GPS upgrade advice for future glass panel

S

systemloc

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
28
Display Name
Display name:
SystemLoc
Hi! I have a 28V only GNS 430W in my 14V piper! No 14/28v convertor installed. It works but COM transmit power is reduced and makes me hard to hear. Thinking of options to remedy this.

I have a typical 80’s steam gauge plane that has been upgraded with that GPS, a Garmin GPSmap as a secondary GPS, and an Aspen panel. I still have vacuum and a backup vacuum system.

I’m thinking long term of options to drop the vacuum system. I also want a PFD with traffic, weather and synthetic vision. Currently I don’t have this on the Aspen but I think it is capable with a compatible gps and a software upgrade. I would also like to upgrade to a certified engine monitor and lose the old gauges. I would love if the engine monior integrated into an MFD for a big glass look.

Currently, I’m thinking of either getting a Garmin 14-28v convertor, which would be cheap, or upgrading to a new GPS. My friend really strongly reccomends the IFD 440.

If I just get a voltage convertor that solves the immediate issue cheaply except for that the unit is not servicable by Garmin if it breaks. If I go with a new GPS, It should give me more functionality from the Aspen panel, but I want to ensure I get something that plays nice with future upgrades. Also if I go Avidyne, I cant get package deal updates for my gps map, but my buddy thinks I should get rid of it and just put an ipad mount and use that as a backup.

Another consideration if I replace the Aspen panel later on, the new PFD must have an interface for an analog autopilot, Century 41.

I’d love any input on long term options for glass as well as thoughts on what to do with my current GPS in the short term.
 
Since the 430 is basically end of life, I wouldn’t he throwing money at it.
 
Yeah that was my thought.

I forgot to mention, the 430 has a GDL 88 that does my ADS B in and out and gives weather and traffic on the 430. I haven’t been able to find if the Avidyne 440 will integrate with that or if Im buying a new ADSB adapter/transponder. My current transponder is the original King piece
 
systemloc said:
Currently, I’m thinking of either getting a Garmin 14-28v convertor, which would be cheap
Click to expand...
If by "cheap" you mean "really cheap" (relative to a GPS upgrade), that's not a bad plan.
systemloc said:
Another consideration if I replace the Aspen panel later on, the new PFD must have an interface for an analog autopilot, Century 41.
Click to expand...
I believe a pair of Garmin GI275's will drive a Century 41, including the flight director.

But you said you wanted a "big glass" look. If you absolutely must keep the C41, then I think you'd need to step up to a G500 for that. Otherwise, ditch the old Century and go G3x+GFC500 if your plane is on the AML.
systemloc said:
I forgot to mention, the 430 has a GDL 88 that does my ADS B in and out and gives weather and traffic on the 430.
Click to expand...
An IFD440 can serve as a position source that the GDL88 needs for ADSB-Out. As I recall, the GDL88 uses the GDL90 protocol for TIS-B/FIS-B (ADSB-In) and the IFD440 can speak that language as well.
 
G500 looks nice. If I could get integrated engine monitor with it that would fit the bill. But an avidyne gps would not be the thing to get if I went that direction. I was thinking Dynon or Avidyne glass would be as good as the garmin glass at a better price point though.

as far as interfacing the ifd 440 with the gdl 88, do you know if the 440 will display trafic, weather, and metars fro the gdl, or would i have to “upgrade” it to a skytrax?


I really like the c41 AP. It flies well. It’s actively supported and People seem happy with Century’s customer care. I don’t see the point in paying for a new AP unless there is strong reason to.
 
At this point I would not be spending any money on keeping a non-WAAS GNS 430 going, but if all you need is a converter, maybe I'd do that. If upgrades are coming either way, then it's time to move on from the "straight" GNS 430. It's the end of the road for that unit.
 
systemloc said:
as far as interfacing the ifd 440 with the gdl 88, do you know if the 440 will display trafic, weather, and metars fro the gdl, or would i have to “upgrade” it to a skytrax?
Click to expand...
I believe that both the GDL88 and IFD440 each speak/understand the GDL90 protocol, therefore the 440 should display traffic and weather from the GDL88.
Ryan F. said:
At this point I would not be spending any money on keeping a non-WAAS GNS 430 going...
Click to expand...
Post #1 mentioned non-WAAS?
 
The IFD is a GREAT product. I went from a Garmin GNS 530W to an Avidyne IFD 540. Fantastic upgrade. Much more intuitive. Outstanding customer support. My only regret is that I didn’t make the upgrade sooner.

Chase Larrabee at www.avionicssource.com is a great resource and Avidyne dealer. I’ve done two deals with him and they were as smooth as can be!
 
Key question for the Garmin / Avidyne decision: if the GFC500 a/p should be a possible option for the future, the Avidyne is off the table for a formal reason. Garmin does not list the IFD series as an acceptable source. Yes, there are installs in the field featuring the GFC500/IFD combo and they are reportedly working very well. But Garmin put a lot of effort into the wording to prevent this.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
The IFD is a GREAT product. I went from a Garmin GNS 530W to an Avidyne IFD 540. Fantastic upgrade. Much more intuitive. Outstanding customer support. My only regret is that I didn’t make the upgrade sooner.

Chase Larrabee at www.avionicssource.com is a great resource and Avidyne dealer. I’ve done two deals with him and they were as smooth as can be!
Click to expand...

