Want to become a pilot in Portland, OR

[PDXDave]

Hello everyone!

I'd like to become a pilot. Ideally for FedEx. I currently work for the company as a full time courier. I live in Beaverton, Oregon with my wife and 6 month old son.

I understand that I cannot just jump right into a career with FDX.

I have no ratings or training.

I am 38 years old, 250 pounds and my body hurts at work every day, and when I get home. Constant getting in and out of the truck to deliver packages has me pounding Aleve and heat on ankles at night. Beyond that I am a healthy individual whose recent blood work came back optimal for my age.

It is my goal to fall into a career that I love. I have always loved aviation but never had the money to pursue it. I did not complete college, only taking a semester when I was in my early 20s. I am on the spectrum, and have had 7+ years of therapy to help me overcome personal life challenges and to grow as an individual.

My wife does not want to move away from Portland, ever, because she doesn't want to move away from her family. She has made that abundantly clear. Interestingly she also does not want to fly with me in a plane, ever. She hates flying. She doesn't want to go on weekend trips in a plane for example. I support my wife 100%. She also works full time and has a great career in an office job. She is able to sustain us on her income alone, though we'd have to tighten our belts a bit.

All that being said, we talked and she supports my passion and desire to become a pilot. We looked online and there are flight schools, loans I could take out, etc. We own a small home, have stellar credit and don't have much debt beyond a car payment. We don't have a ton of discretionary income though with a little one! So a loan or scholarship would be the best way to go for me to pursue this.

Honestly I would be very happy landing a flying gig that can support our growing family. My job as a FedEx courier is taking life away from me through very difficult physical stress. I will probably leave soon anyway if I can line up another full time job elsewhere, so please know that I am not "ditching my job for flying." I also understand that getting a job for a huge carrier will take lots of time and I am okay being patient.

I come here to ask you all, what is the best way to go? Specifically for Portland area? I looked at a few flight schools such as ATP and Hillsboro Aero Academy that offer schooling with financing. It's been a lot of material to read over. Everyone promises the moon. And with schools and institutions all competing for my business, I'd love to hear what successes (and failures, if you choose to discuss them) you guys have had with some of the choices out here.

Thanks a lot! I look forward to your responses. I am also happy to answer additional questions.

 

[flyingpreacher]

Gotta ask, you driving for Ground or Express? I drove for ground and gave it up for a job in the Feds. I just started flying about 16 months ago, so let me tell you where I've been so far, and the options from here on out. Might give you an idea of the path that you're looking at.

1. Private pilot training - This took me about 11 months, but the plane was in the shop for 4 of those, so realistically, 7 months. What does this entail? I HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIIIGHLY recommend doing your ground school first. This will save you from having to learn things as you go. You will already have the mental knowledge of what you're doing, it will simply be a matter of learning how to apply what you know. This can save you significant amounts of money and time in your training. I also bought into a flying club that reduced my hourly costs, but it takes a while for your initial investment to balance out the extra costs of renting. All in all, it cost me about $12,000 out of pocket to get my private (and yes, I'm including my buy in in that price)

2. Instrument training - I worked my tail off to get this done in about 6 months. It took me about 65 hours at $80/hour plus instructor fees, so that brings my instrument costs up to approximately $6000 for this rating

3. Commercial - my next step. You need a minimum of 250 total flight hours (plus a bunch of specific requirements) to make this rating. That means I need about another 140 hours. Add in instructor time, and this rating will cost me about $12,000 more. (If you're keeping track, that puts me at about $30k out of my own pocket. I don't have any grants/loans/scholarships. Also, this is spread over about 2.5-3 years, so take that into account)

4. For the FedEx Purple Runway program that has you starting out flying feeder routes, you need at least 800 hours of total time and 500 as Pilot in Command to join as a Second In Command (co-pilot) on the C208 Caravan. From there, you can move up to PIC, then SIC on the big boys, and finally to a full-fledged captain flying FedEx mainline. There are feeder routes in your area, so this could be an option, but how do you get those 800 hours?

4a. CFI - become a flight instructor. Now instead of you paying for every hour, your student pays for the plane, and you also get a small amount per hour (say $25-30/flight hour). One of the downsides to this is that your students will be mostly Student Pilots, so you will only be able to fly with them when the weather well above minimums. In the PNW, this can be tricky (but not impossible). Another downside is, again, more training and flight hours to get your CFI. You can also add your Instrument Instructor and/or Multi-Engine Instructor (again, more training).

4b. Keep flying on your own - This is the more expensive route as it's all coming out of your own pocket

4c. Join the Purple Runway program on a scholarship - This way, FedEx pays for your flight training from the get-go, but you are committed to staying with them for a certain amount of time or you'll have to pay it back. A downside for you is that their closest scholarship school is University of North Dakota. (Most of the rest of the schools are in the southeast).

