Lost Engine- when to pitch for Airspeed

[Tantalum]

Pitch for best glide
Look for a landing spot
Communicate

It's pretty simple, if you're on approach with flaps and gear down you pitch down. If you're cruising along happily then apply back pressure and maintain best glide. I probably wouldn't zoom climb, I'd just maintain level altitude until the airspeed bleeds off




PS - engines generally won't just suddenly stop.. I find that's a suspiciously deficient part of general training.. what's more likely to happen is you'll start noticing running rough, fluctuating rpm, issues with manifold pressure, changing oil pressure (losing).. oil on the windscreen.. weird temps, etc. Unless you have a catastrophic failure engines generally don't just hard stop


My only 'engine failure' was self-induced. On the Cirrus the mixture knob is in the center console area near where the passenger sits, the headset cables also come out of the center console.. I had my dad who's not a pilot in the right seat and I was setting up for a long downwind into MYF, just offshore of La Jolla.. well somehow the way my dad moved the cable snagged the mixture and he pretty much cut it off. Engine sounded funny (like surging) felt like someone put the brakes on, and I noticed the fuel flow was at something like 2. My hand automatically went to the mixture knob and put it full rich and the engine instantly came back..

 

[MauleSkinner]

PS - engines generally won't just suddenly stop.. I find that's a suspiciously deficient part of general training.. what's more likely to happen is you'll start noticing running rough, fluctuating rpm, issues with manifold pressure, changing oil pressure (losing).. oil on the windscreen.. weird temps, etc. Unless you have a catastrophic failure engines generally don't just hard stop

One “hard stop” due to fuel interruption…fuel tank vent was plugged. When I went to idle for landing, the vacuum in the tank created a vapor lock (probably not an accurate term), and when I went to full throttle for the go around, it lasted long enough for me to get to about 75 feet.

One hard stop was catastrophic.

One aborted takeoff at V1 for bird ingestion…made a loud bang, but it was still running at idle. Probably not a “hard stop”

One loss of fuel control (went to idle). Not a “hard stop”, but pretty useless for thrust.

the rest were loss of oil pressure.

 

[jesse]

So let me get this straight....you're cruising along at 50+% over your best glide, your engine goes quiet, and your first reaction is to LOWER THE NOSE and INCREASE SPEED and reduce your glide range?

Did you eat a lot of paint chips as a kid?

+1

 

[RoscoeT]

I believe it's more appropriate to train the reflexes to put the nose at or below the horizon as immediate action in lost propulsion situations.

I believe it's more appropriate to fly the airplane properly....as Reno racers do when their engines go kaput.

 

[dreyna14]

The idea of pulling is to convert your kinetic energy into potential energy. However, on climbout, by the time you go, "Huh, WTF?" the stall horn is buzzing in your ear so your only choice is to push.

 

[Huckster79]

I fly a known ice maker that does a whole 105mph in cruise… if I’m not on climb out you can bet your butt the first place my hands going is to the carb heat knob. Delaying slowing down 25mph a few second likely is neglible effect, however A few seconds delay in applying carb heat-that could potentially make a difference as your heat source is now on “battery” (the stored heat in the muffs) it’s gunna cool quickly. So for me i pound in my head carb heat first!

 

[RoscoeT]

The idea of pulling is to convert your kinetic energy into potential energy. However, on climbout, by the time you go, "Huh, WTF?" the stall horn is buzzing in your ear so your only choice is to push.

First, this thread is not about climbout. Most don’t climbout above best glide speed. Second, if you’re trimmed for climbout and the engine quits, you will only hear the stall horn if you add aft elevator to try to keep the nose up. Climbout hands off the controls, pull power and see what happens. You will not lose a bit of airspeed. There is no need to shove the nose down in this situation. Just don’t keep hauling back on the elevator.

 

[WesternFlyer]

Pitch for best glide
Look for a landing spot
Communicate

It's pretty simple, if you're on approach with flaps and gear down you pitch down. If you're cruising along happily then apply back pressure and maintain best glide. I probably wouldn't zoom climb, I'd just maintain level altitude until the airspeed bleeds off




PS - engines generally won't just suddenly stop.. I find that's a suspiciously deficient part of general training.. what's more likely to happen is you'll start noticing running rough, fluctuating rpm, issues with manifold pressure, changing oil pressure (losing).. oil on the windscreen.. weird temps, etc. Unless you have a catastrophic failure engines generally don't just hard stop


My only 'engine failure' was self-induced. On the Cirrus the mixture knob is in the center console area near where the passenger sits, the headset cables also come out of the center console.. I had my dad who's not a pilot in the right seat and I was setting up for a long downwind into MYF, just offshore of La Jolla.. well somehow the way my dad moved the cable snagged the mixture and he pretty much cut it off. Engine sounded funny (like surging) felt like someone put the brakes on, and I noticed the fuel flow was at something like 2. My hand automatically went to the mixture knob and put it full rich and the engine instantly came back..

Exactly what I had learned. I like the idea of pitching as per the situation.

 

[Bill Watson]

First, this thread is not about climbout. Most don’t climbout above best glide speed. Second, if you’re trimmed for climbout and the engine quits, you will only hear the stall horn if you add aft elevator to try to keep the nose up. Climbout hands off the controls, pull power and see what happens. You will not lose a bit of airspeed. There is no need to shove the nose down in this situation. Just don’t keep hauling back on the elevator.

Exactly my experience.


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[Bonchie]

I would have thought that pushing would be the proper response to a loss of power on the climb after takeoff. When I went out to do it in a Maule, I found that, from a normal takeoff attitude approximating best rate plus 10knots, no push was required. The nose dropped quickly on it’s own and that drop needed to be arrested if energy was to be preserved.

Now the turn back to the runway is where the skill is required but that’s a different matter.

Haven’t tried in my RV10. I should.


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Having not flown them all, I’d still think this is probably true on most smaller aircraft. When you do a power off stall, what do you to do to make a 172 stall? Obviously, the answer is hold the nose up, and it takes more and more force to do it as you get slower because the nose wants to drop. It’s not like the plane is gonna fly itself into a stall if you don’t violently push the nose over, but YOU will stall if you fight to keep the nose up.

My point is that Bill is right that it’s not so much about muscle memory to put the nose down. The nose is going to come down if you don’t fight it. Train to do things properly and don’t try to get too cute in switching things up for some situation you’ve conjured up in your head. Pitch for best glide, aim toward where you want to land, and if you’ve got time after that, tell ATC. But talking to a controller who can’t help me is the last of my worries in an engine out.

In a real emergency, you are probably only going to remember the simple, straightforward stuff anyway. I don’t teach to pull the nose up to trade speed for altitude to get to best glide and have never had another CFI do so either. That seems to over complicate matters IMO for little or no gain. Those few seconds getting to best glide by holding the nose level offer a chance to calm down, think, and do little things like switching to a different fuel tank and checking the mags (depending on how the engine failed).

I’d find it counter productive to have a student start jerking up for altitude, no doubt overshooting best glide on the way, then dumping the nose violently, only to be so wound up they forget something important.