Alec Baldwin shoots and kills cinematographer.

Lachlan said:
You should get a law passed that says that. ;)
Click to expand...

There are tons and tons and tons of gun laws, honestly too many.

But if you’re ignorant to firearms, and due to your gross negligence shoot and kill someone, that’s against the law, in every state since forever.
 
Lachlan said:
Even if they’re only curious children?
Click to expand...
Reminds me of a fuzzy memory. I couldn't have been more than maybe 6-7 years old or something.... visiting my grandparents. They lived on a farm way out in the very rural KY mountains. One night in the living room....everyone is sitting around talking...with me sitting on the floor and I noticed a revolver style cap gun laying on the floor under the end table. I decided wouldn't it be funny if I point it in the air...starting pistol style, and wake this crowd up a bit? I still remember the look on dad's and grandpa's face as they lunged to stop me and take the thing away. Stopped me just in time!

Regardless, even at that young age I knew not to point a cap gun at people....but they would have had a leaky roof if I had fired that thing (hint...it wasn't a cap gun)
 
Baldwin is an elite, and will get a slap on the wrist. Had you or I done this we’d face serious consequences, but for him this will be a nothingburger.

That said, he is the producer, ie the one paying the bills. If he hired sub standard crew and staff, that’s on him. Except, oh yeah, he’s an elite….
 
Bill said:
Baldwin is an elite, and will get a slap on the wrist. Had you or I done this we’d face serious consequences, but for him this will be a nothingburger.

That said, he is the producer, ie the one paying the bills. If he hired sub standard crew and staff, that’s on him. Except, oh yeah, he’s an elite….
Click to expand...

Yup, I agree.
 
Bill said:
Baldwin is an elite, and will get a slap on the wrist. Had you or I done this we’d face serious consequences, but for him this will be a nothingburger.

That said, he is the producer, ie the one paying the bills. If he hired sub standard crew and staff, that’s on him. Except, oh yeah, he’s an elite….
Click to expand...
I fear this may be correct. In 2014 a camera assistant, Sarah Jones, was killed by a train because the production was shooting on an active track without permission. It's referred to as "stealing" a shot, an abhorrent practice in the profession. An entire movement happened on a crew level to change these kind of practices. Her name was put on every slate for a long time and they had to fight to get her name read at the academy awards that year when they remember people in the business that died. The director ultimately spent a year in prison and is back making movies again.
One story here...
 
Alec Baldwin assistant director had history of unsafe practices, prop maker says

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ory-unsafe-practices-prop-maker-says-n1282226

LOS ANGELES — The assistant director on the set of "Rust" where Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins had previously allowed an unsafe working environment on productions, according to a prop maker who worked with him.

Dave Halls "at first he seemed like an older, affable first [assistant director] with the usual run of idiosyncrasies, but that facade soon disappeared," according to prop maker Maggie Goll, who said she was called to work on Hulu's "Into the Dark" anthology series in February 2019.

"He did not maintain a safe working environment," Goll said in a detailed statement to NBC News. "Sets were almost always allowed to become increasingly claustrophobic, no established fire lanes, exits blocked ... safety meetings were nonexistent."

According to court records, Halls handed the prop gun to Baldwin before the fatal shooting at the Bonanza Ranch in New Mexico, indicating incorrectly that the weapon didn't carry live rounds by yelling "cold gun."...​
 
PaulS said:
i rented a tux 2 months ago for my son's wedding. The guy renting the tux told me he gets "producer" credit in movies for supplying a few tuxes to use in the productions, no charge of course.
Click to expand...
It's called an Associate Producer and is a joke in the business. Steve Martin even made a movie about it called "State and Main".
 
https://nypost.com/2021/10/24/halyn...prop-gun-used-by-crew-off-set-for-fun-report/

The prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on a New Mexico movie set had been used by crew members offsite for fun, a new report claims.

The gun, which was fired by Alec Baldwin on the set of the movie “Rust,” may have even been loaded with live rounds when it was used for what was essentially target practice, TMZ reported.

Multiple sources connected to the production of the film told TMZ that the gun was fired at off-the-clock gatherings – which could explain how a live round found its way into the gun’s chamber.

Another source who was on set told the outlet that when cops arrived they found live ammo and blank rounds stored in the same area, where the fatal mix-up could have occurred.