4d. Go to a dedicated flight school - This is probably the fastest option, but also probably the most expensive of the ones I've addressed. ATP Flight Schools does have a location in Hillsboro. You can go from zero time to Private Pilot, Instrument Rating, Commercial, and CFI (yes, all 4) for just under $90k, at least in theory. Anecdotal evidence supports numbers closer to $90k-100k. If you're willing to take out a loan, that can be an option. They also offer Airline partnerships, where if you partner with one of their airlines, again, you're locked in for a certain amount of time, but they will reimburse at least part of your training, plus give you a fast track to getting on board with their airline.

5. The Big Kahuna - the Airline Transport Pilot - You need 1500 hours of flight time for this unless you go through a school with a dedicated aviation program, which can bump the number down to 1000 hours. Mind you, that's actual flight time, not time you sat in the office teaching students. It's a big time commitment, but also how you make the big bucks.

I hope this gives you a decent overview of the process, and if you have any questions, feel free to post them back here. I certainly don't have them all, but there's pilots on here with tens of thousands of flight hours who can give you far better advice than I can. Welcome to the community. These guys will help you all along the way however they can.

 

[SkyChaser]

I am on the spectrum, and have had 7+ years of therapy to help me overcome personal life challenges and to grow as an individual.

I don't want to be a downer, but this could possibly pose some problems when you need to get a first-class medical, and if you're not careful, that process could really screw you over. You don't have to share here, but you will definitely want to research the medical restrictions v.e.r.y thoroughly. Don't go in for your medical exam until you know you're going to be good to go, because if you get deferred or denied, that's most likely going to be a long, long row to hoe, in time and money.

 

[GaryM]

@flyingpreacher wrote a great summary. I'll add a step 0.5. Make sure you are able to pass a first class FAA aeromedical exam before you start to invest in training. Yes, you only need a third class to be a private pilot, and BasicMed and Sport Pilot are great options if you want to fly for fun. But if you want to fly professionally, you'll eventually need that first class medical. Don't apply for it until you are sure you will pass; you may with to consult with an AME first if there is any question. Read the medical forum here. There are a number of ways, many based on past medical history or prescription use, to fail. Aspiring pilots are often surprised by this. Don't sink a lot of money into training only to be surprised.

 

[Oldmanb777]

I hate to rain on your idea. You could make something work. As stated make sure you can breeze through a 1st class medical. The medical hiring standards of companies varies, but usually FAR exceeds the 1st class FAA requirement. And some of that is dictated by demand. Like how many pilots do we need right now, and what's the quality of current applicants.
You will wind up chasing a job all over the country and possibly all over the world until you get setteled in to what you think might be permanent. It won't be, but you can hope. You could easily spend 10 years moving every 6 months. So that may mean commuting someplace instead of uprooting the family every time. That could easily mean gone 20+ days a month. And I mean GONE as in out of contact with family. When the kid is sick, you half way around the world. Wife has a fender bender, your half way around the world, and absolutely no support to her. Water heater fails, she is totally on her own. When i heard one of my kids was taken to the hospital, i was half way around the world. The fastest way to get home was to fly my scheduled trip back to the states, and commute home. Same when the youngest kid was born. I made it home just in time. Everybody enjoyed taking a picture of me sleeping on the couch as the chord was cut. There is a reason for AIDS "Airline Induced Divorce syndrome" These days there are decent jobs in corporate flying. It's very different than airline flying. So don't discount making a career path there. It's a huge commitment. So make sure you can qualify, and try to know what your getting into. the older you get the less chance of success. When i got my first airline job, the cut off was 29 yrs old. Isn't that way now, but could be again in the future. It's that supply and demand thing again. Good luck with your decision.

 

[flyingpreacher]

@flyingpreacher wrote a great summary. I'll add a step 0.5. Make sure you are able to pass a first class FAA aeromedical exam before you start to invest in training. Don't sink a lot of money into training only to be surprised.

Good advice Gary! I got a 1st Class before I stepped foot into the FBO just to make sure that I could. Obviously I don't need it just yet, but that's a great piece of advice! I'll have to remember that for future write-ups!

 

[Domenick]

Before you embark on your FAA medical quest, you should contact THE FAA Medical guru Dr. Bruce Chien at http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/. He has helped hundreds of people through their FAA medical process. The FAA medical is the first, and depending on your health, the most important and difficult hoop you'll have to jump through. Check with Dr. Bruse FIRST.

Good luck!

 

[murphey]

Move into a desk job with FDX and take up flying for fun. Best options are accounting or software. Training is faster and cheaper than flying, salary is MUCH better, you keep your years with the company for pension and medical, and so on. There’s no age cutoff, no worries about FAA medical exams, no flying in questionable weather, family will not be worried whe you’re gone for lomg periods of time….

