My review - IFR6 and IFLYIFR

Betmerick

Betmerick

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Betmerick
I have experience with both companies and will share some personal experiences. I just passed my checkride so I'm free to speak.

First I signed up with Iflyifr whose based in Conn. They send a pilot to you so you are in familiar surroundings and your own plane. You are responsible for his travel and lodging expenses. I lucked out because one of their guys lived in my hometown so I saved those fees. The part that didn't work was the instructor didn't allot me the days that we agreed upon. The basis of accelerated (in my opinion) is to train you for the checkride and nothing else. To give me a few days here, a 2 week break, a few more days, another break, etc. was useless for me. Also I had some old guy (Walter) that seemed like he didn't even want to be there. He bitched on how my 182 was equipped and was pretty argumentative. The day of the checkride it was evident that I was not prepared/qualified to take it. When the DPE said "lets do an arc" and I replied WTF is an arc...... he ended the checkride.

I took a break from training as it left a sour taste in my mouth. When I got re-interested again I signed up with IFR6. I got my plane to Charleston and started the 6 day course. On day 1 the instructor and I went on a joyride around the coastline. I was ready for some hard-hitting IFR work but day 1 was just fluff. We didn't do much the rest of the week other than 2.5 hours of approaches in overcrowded small airports aptly named "the wild west" where radio calls were few and far between. We broke off more approaches than completed. My biggest beef was that I was using a different vision limiting device and was having problems with the course and glideslope needles. Instead of the instructor taking the initiative to introduce power settings or other attitude flying techniques he just let me continue to fail until I got so frustrated that I parked my plane and went home.

I truly feel that for most to succeed in this method of accelerated IFR training is to be well on your way in training and they just "close" you to pass the checkride. To be a green IFR student this does not work!
 
I looked at one of the accelerated do it at home courses (27+ years ago) and they had something like a 4 week study at home program that needed to be completed before the instructor shows up. I stayed with the 141 school that I got the private with. Did any of the 2 companies you reviewed have anything like that for students?

Where did you finish up your IFR?
 
Yuck. Can't imagine spending that much effort & money and not getting it done.

I did mine the same way I did my ppl. Part 61 2-3 days/ week, got it done in 3 months, got a decent amount of actual and felt prepared to fly imc when I passed the checkride.
 
Sam D said:
This is why I think the FAA should provide some sort of certification standards for airmen so that they know what will be on the practical.
Click to expand...

Anything on the ACS can be on the practical. I blame CFIs that don’t want to teach the ACS and beyond. I have witnessed some CFIs that just should not have the certificate.
 
Betmerick said:
I have experience with both companies and will share some personal experiences. I just passed my checkride so I'm free to speak.

First I signed up with Iflyifr whose based in Conn. They send a pilot to you so you are in familiar surroundings and your own plane. You are responsible for his travel and lodging expenses. I lucked out because one of their guys lived in my hometown so I saved those fees. The part that didn't work was the instructor didn't allot me the days that we agreed upon. The basis of accelerated (in my opinion) is to train you for the checkride and nothing else. To give me a few days here, a 2 week break, a few more days, another break, etc. was useless for me. Also I had some old guy (Walter) that seemed like he didn't even want to be there. He bitched on how my 182 was equipped and was pretty argumentative. The day of the checkride it was evident that I was not prepared/qualified to take it. When the DPE said "lets do an arc" and I replied WTF is an arc...... he ended the checkride.

I took a break from training as it left a sour taste in my mouth. When I got re-interested again I signed up with IFR6. I got my plane to Charleston and started the 6 day course. On day 1 the instructor and I went on a joyride around the coastline. I was ready for some hard-hitting IFR work but day 1 was just fluff. We didn't do much the rest of the week other than 2.5 hours of approaches in overcrowded small airports aptly named "the wild west" where radio calls were few and far between. We broke off more approaches than completed. My biggest beef was that I was using a different vision limiting device and was having problems with the course and glideslope needles. Instead of the instructor taking the initiative to introduce power settings or other attitude flying techniques he just let me continue to fail until I got so frustrated that I parked my plane and went home.

I truly feel that for most to succeed in this method of accelerated IFR training is to be well on your way in training and they just "close" you to pass the checkride. To be a green IFR student this does not work!
Click to expand...
You must have studied for, taken and passed the Written if you were up with a DPE on a check ride. And you said "...WTF is an arc..." ???
 
