaining. Okay, enough ranting for tonight from me.
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Yeah but, look at property values, crime rates, etc in areas with good public schools vs those without.

What came first the chicken or the egg? :)

Says a guy whose property tax is 15K more than it would be in Tennessee (with crappy wx and politics). Counting down the days till retirement so I can move back to Southern Appalachia.

Good luck on the move Ed!
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
The state doesn't raise my kids. They get taught all their morals at home. The private school they went to in Germany was probably more "progressive" than the public ones here. I don't need to pay $5000 of school taxes each year and then pay tuition on top. That sounds dumb. Maybe you should live somewhere with a better school system. Maybe your beloved Texas ain't so great.
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Well that was in Europe soooo
 
Radar Contact said:
Yeah but, look at property values, crime rates, etc in areas with good public schools vs those without.

What came first the chicken or the egg? :)

Says a guy whose property tax is 15K more than it would be in Tennessee (with crappy wx and politics). Counting down the days till retirement so I can move back to Southern Appalachia.

Good luck on the move Ed!
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My wife is a teacher, I am a fan of keeping property values high, and also think that investing (more) in public education is the right thing to do for the next generation - so I always vote for more school funding when it come up on a ballot. Other than my post above, this is done without complaint. Taken together this is why hearing entitled feeling folks who chose to send their children to private schools complain about funding public education that they are not even using really rubs me the wrong way. Make the choice that is right for you, but don't complain about it.

Edited to add; My wife and I enjoy watching your travel videos - and hope that you are able to continue them with the sale of your airplane.
 
Radar Contact said:
Yeah but, look at property values, crime rates, etc in areas with good public schools vs those without.

What came first the chicken or the egg? :)

Says a guy whose property tax is 15K more than it would be in Tennessee (with crappy wx and politics). Counting down the days till retirement so I can move back to Southern Appalachia.

Good luck on the move Ed!
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Halfsies on an airstrip?
 
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