Thinking About Kids Dirt Bikes

[szwinger]

I taught my two daughters to ride. It's been said previously but I also think the most important criteria is to be able to touch the ground flat footed with both feet. This is followed closely by a light enough bike that they can pick it up by themselves including on a hill or incline.

The grand kids are 3 and 5 so I'm beginning to look for bikes for them. I will probably re-buy the same bikes. If you buy a Honda XR (CRF now I believe) or a Yamaha PW it's like burying money in the back yard. You can sell them easily and quickly for almost as much as you paid for them. For this reason I bought new because used bikes where almost as much and I never knew how they were cared for. Here's my list:

PW50 This is an iconic bike. Very many famous professional riders started out on a PW50. Never sell it. Grandkids, nieces and nephews even grown ups love it.

LEM 50 - Closest you can get now is a KTM 50 SX. They are a little high strung. Not sure if there's a 4 stroke equivalent now.

PW80 - 3 speed auto clutch. A little heavy but low seat height. 2 stroke. There's probably an equivalent 4 stroke now.

KX 60 - Small, light and a real clutch. 2 stroke. A bit high strung. Probably a 4 stroke equivalent now.

KX100/XR80 One daughter learned on the XR the younger one the KX.

CR125 - two stroke

KTM SX150 - These are cool fun bikes. I have one now.

CRF/YZ/KXF/RMZ 250 - My youngest (28 now) rides a CRF250.

My experience has been a good (Shoei, Arai, Leatt, etc) helmet is important. It should fit well and be replaced if crashed upon. That said, rarely have I seen the helmet damaged. It does happen and that's why a good one is important insurance (hopefully only insurance, never needed). Usually it's wrists and collarbones for new riders until they learn how to crash. People I know either learn how to crash or they quit riding. I've been riding for 50 years. I know how to crash but I've also had to replace a helmet or two. Usually writing the check for the helmet is more painful than the crash (or what I remember of the crash).

 

[Brad W]

I had a little mini-bike powered by something like a briggs and stratton engine for a while in middle school. Then Dad bought me a Honda XR-75. That was a great little bike...quiet, perfect size, could ride seemingly all day on a tank of gas.... not really but a long time. when I was 13 or 14 I talked my self into trading "up" to a used YZ-80 2-stroke. Much faster more powerful, but loud and thirsty.

I suggest purpose built riding boots, gloves, chest protectors, etc.... I trail rode for years on the XR-75 without them and when I finally got an old set with that YZ-80 it was a game changer!

I haven't riden in years & I don't know much about the new models.... except a few weeks ago I heard that sound down the road in my neighborhood....that 2-stroke ding-ding-ding.... and was instantly brought back into. Had to go find the source....one of my neighbors had just bought his sons little bikes...one a kawasaki and the other a KTM...and himself a new KTM 250 I believe it was.

I was never a fan of suzuki's...a buddy had one and it wasn't very good. Sure things are all different now though and that ancient history means nothing.

Anyway, if I had some trails nearby where I could ride me and my son would almost certainly have some bikes. Maybe daughters too.....

 

[Brad W]

good point about mountain bikes. Many years after I stopped riding motorcycles, I got into tail riding with a coworker that also used to ride motocross bikes. It was in many way at least just as much fun.... either way, motor or pedal a lot depends on what you have available for riding grounds.

 

[Gary Ward]

I know this isn’t part of the thought process, but don’t get one of the old Honda 3-wheel ATVs. I’m surprised none of us were killed or maimed.

LOL
We started out renting honda atc200 3 wheelers from U haul on the weekends! Rode it in our 1 acre back yard with a cambered hill you had to come down with a bush at the bottom that almost everyone got sucked into at first. It was fun to watch! lo! We rented it quite a few weekends.
It was about 1982-84, about everyone who first rode it crashed until they learned to use "body english" while riding it. Luckily no one died from my crowd.

Bought this new in 85-86 to pull a rough cut mower to use on some steep hill's on my property. Used it for that for 15 years. Kaw KLT 250CC 4 stroke.
Towed many race cars at the track, been to many state/Nat parks/camping trips. Part of the family...lol.
It has a locking and unlocking differential so I can unlock the rear end for easy turns on turf and good for the ladys.
Been rolled many times, tough as nails, original motor, still runs good. Runs on 100LL! Sept this year 2021. Owned a couple 4 wheeler s, only have this 3 wheeler left.