I head to FL tomorrow in the Archer to see my folks and while down there Jesse @ https://saintaviation.com will be swapping our GNS 530W out for a IFD 540 as phase 1 of our panel upgrade. It goes back in late Feb for the panel clean up and install of the Dynon HDX. I've run through all the training stuff on the 540 and it's very intuitive. Jesse's been great to work with.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
I noticed there’s no switches to turn off AP and electric trim…I thought that was required in case of a malfunction? Or they just rely on using the circuit breaker?
Click to expand...
There are CB’s not in the photo
 
Personally, I hate the Avidyne logic. Nearly as much buttonology as a 430, for no good reason. I'd get a 650 or 750 and be done. Plus, Garmin will probably give you decent money for your 430, which doesn't have the market value of a 14/28 WAAS model, just for the screen for repair jobs.
 
N1120A said:
Personally, I hate the Avidyne logic. Nearly as much buttonology as a 430, for no good reason. I'd get a 650 or 750 and be done. Plus, Garmin will probably give you decent money for your 430, which doesn't have the market value of a 14/28 WAAS model, just for the screen for repair jobs.
Click to expand...

I have flown behind both, and in my opinion the Avidyne is a far superior piece of equipment. Much easier to input data, and far fewer button pushes or knob twists. The menu logic is much more intuitive. I attended an Avidyne webinar, and the presenter inputted a route. He said it took approximately 60 button pushers or knob twists, and it would’ve taken 300 on the Garmin.. I disliked my Garmin for the five years that I had it, and absolutely love the Avidyne.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
I have flown behind both, and in my opinion the Avidyne is a far superior piece of equipment. Much easier to input data, and far fewer button pushes or knob twists. The menu logic is much more intuitive. I attended an Avidyne webinar, and the presenter inputted a route. He said it took approximately 60 button pushers or knob twists, and it would’ve taken 300 on the Garmin.. I disliked my Garmin for the five years that I had it, and absolutely love the Avidyne.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. Someone should invent someway to upload a route via bluetooth, like from Foreflight, garmin pilot (not sure of the name) or whatever the avidyne app is called. What is the avidyne app called? I want to check it out. Foreflight seems pretty low on the button push count.
 
4RNB said:
Thanks for this. Someone should invent someway to upload a route via bluetooth, like from Foreflight, garmin pilot (not sure of the name) or whatever the avidyne app is called. What is the avidyne app called? I want to check it out. Foreflight seems pretty low on the button push count.
Click to expand...

Foreflight and my Avidyne IFD540 transfer flight plans between each other seamlessly. I can create a flight plan in either unit and easily transfer it to the other.

Avidyne has the IFD100 app that runs on the iPad. It mirrors the panel mount IFD. I don’t use it, but my understanding is that it is very simple to display the same flight plan on both units.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
I have flown behind both, and in my opinion the Avidyne is a far superior piece of equipment. Much easier to input data, and far fewer button pushes or knob twists. The menu logic is much more intuitive. I attended an Avidyne webinar, and the presenter inputted a route. He said it took approximately 60 button pushers or knob twists, and it would’ve taken 300 on the Garmin.. I disliked my Garmin for the five years that I had it, and absolutely love the Avidyne.
Click to expand...

You're comparing it to a 430/530, not a 650/750.
 
N1120A said:
You're comparing it to a 430/530, not a 650/750.
Click to expand...

I've got some time with the GTN 750 and GTN 530 and as of 6.7 hours yesterday (and a couple after install flying it in FL) flying it home from FL, the Avidyne IFD540 in our Archer. Have to say so far I find the Avodyne much easier to figure out. Yes, I used the trainer and watched the videos beforehand. The plane goes back for a Dynon Skyview and an AP in Feb so it will be complete.


Azt7W0t.jpg
 
N1120A said:
Personally, I hate the Avidyne logic. Nearly as much buttonology as a 430, for no good reason.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting comment. Yes, you can operate an IFD very close to the same way you operate a 430, i.e. by dialing in one letter at a time with the rotary knobs, adding one fix of your route at a time. And yes, if you do that, it may seem as if the buttonology between the 430 and the IFD is the same.

But you would leave much if the IFD's user interface unused if you did that. Between the on-screen keyboard (or Bluetooth) and the geo-fill algorithm and the airways in the database, entering a complex route into the IFD takes a small fraction of the steps it takes in the 430 or 530.

- Martin
 
Martin Pauly said:
That's an interesting comment. Yes, you can operate an IFD very close to the same way you operate a 430, i.e. by dialing in one letter at a time with the rotary knobs, adding one fix of your route at a tse, but it’s talking to a G3X autopilot system. And yes, if you do that, it may seem as if the buttonology between the 430 and the IFD is the same.

But you would leave much if the IFD's user interface unused if you did that. Between the on-screen keyboard (or Bluetooth) and the geo-fill algorithm and the airways in the database, entering a complex route into the IFD takes a small fraction of the steps it takes in the 430 or 530.

- Martin
Click to expand...

I'm not saying the IFDs are not better than a 430/530 - they definitely are. But I've seen enough in practice to see that en route navigation takes nearly as many keystrokes and/or knob turns, which puts a dampener on them. At this point, the IFD comparison is no longer with the legacy Garmin products, but their direct competition - the 650/750, where the interface is much more streamlined.
 
Last edited:
Upgrading to a IFD440 from a 430 will be easier as well since the tray and backplate are identical. Moving to a 650 would require more install hours.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top