Club Chief Pilot (Non-CFI) Checkout Limitations

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Warfaire

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Warfaire
Hello,

In the process of joining a flight club. I am hearing from members as well as some others around the airport that when they went on a check out ride with the Chief Pilot; the Chief Pilot pulled the engine on multiple occasions during the flight. Also I hear also attempted to correct a proper procedure with a bad habit of their own.

The "Chief Pilot" of this club is not a CFI nor is even commercial rated.

Sounds to me like a ego trip but I for one am having 2nd thoughts as I don't want anyone other than a CFI or an examiner trying to pull that junk with me. Hell, I have more hours than the person in question.

I hear club members just "deal with this person" but I might have to lay out some rules or just walk away from the club. After all, it is my life/safety.

Another odd thing is this person wants to have re-checkouts every 6 months...

Overall getting bad vibes... Thoughts?
 
The club can set its own rules. And you should decide for yourself if those rules are tolerable or not. I personally wouldn’t want to spend money to be part of that club.
 
Sounds like a club worth skipping. I used to belong to a pretty large "club" where I learned to fly. Great instructors, nice aircraft, several types, great rates. After we moved back where I grew up (alongside a beautiful grass runway) I joined a club of two- my wife and I, and I'm the only pilot. She's never tried to pull the power on me while flying. God knows she's already got all the power when we're on the ground. (And I'm ok with that.) :)
 
I'd trust the voice in your head that says it sounds spooky, and pass. Because it sounds spooky to me.

I've met "wannabe" cops, and this guys sounds like a "wannabe" CFI. I'm curious he's profiting from giving those instructional checkrides.
 
I would not join this club due to the non-CFI check ride--it just doesn't feel right to me for multiple reasons.

First off: Does the club provide insurance to its members? If so, does the insurance company accept check ride evaluations that are performed by a non-CFI?

Secondly: Does the club charge a fee for the check ride? If so, I would think that having a non-commercial rated pilot do the check ride would be a problem.
 
Sounds like a Club with some old procedures. Club Bylaws with non-CFI check pilots were common 30-40 years ago. Most changed their bylaws to make CFIs the check pilots.

A non CFI check pilot was designated as a member / volunteer with a right seat check out who just observed, keep the plane flying undamaged, and told the Club Board you could takeoff and land.

Strangely under most club insurance policies a check pilot member would be treated better than a CFI member.
 
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Clip4 said:
Sounds like a Club with some old procedures. Club Bylaws with non-CFI check pilots were common 30-40 years ago. Most changed their bylaws to make CFIs the check pilots.

A non CFI check pilot was designated as a member / volunteer with a right seat check out who just observed, keep the plane frying damaged, and told the Club Board you could takeoff and land.

Strangely under most club insurance policies a check pilot member would be treated better than a CFI member.
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Good info @Clip4! Thanks!
 
No. Sounds like a good way to crash an airplane and be the liable person since you’re pic and chief captain dumbass does not have a CFI. He’s just a passenger.
 
Sounds like a prescription for something bad sooner or later. Walk away, but for the good of the others be very clear why you are walking away and that this could ultimately have bad consequences.
 
My concern isn't so much the actions of one person, but that from your description it sounds like this is an extremely informal, and unorganized club.

All clubs I'm familiar with, and any I would even thing about joining, have a set of bylaws and other documents that spell out how things are going to be done. Like election of officers, board of directors responsibilities, checkout requirements, etc.

Warfaire said:
The "Chief Pilot" of this club is not a CFI nor is even commercial rated.
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Ego trip or not, this may be perfectly fine by the bylaws.

I hear club members just "deal with this person"
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This I don't understand. If it's really a "club", there should be a dispute resolution method, or a way to vote this person out of the position, or a way to modify the existing procedures. If nobody in the club except the Chief Pilot likes it, it should be able to be changed.

Another odd thing is this person wants to have re-checkouts every 6 months...
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Clubs can have any currency requirements they want. This should be spelled out in the bylaws or other documents. It's not a matter of what the person "wants", it needs to be established by vote of the board members.

