Titans Flyover

Velocity173

Velocity173

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Velocity173
Just a bit low Army.

 
I didn’t see it as being dangerous until they pointed out the cables they flew under, yikes! Also, that news reporter had an annoying voice.
 
A1Topgun said:
None of the chopper are equipped with "Cable Cutters"!
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The cable issue isn’t as disastrous as the FAA guy pointed out. They were somewhat perpendicular to the cable so I give them a 50 /50 shot at the cutters clipping it. Of course there’s the whole cut cable falling on people problem though.
 
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Clip4 said:
Military fly overs are a waste of tax payer $$ and honestly pro football already rips the tax payers off plenty.
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Never did a flyover that wasn't some part of another training evolution. Heck, just doing division formation work is a training qual we had to get every 60 days (IIRC). Military flying is not civilian flying. Every single flight has some training quals to be logged (eve in combat when training gets logged like air to air refueling)

And as an aircrew, they were fun.
 
I don't know if I would complain to someone capable of firing up to 6000 rounds per minute....
 
Pugs said:
Never did a flyover that wasn't some part of another training evolution. Heck, just doing division formation work is a training qual we had to get every 60 days (IIRC). Military flying is not civilian flying. Every single flight has some training quals to be logged (eve in combat when training gets logged like air to air refueling).
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C'mon @Pugs, don't go messin' with people's worldview. :D

Nauga,
whose dance card is full
 
"What appears to be a cable is actually an optical illusion."
 
Clip4 said:
Military fly overs are a waste of tax payer $$ and honestly pro football already rips the tax payers off plenty.
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Marketing to drive enlistment?

also, I heard the military pays for permission to fly over?
 
kaiser said:
Marketing to drive enlistment?

also, I heard the military pays for permission to fly over?
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DoD doesn’t specifically pay the NFL for permission. The NFL, among various other sports organizations get paid millions a year for advertising. That comes out of a set recruiting budget. If flyovers were eliminated from the events, it wouldn’t change a dime in their recruiting budget. They’re paying the NFL money to host a ceremony (among other things) to entice new recruits. With a roughly 5 billion dollar recruiting / public affairs budget, that type of marketing is a drop in the overall budget. We could argue their recruiting budget needs to be cut but that’s a whole other issue.

The flyover itself is a separate affair that funds are from the unit’s flying hour program. Each fiscal year the unit is allotted X number of hours for pilot proficiency. Generally, units don’t even come close to the hours allotted. Even the 101st, while a busy division, I guarantee they aren’t meeting their total hours. A flyover like this is well within their FHP. Not to mention, we used to take aircraft in XC flights just to get them into a maintenance flow. These aircraft could have easily been picked by “aircraft (serial number) is coming up for a 500 hr. Go put X number of hours on it to put it in the window.”

The other argument is that this isn’t training. On the contrary, while part of a public affairs authorization mission, it still must meet a training role. You’ve got several authorized training mission tasks being displayed here. If not over the stadium on this given day, they’d still be used but elsewhere.
 
Paraphrasing a senior Junior Officer squadron mate back in the day:

"Why do I make up my own low level routes? Because the Permission / Forgiveness Algorithm favors the bold aviator!"

But the Authority Attendance Algorithm at NFL games favors the prudent aviator, IMHO. ;)
 
A1Topgun said:
None of the chopper are equipped with "Cable Cutters"!
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I believe Apaches have cutters, last I knew anyway.

I love military flyovers, but I admit that one was way too low. No need to fly through the stadium. I find it funny the FAA is reportedly involved, my understanding is the FAA can't touch the military, they have no authority over them. That being said I can see the military doing an internal investigation.

I am curious of the rank of those doing the flyover. One of the last issues like this was a group of T-38s that were way below the assigned altitude, but the lead pilot was a senior officer on one of his last flights. One last hurrah before he left, what was the worst they could do? Kick him out?
 
[QUOTE="midwestpa24, post: 3178131, member: 27758" One last hurrah before he left, what was the worst they could do? Kick him out?[/QUOTE]

Courts martial, lose all pension and benefits.
 