Take your educational benefits and take an intro class at the local college, see which you like better.

 

[kath]

It is my goal to fall into a career that I love.

Fantastic! The first step would be to see if aviation *is* something you really love, or if it's the kind of thing that just seems like a lofty goal from the ground. Go take a "discovery flight" at a local flight school. It's a no-obligation (and relatively cheap) short introductory lesson, where an instructor will let you actually fly. You'll probably know right away whether it'll be a lifelong addiction or not.

Fun: @flyingpreacher did a great job of outlining the steps... there's a lot of non-professional flying that has to happen in the years before professional flying can, so it has to be something you enjoy doing for fun.

I did not complete college, only taking a semester when I was in my early 20s.

Big airlines prefer to hire pilots with four-year degrees. The degree can be in anything, it doesn't have to be in aviation. This is a requirement that ebbs and flows with the market, so it changes with the times and with the airline.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...mpanies-care-about-a-bachelors-degree.124509/

I am on the spectrum, and have had 7+ years of therapy to help me overcome personal life challenges and to grow as an individual.

Others have already commented on the FAA medical process...

My wife does not want to move away from Portland, ever, because she doesn't want to move away from her family. She has made that abundantly clear.

This seems to me the biggest barrier to success. Many pilots, especially those just starting out, have to be willing to move to where the jobs are. It is possible to find something where you are, but you have to be either lucky or patient or both.

If there's a particular corporate culture that you like, there are ways of getting involved with aviation besides just flying. Mechanic, dispatch, etc... some of those might be an easier road, and be close to home. You'd still get to hang around airplanes a lot.

We looked online and there are flight schools, loans I could take out, etc. We own a small home, have stellar credit and don't have much debt beyond a car payment. We don't have a ton of discretionary income though with a little one! So a loan or scholarship would be the best way to go for me to pursue this.

I would advise not going into debt for this endeavor, since it's a risky one. (What I mean is: the risk of not being able to find a local job, or of having your medical denied, etc.). Yes, there are many flight schools and programs that would be happy to lend and tout the benefits of taking out a loan, but this doesn't mean it's a good idea. See "Fun:", above. Others may disagree; a little searching on this forum, and I bet you can find some spirited debate.

My job as a FedEx courier is taking life away from me through very difficult physical stress.

Flying is also not without its physical challenges. Yes, time in the air is just sitting in a chair, but (like driving a truck), there is a lot of getting in and out of an awkward space, climbing up on a wing spar to fuel up, physically pushing airplanes in and out of parking spaces, hiking around an airport with all your stuff, etc. Some of this will abate in the professional world, but you'll have to do it with small planes when first starting out. Again, this is the kind of thing where a Discovery Flight will give you a lot of insight about whether you'll like it or not.

Everyone promises the moon.

I bet they do!
Discovery Flight, my friend!
Go find out what it's like, no-obligation. Hang out at the airport and talk to folks.

A lot of people get to Private Pilot or Sport Pilot, and then stop, and have a lifelong skill and hobby that they enjoy for years, even if they don't fly for a living.

Good luck,

 

[Zeldman]

I am 38 years old, 250 pounds and my body hurts

I started flying for money at 38 so it can be done. A friend of mine was hired at a regional at 62. (before C-19)

Smart to get the medical certificate out of the way first.

I'll agree that being a pilot means moving to where the jobs are. Once I worked for an old time airline pilot that told me never sell your house for an aviation job. He lived in Florida and commuted to California for work. His wife lasted 20 years before she had enough.

I would recommend not going into debt a much as possible for aviation. The first years will be very low paying. One thing I have discovered in aviation: Flying for living only makes someone else rich.

The 250 pounds and pain is something that needs to be dealt with, not so much for flying but for life. I once weighed near 250. Active lifestyle and all that. Pain as well. Knocked off 45 pounds after the heart attack and I feel a LOT better as well as having more energy. My BP and glucose is well under control, as both were going up with the weight. The other day I was carrying two 25 pound boxes of kitty litter. I could not believe how much strain and pressure that put on my feet and knees, and that is what I was doing to myself with the extra weight.

Good luck to ya bud. It is a hard row to hoe but can be done.

 

[TommyG]

Getting a job for a specific airline which requires a lot of hours to be competitive, and staying in an local area you don’t want to move from. That’s gonna be really tough to accomplish. You have about 5 years before you are marketable for any sort of fly for hire job, and then a couple of more years before you would have the hours to even apply for fedex. In this business if you have flexibility you can get better jobs quicker, if you want to stay one area the jobs are tough to find.

 

[kayoh190]

Move into a desk job with FDX and take up flying for fun. Best options are accounting or software. Training is faster and cheaper than flying, salary is MUCH better

I'd be willing to bet that the FedEx pilots are earning more than the software or accounting guys - at least outside of senior management. Doesn't necessarily change your overall point, but the 'no money in flying airplanes' thing doesn't apply at the FedEx (or UPS) level.