From what little you've told us, I'd be wary of this club too. Not because of the actions of one person, but because of the apparent lack of organization and structure that would lead to this situation. (Or, maybe all this IS codified in the club documents, in which case it wouldn't be for me either.)
 
My club has an annual check ride requirement (it alternates with the flight review, so only one or the other in any given year). I'm told we get a break on insurance for requiring this.

But, only a club CFI can give the check ride. We've got a handful of CFI members, so scheduling isn't much of a problem.

A non-CFI 'chief pilot' doing these sounds problematic on several levels, as others have already pointed out.
 
Might try sitting with the ''chief pilot'' and ask about his instructional training, as in where did he get his training to do flight instruction, how many hours of dual given and so on.

If for nothing else but out of curiosity.
 
agreed...talk to the guy, be straight about your concerns, and find out for yourself what the deal is....
 
What kind of flight club is this? Equity based? Is the chief instructor “more equal” than the others? I agree with all of Russ’s comments above, it sounds like the club rules seem to be a bit tight and loose. I’m curious if the club’s insurance policy is cool with this arrangement.
 
Zeldman said:
Might try sitting with the ''chief pilot'' and ask about his instructional training, as in where did he get his training to do flight instruction, how many hours of dual given and so on.
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If the "chief pilot" is not a CFI, how could he have any dual time given hours?
 
JimBirk said:
If the "chief pilot" is not a CFI, how could he have any dual time given hours?
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You are correct, there should be no hours logged, and it is the answer that we are looking for.

Also asking about instruction training, again the answer is what we are looking for. Was it done by other members of the club or self taught?

As others have stated, usually in flying clubs CFIs are the one to give checkout flights.
 
Zeldman said:
You are correct, there should be no hours logged, and it is the answer that we are looking for.

Also asking about instruction training, again the answer is what we are looking for. Was it done by other members of the club or self taught?

As others have stated, usually in flying clubs CFIs are the one to give checkout flights.
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And likely, an insurance company will require a checkout, or some minimum of dual, from a CFI.
 
I think I'd fly with the guy. However, we'd go over some ground rules first.

  1. You (the "chief pilot", whatever that means) will not touch the power quadrant at any time before, during, or after flight unless you perceive an unsafe condition.
  2. You (the "chief pilot", whatever that means) will not touch the yoke at any time before, during, or after flight unless you perceive an unsafe condition.
  3. You (the "chief pilot", whatever that means) will not touch or speak into the radios at any time before, during, or after flight unless you perceive an unsafe condition.
  4. If you (the "chief pilot", whatever that means) perceive an unsafe condition you will be prepared to elaborate on what that condition is and how your actions increased safety.
Basically, I'd tell the "chief pilot" that he was a passenger and would act like one. If he couldn't fly with me on that basis, fine.
 
JimBirk said:
If the "chief pilot" is not a CFI, how could he have any dual time given hours?
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He could have been a CFI in another life. But seriously, he could have had his CFI revoked, he could have been a flight instructor in the military and never done anything to transfer it to the civilian world, or he could have been a foreign CFI with a foreign certificate.
 
So, since my original post I dug into the bylaws of the club. There is a section that lays out the rules for the Chief Pilot. And this person is violating them as it states that it must be a CFI to perform the club checkout. When I brought it up, he was very adamant about doing things his way. So.. I left that club in my rear view.

Thank you all for all your replies. I am happy to see I am not the only person to throw a red flag on this...

Happy and Safe Flying Everyone!
 
Warfaire said:
So, since my original post I dug into the bylaws of the club. There is a section that lays out the rules for the Chief Pilot. And this person is violating them as it states that it must be a CFI to perform the club checkout. When I brought it up, he was very adamant about doing things his way. So.. I left that club in my rear view.

Thank you all for all your replies. I am happy to see I am not the only person to throw a red flag on this...

Happy and Safe Flying Everyone!
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That really does sound quite dysfunctional - a club officer who refuses to follow the established, and voted-on club bylaws. And presumably, club members who are okay with that. Yeah, no thanks!
 
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