AH-64s have 95% frontal cutter protection for wires and really one of the first designed like that rather than post production modifications…the cockpit windows have a saw like structure in the frontal frame that you don’t see as it’s got a filler that masks the cutter…yeah a little low and somebody going to loose some ass or worse for sure…then again sort of pre everyone had a camera I participated in a similar flyby at Kyle Field that was impromptu during a football game…flight of six I believe AH-64s on the way to FT Hood. Aggie Battalion Commander was lead and Safety Officer flying with them…Aggies came from behind to win and nothing else happened…
 
midwestpa24 said:
I love military flyovers, but I admit that one was way too low. No need to fly through the stadium. I find it funny the FAA is reportedly involved, my understanding is the FAA can't touch the military, they have no authority over them. That being said I can see the military doing an internal investigation.
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If they are it's likely through their relevant military liaison. The FAA can take action against any civilian ratings the pilots had but not much influence on their military status.
 
Well.... On the plus side, they were all multi engine and a low Gr weight.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I believe Apaches have cutters, last I knew anyway.

I love military flyovers, but I admit that one was way too low. No need to fly through the stadium. I find it funny the FAA is reportedly involved, my understanding is the FAA can't touch the military, they have no authority over them. That being said I can see the military doing an internal investigation.

I am curious of the rank of those doing the flyover. One of the last issues like this was a group of T-38s that were way below the assigned altitude, but the lead pilot was a senior officer on one of his last flights. One last hurrah before he left, what was the worst they could do? Kick him out?
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Other than the CH-47 all of the aircraft in that formation have wire strike protection systems. However, WSPS isn’t a 100 % save all against all wires. Could easily damage the aircraft depending on angle and type of wire.

While the FAA doesn’t have authority in punishing the aviators here, they have the rule making authority. In this case, unless a waiver had been obtained (doubtful) they’re limited to 500 ft AGL. The gray area is the FAR min altitude as applicable to helicopters. The request for a military aerial event actually goes through the local FSDO as well.

BB7FAE49-D46A-440E-A6A2-73B1DE377A05.jpeg

CH-47 wire strike
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-chinook-looks-like-after-a-power-line-strike
 
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Pugs said:
If they are it's likely through their relevant military liaison. The FAA can take action against any civilian ratings the pilots had but not much influence on their military status.
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The FAA does however, fwd the action to the individual's Commander for whatever he may wish to do and to whom.
 
Maxnr said:
The FAA does however, fwd the action to the individual's Commander for whatever he may wish to do and to whom.
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Sure! My only time to get called was when NAS Oceana didn't send our ADIZ penetration segment of the flight plan out. The Atlantic City lawn darts likely needed the flight time anyway. :D
 
For me, this is deja vu.

In 2011, there was an Air Force flyover at Kinnick Stadium, in Iowa City, that cleared the scoreboard by only 58 feet. I was there, among 70,000 fans, and I was very surprised at what I saw.

The AF investigated, and threatened court martial for the lead pilot. He instead accepted a demotion and resigned.

About the AF investigation:

To avoid future problems, the investigation recommended an experienced instructor pilot should fly in the backseat of one aircraft during flyovers, target altitudes must be set beforehand and video recording and altitude warning systems should be used by aircraft that have them.​

According to the story linked below, the other pilots didn't seem to have much choice in the matter -- they said they were angry that their lead pilot caused them to fly so low. But I'm not sure if I believe they're really innocent, especially since the team was actually practicing the day before at altitudes less than 1000' over the same stadium.
​
Pilot in low Kinnick flyover blamed other air traffic | The Gazette
 
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Bill said:
I too thought it was cool, and would have been cool with it had I been at the game. Too many Karens these days...
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as an homage to U-571: bunch of marys
 
I'm old.
In my younger days, the Air Force would send out entire squadrons to "show the flag". It was not unusual to see the fighters out of Stewart Field, in close formation, roaring up and down the Hudson.
Then the Army would get in the act with their helicopters, and if the fleet was in New York harbor, they would launch whatever they had brought with them.
I witnessed Navy and Air Force F-86s and Navy Furies dog fighting over the Hudson Valley.
Honestly, I believe those displays were far less dangerous than getting into cars that had no seat belts, barely adequate mechanical brakes, or trying to cross the street in front of them.
My majority of one misses those days.
 
Is it possible that the choppers were flying so low that the players had to kneel during the National Anthem????? Asking for a friend....

Kneeling-During-The-National-Anthem-Colin.png
 
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Velocity173 said:
Like to know where the retired FAA guy got “1,000 ft above the highest obstacle.” DoD regs for both RW and FW state 500 ft.
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Yeah, yesterday I sent the author of that article an e-mail about some of the mistakes in the story. No response yet...
 
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