runway incursion question
- Thread starter HF17
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Final Approach
Any occurrence at an aerodrome involving the incorrect presence of an aircraft, vehicle or person on the protected area of a surface designated for the landing and take off of aircraft.
A control tower is required to designate the surface for landing or takeoff. The surface can be water at controlled airports with water runways or a helipad
A control tower is required to designate the surface for landing or takeoff. The surface can be water at controlled airports with water runways or a helipad
midwestpa24
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midwestpa24
This is a common topic for us. The answer as I have received from the FAA as an airport is no, at least by how incursion is currently defined. Used to be an incursion had to involve a loss of separation between aircraft or a vehicle in an aircraft. They changed the definition about 10 years ago to remove the separation requirement, but to link it to any incorrect presence within the runway safety area.
Now if you are talking about aircraft vs aircraft at an untowered airport, there is literally no regulation that defines what separation is required between aircraft. There is nothing that prohibits two aircraft from occupying the runway at the same time. Now at Part 139 certificated commercial airports, vehicles and pedestrians are regulated differently, but for the purposes of this discussion it isn't worth going into.
Now if you are talking about aircraft vs aircraft at an untowered airport, there is literally no regulation that defines what separation is required between aircraft. There is nothing that prohibits two aircraft from occupying the runway at the same time. Now at Part 139 certificated commercial airports, vehicles and pedestrians are regulated differently, but for the purposes of this discussion it isn't worth going into.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yeah. Say the local NIMBY Chapter has finally had enough with the airport and they attack...
in·cur·sion
/inˈkərZHən/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: incursion; plural noun: incursions
an invasion or attack, especially a sudden or brief one.
"incursions into enemy territory"
HF17
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Wouldn’t it actually be a runway incursion if the untowered airport was closed?
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MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
If the airport’s closed, there’s technically no runway, so no incursion.
midwestpa24
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In all technicality, runway incursion is defined, but is not in and of itself a regulation in which a pilot could be violated on. The runway incursion does serve as a trigger for an investigation though, and if it is found to be caused by pilot error you probably could be violated for failing to follow ATC directions. Both the ATC and the Airport are required by the FAA to report and investigate all runway incursions.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
If it was closed, the simple act of landing there could be considered an incursion? Couldn't it?
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes, but not a runway incursion.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Dang it. Just when I thought I was on to somethingYes, but not a runway incursion.