 

[Ted]

I really appreciate the input here. I think this has given me a few thoughts:

1) I do want one of the Japanese kids motorcycles for my son

2) For the girls, that may be a little more questionable just based on size, but we'll see. Maybe an electric, or maybe something else

3) Used kids bikes aren't necessarily a "run away" item, but new may be close enough to make it worth buying

We'll give things some more thought and see.

 

[Ted]

I’m revisiting this, now that Christmas is past and also now hat I have my Moto Morini which I hope to get running in the coming weeks. Brakes are another matter; but once it runs and rides stopping won’t be too big of an issue.

I haven’t taken my kids to try anything. Size wise they’re all “ultimate average”, pretty much right at 50th percentile. Girls are 7, boy is 9.

I’m leaning towards star Isn’t finding something smaller/lighter than ideal for the boy like a TTR50 or PW50. Thinking avoid the KTM 50 since it’s a 2-stroke and then really more like a 100cc 4-stroke. He might not even last the season with it, but it would start him off on something a bit more reasonable speed wise and then the girls then naturally get it (and we gift it more as a shared asset at this point), and then look for something like a TTR90 for boy.

I probably need to look a bit more at things (and look in person) but this seems like it might set things up for better success for them.

 

[Ted]

We're getting a bit more serious about buying something for the kids, and stopped by one local dealer. The smaller intro bike they had that they recommended was a "Thumpstar 110". 110cc Chinese engine single-cylinder, but an Australian brand and supposedly designed and built in Australia.

Actually seeing the thing in person (despite it having a published 29" seat height) it seemed like it would probably be a good height for the kids. Big enough to be a bit on the largerish side, but could grow into. I'm still not entirely sure what I think of a 110cc for the starter, but from what's been said on here it's really not a bad place to start off. I think the real key with any of it is controlling when and how fast they have an opportunity to ride.

I'm curious if anyone has heard of this off-brand. Supposedly it's essentially a step in between the cheap Chinese bikes (which have terrible suspensions and are just not very good) and the name brand Japanese bikes. On the surface, that does sound like it might be a good middle ground and price point for what we're going for.

 

[TCABM]

Not familiar with the brand, but they seem to have a good reputation going back as far as 2005. I’d dump money there before I’d go Chinesium.

 

[Ted]

Not familiar with the brand, but they seem to have a good reputation going back as far as 2005. I’d dump money there before I’d go Chinesium.

That's sort of what we're seeing. Not made of Chineseum, and cheap enough that it's a worthwhile experiment.

 

[FormerHangie]

Personally, I'm allergic to dirt bikes, but I am familiar with their needs. They live rough lives, and a failure on one quite often requires a trip to urgent care or worse. For that reason I'd favor something that's of a known quality.

 

[Ted]

We took the kids to sit on some bikes, and ended up coming home with a TTR50:



(that's one of the girls (7) on it)

In the end, it seems like it's probably the best middle ground of all. We tried putting the kids on that Thumpstar 110. Our 9 year old could barely touch the ground, and we figured that would end up being problematic. We probably would've gotten a TTR110 if there was one locally available, but there wasn't. We got a decent price on this one (the only TTR50 or 110 in the KC area available new) so while we'll lose some money when we sell it after they outgrow the thing, it won't be awful and it should be more or less maintenance-free in that time period being new and a Yamaha (which is a big deal for me in this case as I really don't want to be messing around with the kids bikes). I like the fact that it's low power and lets them get a solid footing in the basics, and we bought it with the understanding we won't get a ton of time out of it, and the boy will probably only be able to ride it this season. After that, we might look at that Thumpstar 110 again for him, or a 110.

The boy complained that it was too small for him and he wouldn't be able to ride it. Of course, the complaint was because he wanted the bigger green bike with a radioactive sticker on it that he could barely touch the ground with and would've had about 2x the power. So I proceeded to jump on the little TTR50 when we got home and ride it around the property to prove the point that he will be able to ride it just fine. Even our one girl who was more timid at first wanted to try it, although decided quickly she didn't want to keep going with it. I think she'll come around. But it's a middle ground - fits the girls more or less perfectly, maybe a hair on the smaller side for the boy. Not too much power for any of them (which is the real desire). Helps to keep them out of trouble while they learn the basics, and also having only one makes a forcing function for me to work with one of them at a time on drills, etc. while they learn stuff. The timid one will probably grow into riding it some with time.