I’ve put a couple of my clients through an accelerated timeline around 9-10 flying days, 5-ish hours a day over a 14 day window. The first time I taught it this way I was skeptical. To my delight, it ended up working extremely well, I think because they were so immersed in it. As an instructor, though, it can be exhausting! Single pilot IFR is demanding and an accelerated course without an instructor who understands the gravity of that seems like a recipe for what you got, @Betmerick.
 
TommyG said:
Anything on the ACS can be on the practical. I blame CFIs that don’t want to teach the ACS and beyond. I have witnessed some CFIs that just should not have the certificate.
Click to expand...
Yep, and it lays out the minimum as well.
 
Betmerick said:
I truly feel that for most to succeed in this method of accelerated IFR training is to be well on your way in training and they just "close" you to pass the checkride. To be a green IFR student this does not work!
Click to expand...

I can't vouch for your bad experience with PIC recently. Not scheduling ten days in a row is sort of contrary to their entire philosophy. I knew two of their instructors. One was the guy who trained me and I thought he was absolutely excellent. The other was the board member formerly known as CapnRon. He seemed fine the one time (not part of any course), I flew with him. They're pretty candid (or at least they were) about what they needed from you when you started. You need to have passed the written and have flown the requisite XC hours and be well able to fly your aircraft. The ten days have no time to make up for your deficiencies as a VFR pilot. You're expected to read through the Dogan book before you start as well (or else you're going to spend a lot of time with it during the course).

The key is you have to be ready, not someone who just finished his private. But it doesn't assume a lot of instrument experience.
 
This is an old thread but it pops up in google searches.

I had a rather bizarre experience at IFR6 a week ago. IFR6 is a school that specializes in immersive IFR training and other endorsements / ratings for pilots.

IFR6 has a one-week IFR program that culminates with a check ride. I did my cross country 2 days before the check ride and was not happy with my proficiency. The school is in Charleston and I had failed to consider the implications of December weather in a city on the coast. My skills were not up to par with the wind and turbulence. That is 100% on me.

The day after my cross country was the last day before my check ride and I noticed I was 8 hours short of the 40 needed for a check ride. I do feel that part of what I was paying for was the school managing my time but I’ll take responsibility and say that is also 100% on me for not keeping up on my hours throughout the week.

I had asked what a path to success looked like the morning before my check ride and the response was we would fly off the 8 hours today. It was another day of 20 to 30 knots at 3000 ft and my head was not in the right place to receive instruction.

I asked to come back for my checkride prep and checkride but that got a quick denial. We spoke for about 20 or 30 minutes and I was being pressured to stay and was offered to return in Feb or Mar for my checkride. For some reason, the longer we were in the conference room the more contentious it became. But why - I wrote IFR6 a $6,500 check and had not asked or implied I wanted any money back.

I declined the delayed checkride, put on my coat and left. I was walking to the FBO to leave and never to be heard from again. This is where it got even stranger.

On my walk to the FBO, my CFII calls me and asks to have a few pages out of my syllabus. These were pages that we had both initialed indicating training received. I can’t put my finger on why, but I had become suspicious. I told the CFII that I would think about it.

After entering the FBO, I got another call from one of the people who runs the place, I told her, I was talking to the lady at the FBO desk and to give me a minute. She hung up on me and immediately drove down to the FBO. She confronts me at the FBO desk, demanding the papers and stating that they had to be turned in to the FAA (I’ve already spoken to the FSDO, there is nothing to turn in to the FAA). I again declined handing them over and that they were already in my plane. She then loudly (I’m not easily embarrassed) proclaims that I have her property in my plane and demands access to the ramp. The FBO denied her access and assured me no one would be given access to my plane. It was so bad, I took my phone out of my pocket and was about to call 911. I knew that would just escalate the situation and decided instead to disengage. The IFR6 person then offers to refund my checkride fee ($500) in return for the pages. I still decline.

Fast forward a couple days, I’m now home and the CFII texts me to say he needs the papers in order to get paid. That’s much different than “they have to be turned in to the FAA”. I continue to decline.

I still don’t really know what was/is going on or what happened. I was polite and cordial, never contentious. All I wanted was to return for checkride prep and a checkride. The way IFR6 treated a customer who had written them a large check a week prior was despicable.

As tempting as it is, go somewhere else.
 
Wow! Never heard of that crew. Did mine the old fashioned way and it did seem to take forever. I don’t feel I was ever scammed or taken advantage of. Ifr has way to much at stake for some pump and dump learning experience. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
 
IFR6 treated me competently and professionally, my experience was nothing like what is being portrayed here. Reviews seem to be posted by folks not very active on this forum. I did quit and go home, they mailed me a check for returned check ride fee after I passed. I'd had an offer to test down there.