 

[texasclouds]

All it takes is time and money. It can happen.

 

[murphey]

I'd be willing to bet that the FedEx pilots are earning more than the software or accounting guys - at least outside of senior management. Doesn't necessarily change your overall point, but the 'no money in flying airplanes' thing doesn't apply at the FedEx (or UPS) level.

I have no doubts that the beginning software or accounting salary, that the OP can probably get in Jan 2023 and keep with raises, and not expend LOTS of time (and need that BA/BS degree which is another 3 yrs of limited income, if any, and the flying certs and hours) outweighs what the beginning FDX pilots are making. Always make equivalent comparisons.

Starting software salaries are in the $60K’sand up. Looking at Fedex job site, software jobs are $80k and up. Not too shabby. No FAA exams, no overnights, no working up the seniority ladder, and plenty of $$$ to learn to fly spam cans.

 

[PDXDave]

Wow these are great responses! I have read through them.

Alright, so first thing's first: gotta get that discovery flight! Then I will come back and let you guys know how it went.

 

[kayoh190]

Looking at Fedex job site, software jobs are $80k and up. Not too shabby. No FAA exams, no overnights, no working up the seniority ladder, and plenty of $$$ to learn to fly spam cans.

Post the qualifications for that job. You're right that the OP won't roll right into a job flying for FedEx, but neither can he snap his fingers and be a competitive software engineer overnight either. The OP isn't young, but he's young enough that he could have a couple decades as a pilot for FedEx if that's what he chose to do.

 

[Oldmanb777]

FedEx once had a hire from within policy. I don't know if they still do or what it's about.

 

[Domenick]

...I am on the spectrum, and have had 7+ years of therapy to help me overcome personal life challenges and to grow as an individual...

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/pilot-mental-fitness

There are a few psychological diagnoses which are immediately and forever disqualifying. I believe all current and previous uses of "spectrum" medications are required to be disclosed.

I've never dealt with the FAA over a psychological issue, so I am no expert, but "being on the spectrum" with 7+ years of therapy will be a bright red flag to the FAA. It may not be fair, but it is what it is.

This is another reason YOU MUST contact Dr. Bruce Chien BEFORE initiating your FAA medical process. Trying it yourself will simply dig a deep hole, you will need help getting out of. Better to never get into a hole in the first place.

 

[DesertNomad]

Talk to the folks at Twin Oaks Airpark. They have a flight school about 8 miles south of Hillsboro where you will get excellent training. However, sort out your medical first.

 

[Palmpilot]

Talk to the folks at Twin Oaks Airpark....

My favorite Portland-area airport!

 

[murphey]

Post the qualifications for that job. You're right that the OP won't roll right into a job flying for FedEx, but neither can he snap his fingers and be a competitive software engineer overnight either. The OP isn't young, but he's young enough that he could have a couple decades as a pilot for FedEx if that's what he chose to do.

Whoops! The software jobs are not in Portland area - Colorado Springs, Orlando and other locations. But they are entry-level software positions starting at $60K.

Sorry.

 

[luvflyin]

A

Talk to the folks at Twin Oaks Airpark. They have a flight school about 8 miles south of Hillsboro where you will get excellent training. However, sort out your medical first.

@PDXDave , I can vouch for this, I used to have my plane hangared there. Here's a couple others in the area I've had experience with and would recommend. Not really a need to put off a Discovery Flight while checking out the medical stuff though. Go talk to some folk at these, or another school in the area. They could give you some leads to local Docs who know about this stuff.
https://www.twinoaksairpark.com/
https://www.aeromt.com/
http://gorgewindsinc.com/

 

[d8ab7c85]

Twin Oaks is on the opposite side of town than I am, but they have instructors and a light sport plane. So it has been my home recently.

The old conservative attitude of FAA (and many pilots) seems to be that medicine=weakness, seems like a lot of people do the don't ask don't tell thing for dignoses that weren't being actively treated.

In my case (and seemingly 80% of people in genx or younger) I'm more sane and more healthy as a medicated and diagnosed person. The story might be different (difficult) if your medication is a certain green plant.

Dr. Chien said there was no chance for my meds, hence light sport. But I'm not trying to do it as a career. Still, that might be a starting point since it's only an option if you have NOT been rejected on medical.

DM me if you want to talk specific meds and diagnoses.

 

[Domenick]

PDXDave, one last bit of advice on your medical.

Do NOT disclose any more details of your medical situation on any sort of social media. The FAA may discover your comments. If they do not correspond exactly to your paperwork and prior statements, they will be very unhappy. I am not suggesting you would lie, but all of us are less than precise and totally consistent in casual conversation. It's an "appearance" thing.

Reporting on your discovery flight would be welcome here.