Talk me out of a Nissan LEAF

[asicer]

Kent's adventures with the Fusion/i3/Bolt/Tesla got me thinking that maybe I should check this EV stuff out for myself. I figure a used Nissan Leaf is going for not much money (about the same as a NAV/COM). My mission would be rainy day commuting, short haul errands and leaving at the airport when I take a multi-day flight. I'd keep my ICE car for everything else.

I know that an early LEAF is a technological dead-end, has a slow charging system and a possibly unserviceable battery which is probably already degraded. But all of that would already be built in to the low price. I figure its value can't drop much lower after I buy it, and even if it did I wouldn't be losing much. And if turns out I hate the car, maybe I can let you EV naysayers use it for target practice.

The first downside that comes to mind is that I'd be using it as a toy and toys are meant to be fun. On the surface, tooling around in a LEAF doesn't exactly sound like fun. It's also not pretty. Actually, I might be talking myself out of a LEAF.

 

[TCABM]

Try one out from Turo?

 

[weilke]

Ok. Its a gutless soul-sucking contraption that leaves you guessing when the battery will run flat. They were intended for Nissan to say 'hey look at us, we have an electric car' and they succeeded at that. May have made sense as a tax-play and on a lease when they were new, but I wouldn't touch an out of warranty old one.

You wanted someone to talk you out of it. I hope this helps.

 

[Velocity173]

They’re ugly. Hope that helps.

 

[Velocity173]

Much better car for you for around the same price.

 

[Brad W]

Apparently they are pretty decent daily drivers. I have a friend/neighbor that has one and loves it. He actually had an older one he bought used and sold in when he thought he was moving overseas, then bought another used one, a newer model, to replace it when the move fell through.
Personally, I find them odd looking but I still would have considered one but I was looking for a BEV to seat 5 more comfortably and one that could tow a trailer. I never considered it seriously and therefore I really don't know much about them.

As far as checking out the EV stuff.....It is kinda interesting I think. My interest in EV has zero to do with going green, saving the world, reducing anything, or even saving energy...well cheaper commute is a nice perk, but in my case that's offset by the more expensive car, etc... For me the interest in EV is all about the gadget and the novelty. It's smooth, quiet, fun to drive, nice to be able to precool or heat the car without running the engine in the garage, etc... Nice to be able to refill at home at my convenience and never be bothered with gas stations, no regular oil changes. I find trip planning a bit fun, kinda being on the ground floor of a new thing in some ways....

 

[bflynn]

Talk you out of it? No, it's a good mission and a good car.

Be sure to consider the travel distance and that an older car had lower range to begin with and even lower now with battery degradation. For example, a 2014 Leaf only had a 75 mile range, so if you need to make a round trip to somewhere that is 35 miles away, you'll be pushing it. For me, it's 31 miles one way to the airport, so that would be challenging to do with an older car.

Original mileages
2014 and below - 75 miles
2015 - 84 miles
2016 - 84 or 107 miles
2017 - 107 miles
2018 - 150 miles (I get 165)
2019+ - 150 or 225 miles

You will need a charger at home, about $750 and a 220 outlet in the garage. It definitely pays to ask around about the price of installing the outlet.

 

[Timbeck2]

Don't get the Leaf.

 

[Daleandee]

What Timbeck2 said ... ^^^^

 

[Timbeck2]

Please oh please, for the love of all that is holy - don't get a Leaf.

 

[steingar]

For the same money you could probably get an old Miata. You'd burn gas, but not much and have way more fun.

 

[schmookeeg]

Our first EV was a Leaf. 2011? I think.

Pros:

Cheap as hell. Ours was $4900 with like 12000 miles on it. Sometimes you can get your state incentives to chip a few thousand more against the already-low price.

Normal tires. Feels normal-ish overall as a car.

If I had a teenage driver, I couldn't imagine a BETTER first car for them. Doesn't go far, doesn't go fast, interior makes any horizontal activities a trigonometric exercise.

Cons:

Only EV I know of that shows its battery condition on the dash. Learn to spot that "second fuel meter" -- anything less than 9 or 10 bars on the skinny meter is range trouble. You'll start seeing some amazing nonsense in the used car listings with 4-5 bars (like 33% of original battery life!) -- and the diamonds in the rough are the 11/12 bar cars.

Sucks battery hard in the cold. Try for a 2013+ with the hybrid heater setup. I forget the actual name of it, it was dramatically easier on battery.

Sucks battery hard in the wet.

Dat ass is terrible looking, but still not down to the Prius level of unfashionable.


We sold our 80-mile-range Leaf after I drove 22mi in hard rain and cold and the battery was 80% cashed. Thanks to a recently-passed EV credit for used cars, I was able to pocket $2500 more than we bought it for, but we moved into the 120-mi range class after that. (i3 with Rex) and are on our second one.

New Leaf + models still have the air-cooled battery, and will suck over time, but they have a ton of range and drive really nice. The Pro Pilot autopilot was a nifty feature. They were nearly giving them away last winter as leases.


If you just want a city-bug for running groceries and such, it's fantastic. For a few thou, think of it as a fancier golf cart rather than a cheap car and you won't be disappointed. If you're the type to remember at Trader Joe's that you need something from Home Depot across town, then you gotta get your Shake Shack on across the other corner of town -- you may sweat a little. Range Anxiety is a real thing.