Officials have not confirmed the claims, TMZ said....​
 
eman1200 said:
sorry, that's silly. as pilot you're responsible for fuel, no one else. on a film set, there are SPECILISTS who's sole job is to handle the firearm stuff so the other specialist, known as an actor, doesn't have to.
Click to expand...
I wonder if the armorer or safety officer or whatever they had warned about pointing any weapon at any person at any time.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
I’m pretty sure the gun safety rules, as we know them, aren’t operative on a film set, just like the aviation safety rules. There are rules, they’re extremely strict, and they apparently weren’t followed here. But when you say “never point a gun at something you don’t intend to shoot,” you might as well say “I have no idea what happens on a film set.” As for “there was no reason for him to point a gun at that woman,” you presume to know what the script says. Maybe I’m wrong, you’ve read it, and you know what scene they were working on.
Click to expand...

As this incident demonstrates, just like the laws of physics , the laws of gun safety are not suspended on a movie set. There are work arounds like harness and suspension systems, but gravity isn't negated just because the actor or stunt man is secured. Same applies rules #1 and #2 of gun safety. If you want to point a live gun at someone, there needs to be a '4 eyes' process in place that ensures that in this particular moment there is no live round in the chamber. This was reportedly negligent discharge #4 on that movie set, so whatever safety process producer Alec Baldwin approved was not sufficient.

Reportedly, this did not happen during filming of the scene. This happened during a dry run. The director and cinematographer were crouched behind a camera that was anticipated to be unmanned during the shoot itself.

This was a round that panetrated one person and injured another. This wasnt some wadding or the shock wave from a blank. How any live round would ever get close to a movie set is going to be another question that needs to be answered.
 
Last edited:
Bill said:
Baldwin is an elite, and will get a slap on the wrist. Had you or I done this we’d face serious consequences, but for him this will be a nothingburger.

That said, he is the producer, ie the one paying the bills. If he hired sub standard crew and staff, that’s on him. Except, oh yeah, he’s an elite….
Click to expand...

But Bladeslap said Baldwin is only B list actor. Oh, nooooo!
 
Bill said:
Baldwin is an elite, and will get a slap on the wrist. Had you or I done this we’d face serious consequences, but for him this will be a nothingburger.

That said, he is the producer, ie the one paying the bills. If he hired sub standard crew and staff, that’s on him. Except, oh yeah, he’s an elite….
Click to expand...
I expect the civil lawsuits will be expensive to settle, but not much else will happen.
 
Acknowledging that the US has more per capita guns than any other country except maybe Switzerland, here’s an idea: how about mandatory firearm safety classes in schools? Right now, most Americans — certainly most of the ruling class — have never touched a gun. Put gun safety in the curriculum and the gun becomes de-mystified.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Acknowledging that the US has more per capita guns than any other country except maybe Switzerland, here’s an idea: how about mandatory firearm safety classes in schools? Right now, most Americans — certainly most of the ruling class — have never touched a gun. Put gun safety in the curriculum and the gun becomes de-mystified.
Click to expand...

That just might work. Look how well sex ed eradicated ten pregnancies. ;)
 
Lachlan said:
That just might work. Look how well sex ed eradicated ten pregnancies. ;)
Click to expand...
We’ll, there’s that. But to be a valid comparison, the gun curriculum would have to say, “if you feel the urge to shoot someone, talk to your teachers, not your parents. And if you accidentally kill someone, we’ll help you hide the body.”

The content obviously matters.
 
It is always sad to see someone killed..no matter whose fault caused the death.

One thing that really bothers me is the news coverage.

The news is running this story non stop...previous non stop story story was the death of Gabby Petito...how about the dozen or so killed every weekend in Chicago and other big cities ? I guess those people don't matter...ratings are all that matters IBTL.
 
Lachlan said:
Even if they’re only curious children?
Click to expand...

i taught my son gun safety when he was eight years old. As a result of this incident and this thread on POA, I asked my son (now 15) what he would do if someone handed him a firearm. His response was instinctive: "Treat every firearm as if it was loaded, keep my finger off the trigger, never point the weapon at anything I didn't intend to destroy, clear the weapon."

IK04 said:
In that case, it is the parent's fault. Supervisory negligence.

Baldwin was also the Producer of this film. He is overall responsible. Same supervisory negligence.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Parents are responsible for minor children. In the case of firearms, parents are responsible for securing firearms where children cannot "accidentally" access them. Teaching children to respect firearms, be cognizant of their function, and the destruction potential of using a firearm is a parent's responsibility.
 