The thing has a 3-speed transmission - neutral down, 1-2-3 up. Centrifugal clutch, which is a benefit for them just learning I think. I just ran them around in 1st gear yesterday and the two who weren't timid about it had a blast.

I'm going to have to get better at riding off road to keep up with them before long on this thing.

 

[texasclouds]

I have fond memories riding bikes with family and friends. Do it. They’ll also learn a bit about maintenance and carburetors. Some of that will translate to understanding how an airplane engine runs.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Looks like a good fit. I always love that Yamaha blue.

 

[sourdough44]

CRF-80 when the older son was growing up, sold it for near what I paid for it. Later on he got his cycle endorsement with the driver’s license. I’ve always monitored the operating, he doesn’t have a motorcycle now.

I just felt it’s better to learn young, under supervision.

 

[Ted]

I just felt it’s better to learn young, under supervision.

I agree. I was essentially self-taught on motorcycles, and by the time I took my MSF course I was on my second motorcycle and riding it to class some nights. It worked, but was sub-ideal. Then again, I didn't drop them much. Dropped my first bike only once (a 84 Kawasaki KZ700 with 100k miles) when I decided to try riding it through the front yard, hit the block of wood separating the grass from the pavement at a 45 degree angle, and the thing went down. My second bike (a Bandit 1200S) I think I dropped twice, but I only remember once, when I was turning sharper than I should've in a parking lot and went over.

So far, the kids have managed to drop this TTR50 3 times. The boy who was complaining it was too small dropped it twice. Not because it was too small, because he wasn't using the controls properly. He went to hit the front brake and didn't let off the throttle, so basically initiated a powerslide and low sided the thing twice. So yeah, I think this was the right choice size wise for them to get the basics on.

 

[pilot117]

You made a great choice for a lot of great reasons. You would have been sorry had you purchased the Chinese bike, both from the size and the difficulty with selling when the time comes. You won't lose much on that TTR when you sell, and it will probably be the most hassle free sale you've ever had. They're a know commodity with a known value and there's more demand than there is supply.

One suggestion I'd make is the utilization of 2nd & 3rd gears. I know it's a little counter intuitive because we know a bigger gear can yield more speed which is not what we want. However, the one thing that gets new riders in trouble more than anything is abrupt response to throttle input. People use 1st gear a lot because they feel you can't go fast enough in first gear to get in trouble. The problem is the thing can still jerk the bars out of their hands at a very low speed with a sudden response to twisting the throttle in first gear. Put the thing in second gear at low speed & low rpms, and it doesn't have enough power to accelerate the big gear quickly. They still need 1st gear to get going, but teach them to shift to 2nd early and lug it around at low rpms and the speed will stay low and the response to throttle inputs will be slower and more manageable as they learn.

 

[Ted]

One suggestion I'd make is the utilization of 2nd & 3rd gears. I know it's a little counter intuitive because we know a bigger gear can yield more speed which is not what we want. However, the one thing that gets new riders in trouble more than anything is abrupt response to throttle input. People use 1st gear a lot because they feel you can't go fast enough in first gear to get in trouble. The problem is the thing can still jerk the bars out of their hands at a very low speed with a sudden response to twisting the throttle in first gear. Put the thing in second gear at low speed & low rpms, and it doesn't have enough power to accelerate the big gear quickly. They still need 1st gear to get going, but teach them to shift to 2nd early and lug it around at low rpms and the speed will stay low and the response to throttle inputs will be slower and more manageable as they learn.

I'd had a similar thought. I think they could realistically start off in second gear just fine, and it is less responsive. The response of first gear on the thing is surprisingly peppy.

 

[Ted]

The TTR50 has been getting a lot of hours and a lot of use on it since January when we bought it for the kids. Funny enough, it doesn't look new anymore after a few falls. But the 2 out of the 3 kids who've been using it are really getting pretty good with it, and are a real workout for me to keep up with.

One of our girls who tends to be more timid hasn't wanted to ride it. She tried the first day we brought it back, but got spooked when it moved a bit too hard from some throttle movement. She's been having fun riding up the driveway on the tank of the BMW when I'm getting ready to go to work, but that's been about it.