I agree that this would all be tough for a naïve IFR student.

My advice for future accelerated students:
Be proficient flying your gadgets and hand flying. Well trimmed hands off hand flying!
Know the power and pitch settings for you plane in various phases of flight. https://mycfibook.com/slideshow/259/#/1/14
Be proficient with classic IFR training patterns: https://nova.aero/repository/IFR/IFR Maneuver Patterns.pdf
www.ifr-magazine.com

IFR Muscle Builders - IFR Magazine

In the opening phases of World War II, our country was feverishly training pilots for war. Thousands of cadets earned coveted US Army Air Corps wings. Six months later, half were dead. Investigation revealed that deaths attributable to VFR into IMC far exceeded combat losses. IMC was more...
www.ifr-magazine.com www.ifr-magazine.com
It would have been helpful if I had a lot more actual IFR time. I likely could have passed but had a horrible frightful flight in legit rain storm. My deficiencies were exacerbated. It was not a school problem.

Be proficient doing those things under the hood!
 
Sounds like a bad experience no doubt, im not discounting that, but you seem to be projecting blame on others. Did you not educate yourself prior to these accelerated course, did you read the ACS, did you have your written accomplished before you stared? Just curious.

I went from zero knowledge other than the written accomplished to checkride passed in 10 days at American flyers. Only prerequisite was written completed. It was 12 hour days every day except one day was a built in half day for burn out. I’d contact them and question everything then hit it.

Edit: Pfft old post alert. Oh well
 
Tim-NJ said:
This is an old thread but it pops up in google searches.

I had a rather bizarre experience at IFR6 a week ago. IFR6 is a school that specializes in immersive IFR training and other endorsements / ratings for pilots.

IFR6 has a one-week IFR program that culminates with a check ride. I did my cross country 2 days before the check ride and was not happy with my proficiency. The school is in Charleston and I had failed to consider the implications of December weather in a city on the coast. My skills were not up to par with the wind and turbulence. That is 100% on me.

The day after my cross country was the last day before my check ride and I noticed I was 8 hours short of the 40 needed for a check ride. I do feel that part of what I was paying for was the school managing my time but I’ll take responsibility and say that is also 100% on me for not keeping up on my hours throughout the week.

I had asked what a path to success looked like the morning before my check ride and the response was we would fly off the 8 hours today. It was another day of 20 to 30 knots at 3000 ft and my head was not in the right place to receive instruction.

I asked to come back for my checkride prep and checkride but that got a quick denial. We spoke for about 20 or 30 minutes and I was being pressured to stay and was offered to return in Feb or Mar for my checkride. For some reason, the longer we were in the conference room the more contentious it became. But why - I wrote IFR6 a $6,500 check and had not asked or implied I wanted any money back.

I declined the delayed checkride, put on my coat and left. I was walking to the FBO to leave and never to be heard from again. This is where it got even stranger.

On my walk to the FBO, my CFII calls me and asks to have a few pages out of my syllabus. These were pages that we had both initialed indicating training received. I can’t put my finger on why, but I had become suspicious. I told the CFII that I would think about it.

After entering the FBO, I got another call from one of the people who runs the place, I told her, I was talking to the lady at the FBO desk and to give me a minute. She hung up on me and immediately drove down to the FBO. She confronts me at the FBO desk, demanding the papers and stating that they had to be turned in to the FAA (I’ve already spoken to the FSDO, there is nothing to turn in to the FAA). I again declined handing them over and that they were already in my plane. She then loudly (I’m not easily embarrassed) proclaims that I have her property in my plane and demands access to the ramp. The FBO denied her access and assured me no one would be given access to my plane. It was so bad, I took my phone out of my pocket and was about to call 911. I knew that would just escalate the situation and decided instead to disengage. The IFR6 person then offers to refund my checkride fee ($500) in return for the pages. I still decline.

Fast forward a couple days, I’m now home and the CFII texts me to say he needs the papers in order to get paid. That’s much different than “they have to be turned in to the FAA”. I continue to decline.

I still don’t really know what was/is going on or what happened. I was polite and cordial, never contentious. All I wanted was to return for checkride prep and a checkride. The way IFR6 treated a customer who had written them a large check a week prior was despicable.

As tempting as it is, go somewhere else.
Click to expand...
So you screwed someone out of a paycheck? Good job. Why would you not be willing to provide a copy of the documents?
 
Ed Haywood said:
So you screwed someone out of a paycheck? Good job. Why would you not be willing to provide a copy of the documents?
Click to expand...
The company does appear to be giving false info (has to be turned into the FAA, where the FSDO supposedly has said otherwise) and, based on this one side of the story, exceptionally poor customer service. I too would be hesitant to oblige. It doesn’t pass the smell test (although the story seems a little odorous too).
 