Last edited:
Matthew said:
I expect the civil lawsuits will be expensive to settle, but not much else will happen.
Click to expand...

This is going to be limited by whatever rules apply to workman's comp between NM and CA.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Acknowledging that the US has more per capita guns than any other country except maybe Switzerland, here’s an idea: how about mandatory firearm safety classes in schools? Right now, most Americans — certainly most of the ruling class — have never touched a gun. Put gun safety in the curriculum and the gun becomes de-mystified.
Click to expand...
Look at the uproar over CRT and imagine how much worse it could be if this idea were considered. "Your teaching them how to kill!!!" And there will be plenty of teachers that will simply refuse to teach it.

IBTL
 
OneCharlieTango said:
here’s an idea: how about mandatory firearm safety classes in schools?
Click to expand...
A most excellent idea! When I was in 6th grade in Idaho, Fish and Game sent instructors into the schools to teach gun safety, followed by range training with .22 rifles. Gun accidents are very rare out there, despite the high rate of gun ownership.
 
Palmpilot said:
For whatever reason, you know that you should never accept the assertion of another that a gun is safe. I know that because I've read this thread. I'm just not sure that it's realistic to expect that level of awareness of people who are not trained on gun safety.
Click to expand...
I don’t agree. Guns are designed to cause harm. That is why they exist. It’s not reasonable to delegate that responsibility away for anyone.

Just my opinion. Not saying you’re wrong. Just that if you’re right the law should change.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I don’t agree. Guns are designed to cause harm. That is why they exist. It’s not reasonable to delegate that responsibility away for anyone.

Just my opinion. Not saying you’re wrong. Just that if you’re right the law should change.
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about the law. I was talking about having realistic expectations. Lack of training is likely to have undesirable results.
 
Bill said:
Baldwin is an elite, and will get a slap on the wrist. Had you or I done this we’d face serious consequences, but for him this will be a nothingburger.

That said, he is the producer, ie the one paying the bills. If he hired sub standard crew and staff, that’s on him. Except, oh yeah, he’s an elite….
Click to expand...
Absolutely! And it does make me curious whether his ‘anti-gun’ views are for public portrayal or actually his own. As an elite, if he goes against the grain, he’d either be cancelled or rebuked. Lots of them don’t have the gonads for it, but I have a lot of respect for those who do. Nonetheless, I don’t care for any of the Baldwin brothers. They all seem like a bunch of self-centered douchebags.
 
Palmpilot said:
I wasn't talking about the law. I was talking about having realistic expectations. Lack of training is likely to have undesirable results.
Click to expand...
Somewhat like non-pilots, and some pilots, not having respect for the prop...
 
Lachlan said:
But Bladeslap said Baldwin is only B list actor. Oh, nooooo!
Click to expand...

Like Kathy Griffen, still a bad B lister, but still going to get away with stuff we would not be able to.

They’ll end up picking a sacrificial lamb from behind the camera, all will agree on it, this will go down the memory hole.
 
My prediction is Halls (the AD) is going to be spending some time in jail.

Baldwin as Producer will get hit with the wrongful death suit.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I don’t agree. Guns are designed to cause harm. That is why they exist.
Click to expand...
True, BUT - one could argue that they are designed to prevent harm also. If I lived many years ago and carried a sword to defend against tigers, lions, and bears, it does not mean that I intend harm on all bears, lions, and tigers - but that I want to preserve my own life. The attribution of intent to harm the innocent is what is offensive about saying that I own a gun because I want to kill someone.
 
RyanShort1 said:
True, BUT - one could argue that they are designed to prevent harm also. If I lived many years ago and carried a sword to defend against tigers, lions, and bears, it does not mean that I intend harm on all bears, lions, and tigers - but that I want to preserve my own life. The attribution of intent to harm the innocent is what is offensive about saying that I own a gun because I want to kill someone.
Click to expand...
That is not what I am saying. I own several firearms and have no intent to harm anyone.

Edit: I am saying that by choosing to posses a firearm I assume the responsibility for whatever the outcome is of possessing the firearm. It is by design a weapon of lethal force. I am responsible for how that force is applied. Not availing myself of training does not absolve me of that responsibility. Alec is a victim in this because he trusted and relied on other people to ensure safe possession an use of the firearm. He is also responsible for the events because ultimately the firearm was in his hands. He assumed a portion of the responsibility by making the choice to posses the weapon. That’s all I’m saying. There are lots of mitigating factors in this situation that should in fairness be considered but he should still be held accountable.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top