But, we have some friends visiting - my friends with the R1200GSA who I ride with in New York. I taught him to ride about 15 years ago, and she has had a couple of false starts with some bad MSF experiences. And really, the pace of a weekend MSF course is probably not the best for her anyway. So they came out here, bought @jesse 's cheap Chinese dirt bike, and I've been teaching her.

Yesterday, the third daughter decided after watching me teach this friend to ride, that she wanted to try it herself. After about 15 minutes of showing her the controls and having her just walk with the bike under power, she took off and spent another hour or two riding around. Now, all three kids officially can ride the dirt bike.

Huge smiles all around, and probably the best money spent on anything for the kids.

 

[Fiveslide]

You made a great choice in the TTR, but I kinda feel the need to defend the Chinese 110cc engines. I'm on year 4 with 3 of them. Two i bought thoroughly used for $250 each, the third i bought new in a go-kart. They've all been pretty flawless. I've had to put a clutch in the most used one, $38 from Amazon. They usually need a carburator every year, about $20 on Amazon. Get tires and plastics off Amazon.

I think they get a bad rep from people that don't do the bare minimum to keep them running.

Kids outgrow these things fast, they're a good budget option for people not racing. I plan on switching to one of the big four whe the kid is able to ride an 85 two stroke or the Honda 150.

I also have a pw50 that the kid never touched if anyone in VA or NC wants to buy it.

 

[Ted]

You made a great choice in the TTR, but I kinda feel the need to defend the Chinese 110cc engines. I'm on year 4 with 3 of them. Two i bought thoroughly used for $250 each, the third i bought new in a go-kart. They've all been pretty flawless. I've had to put a clutch in the most used one, $38 from Amazon. They usually need a carburator every year, about $20 on Amazon. Get tires and plastics off Amazon.

I think they get a bad rep from people that don't do the bare minimum to keep them running.

Kids outgrow these things fast, they're a good budget option for people not racing. I plan on switching to one of the big four whe the kid is able to ride an 85 two stroke or the Honda 150.

I also have a pw50 that the kid never touched if anyone in VA or NC wants to buy it.

I agree with your points on the China bikes overall. That’s what I’m using to teach my friend on, and it’s while it’s junk it does remarkably decent for what it is and the price. But, you can also tell where it’s cheap and poorly done. One area where it’s really bad is suspension.

But for me and knowing that at least 2 kids would use this for a few years (and that I have enough other things to work on) it was worth it getting a Yamaha that I figured would just always start.

 

[Skyrys62]

For some reason, I'm envisioning this as Ted's kids very soon....

 

[Fiveslide]

But, you can also tell where it’s cheap and poorly done. One area where it’s really bad is suspension.

But for me and knowing that at least 2 kids would use this for a few years (and that I have enough other things to work on) it was worth it getting a Yamaha that I figured would just always start.

Oh, absolutely, there is no suspension. I, too, might have made different decisions if I had a pack of kids all going to be starting on the thing over the years.

The pw50 I bought for $400. Ive nearly replaced everything on it. Handlebars, grips, Start/run switch, wheels and tires, exhaust, carb, throttle and choke cables, foot pegs, piston, rings, wrist pin bearing. Put training wheels on it. It has probably traveled 500' since all that.

Then, the kid just didn't want to ride it. I think his autism makes him hate the sound of a two stroke. I hope he grows out of that, cause I love two stroke bikes.

 

[Fiveslide]

This Chinese product probably has four hundred hours on it, at least. I know it's an ATV, but it's the same engine and electrics. Pic from last January before I put new plastics on it.

For those looking at them, learn how to change the oil, and do it religiously. Learn how to change the carb. These things will last much longer than you expect.

 

[Ted]

When we bought the TTR50, we knew that it was a bit on the smaller side for our son and that he'd outgrow it quickly. But it was also mandatory that we get something that the girls could ride, too. So today we went back to the dealer and bought the next size up, a TTR110:



It fits our son about perfectly and he's happy with the upgrade. Figured we'd stick with the Yamaha products since they're significantly cheaper than the other brands in this size range (for reasons I don't fully understand). This one still has a centrifugal clutch, but is a 4 speed instead of a 3.

So now the girls are the official only riders of the 50.

 

[johnhhbo]

I have bought a Yamaha TTR125LE dirt bike for my son. It features a clutch, a 5-speed transmission, and a 4-stroke, air-cooled engine.