My recollection is that some portion of paperwork they gave me was retained as proof of training should the FAA ever go talk to them about a student. Not to hand in proactively, but to have available on file reactively.

Kind of a shame to bust out of two accelerated programs!
 
Tim-NJ said:
This is an old thread but it pops up in google searches.

I had a rather bizarre experience at IFR6 a week ago. IFR6 is a school that specializes in immersive IFR training and other endorsements / ratings for pilots.

IFR6 has a one-week IFR program that culminates with a check ride. I did my cross country 2 days before the check ride and was not happy with my proficiency. The school is in Charleston and I had failed to consider the implications of December weather in a city on the coast. My skills were not up to par with the wind and turbulence. That is 100% on me.

The day after my cross country was the last day before my check ride and I noticed I was 8 hours short of the 40 needed for a check ride. I do feel that part of what I was paying for was the school managing my time but I’ll take responsibility and say that is also 100% on me for not keeping up on my hours throughout the week.

I had asked what a path to success looked like the morning before my check ride and the response was we would fly off the 8 hours today. It was another day of 20 to 30 knots at 3000 ft and my head was not in the right place to receive instruction.

I asked to come back for my checkride prep and checkride but that got a quick denial. We spoke for about 20 or 30 minutes and I was being pressured to stay and was offered to return in Feb or Mar for my checkride. For some reason, the longer we were in the conference room the more contentious it became. But why - I wrote IFR6 a $6,500 check and had not asked or implied I wanted any money back.

I declined the delayed checkride, put on my coat and left. I was walking to the FBO to leave and never to be heard from again. This is where it got even stranger.

On my walk to the FBO, my CFII calls me and asks to have a few pages out of my syllabus. These were pages that we had both initialed indicating training received. I can’t put my finger on why, but I had become suspicious. I told the CFII that I would think about it.

After entering the FBO, I got another call from one of the people who runs the place, I told her, I was talking to the lady at the FBO desk and to give me a minute. She hung up on me and immediately drove down to the FBO. She confronts me at the FBO desk, demanding the papers and stating that they had to be turned in to the FAA (I’ve already spoken to the FSDO, there is nothing to turn in to the FAA). I again declined handing them over and that they were already in my plane. She then loudly (I’m not easily embarrassed) proclaims that I have her property in my plane and demands access to the ramp. The FBO denied her access and assured me no one would be given access to my plane. It was so bad, I took my phone out of my pocket and was about to call 911. I knew that would just escalate the situation and decided instead to disengage. The IFR6 person then offers to refund my checkride fee ($500) in return for the pages. I still decline.

Fast forward a couple days, I’m now home and the CFII texts me to say he needs the papers in order to get paid. That’s much different than “they have to be turned in to the FAA”. I continue to decline.

I still don’t really know what was/is going on or what happened. I was polite and cordial, never contentious. All I wanted was to return for checkride prep and a checkride. The way IFR6 treated a customer who had written them a large check a week prior was despicable.

As tempting as it is, go somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing this information, they were on the list to check into, and do something similar to what you did. Very curious as to why they needed those documents?
 
4RNB said:
IFR6 treated me competently and professionally, my experience was nothing like what is being portrayed here. Reviews seem to be posted by folks not very active on this forum. I did quit and go home, they mailed me a check for returned check ride fee after I passed. I'd had an offer to test down there.

I agree that this would all be tough for a naïve IFR student.

My advice for future accelerated students:
Be proficient flying your gadgets and hand flying. Well trimmed hands off hand flying!
Know the power and pitch settings for you plane in various phases of flight. https://mycfibook.com/slideshow/259/#/1/14
Be proficient with classic IFR training patterns: https://nova.aero/repository/IFR/IFR Maneuver Patterns.pdf
www.ifr-magazine.com

IFR Muscle Builders - IFR Magazine

In the opening phases of World War II, our country was feverishly training pilots for war. Thousands of cadets earned coveted US Army Air Corps wings. Six months later, half were dead. Investigation revealed that deaths attributable to VFR into IMC far exceeded combat losses. IMC was more...
www.ifr-magazine.com www.ifr-magazine.com
It would have been helpful if I had a lot more actual IFR time. I likely could have passed but had a horrible frightful flight in legit rain storm. My deficiencies were exacerbated. It was not a school problem.

Be proficient doing those things under the hood!
Click to expand...
Good info to consider.
 
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