Get Plugshare and learn where your charge points are. You may be surprised.

$0.02

 

[Zeldman]

Don't buy a Nissan LEAF. Everyone will point their fingers at you and laugh..

 

[RyanB]

If I had a teenage driver, I couldn't imagine a BETTER first car for them. Doesn't go far, doesn't go fast, interior makes any horizontal activities a trigonometric exercise.

Ha!

 

[bflynn]

interior makes any horizontal activities a trigonometric exercise.

Not true of the newer body style. The passenger seat goes nearly flat.

 

[schmookeeg]

Not true of the newer body style. The passenger seat goes nearly flat.

The salesman failed to point that out on our two test drives. He might have secured a sale with that knowledge.

 

[Bob Noel]

Kent's adventures with the Fusion/i3/Bolt/Tesla got me thinking that maybe I should check this EV stuff out for myself. I figure a used Nissan Leaf is going for not much money (about the same as a NAV/COM). My mission would be rainy day commuting, short haul errands and leaving at the airport when I take a multi-day flight. I'd keep my ICE car for everything else.

I know that an early LEAF is a technological dead-end, has a slow charging system and a possibly unserviceable battery which is probably already degraded. But all of that would already be built in to the low price. I figure its value can't drop much lower after I buy it, and even if it did I wouldn't be losing much. And if turns out I hate the car, maybe I can let you EV naysayers use it for target practice.

The first downside that comes to mind is that I'd be using it as a toy and toys are meant to be fun. On the surface, tooling around in a LEAF doesn't exactly sound like fun. It's also not pretty. Actually, I might be talking myself out of a LEAF.

Do you want the car for fun or for the so-so practicality of having an old Old OLD EV?

How much would your auto insurance cost for a car that you only use occasionally?

wrt fun - a motorcycle can be fun, but a little scooter or (shudder) moped might be more economical. Which would you want?

 

[schmookeeg]

How much would your auto insurance cost for a car that you only use occasionally?

We went in with this mindset, especially me, since I have a strong capricious streak and will end up diddy-bopping anywhere for no reason at all. In the end, it was our gas-powered car that sat and collected cobwebs for weeks and months at a time after we got the Leaf.

We're urbanites, though, so we have things "to hand" and quite close by. Additionally, I think EVs fare better in the slow city environs, and stop-start type of driving favor them. If we had to drive 20 miles to the only market near us, the EV would have never crossed our mind, it just wouldn't be that workable. For us, the EV took over 80-90% of our trips, instantly.

It's nice having a car sitting there, filled up to max range nightly and ready to just grab and go. If you live in a cheap-kWh area, it's a no-brainer to grab the EV for darn near everything as it costs pennies to operate.

 

[MIFlyer]

Your points about range are fine, but he doesn't need to buy a charger or have a new outlet run. His existing 15A outlet should work with the free charger it came with and be able to easily refill each night in his garage for pennies.

Talk you out of it? No, it's a good mission and a good car.

Be sure to consider the travel distance and that an older car had lower range to begin with and even lower now with battery degradation. For example, a 2014 Leaf only had a 75 mile range, so if you need to make a round trip to somewhere that is 35 miles away, you'll be pushing it. For me, it's 31 miles one way to the airport, so that would be challenging to do with an older car.

Original mileages
2014 and below - 75 miles
2015 - 84 miles
2016 - 84 or 107 miles
2017 - 107 miles
2018 - 150 miles (I get 165)
2019+ - 150 or 225 miles

You will need a charger at home, about $750 and a 220 outlet in the garage. It definitely pays to ask around about the price of installing the outlet.

 

[asicer]

You will need a charger at home, about $750 and a 220 outlet in the garage. It definitely pays to ask around about the price of installing the outlet.

I thought it can also charge off of 110?

If you live in a cheap-kWh area, it's a no-brainer to grab the EV for darn near everything as it costs pennies to operate.

Time-of-Use metering, so I'd have to figure out a way to get it to only charge after midnight.

 

[asicer]

New Leaf + models still have the air-cooled battery, and will suck over time

Are there many complaints about the air-cooled battery in the e-Golf? I seem to recall VW claiming to have solved the air-cooling problem (before going liquid-cooled in the ID.4, notably)

 

[schmookeeg]

I thought it can also charge off of 110?


Time-of-Use metering, so I'd have to figure out a way to get it to only charge after midnight.

We only charged ours off of 110V. Expect to add about 4 miles per hour of range while on 110.

I don't know any EVs which are not programmable to only charge off-peak. The leaf certainly is. Set it once and forget it.

 

[David Megginson]

"Talk me out of a Nissan LEAF"

OK, sure. First make sure the car is in park and the parking brake is on. If there's a curb, turn the wheels so that they'll hit it and stop if the car rolls downhill. Shut down the car. Undo your seatbelt, open the door, and climb out.

That wasn't so hard, was it? I can talk you into it next time.

 

[asicer]

Only EV I know of that shows its battery condition on the dash. Learn to spot that "second fuel meter" -- anything less than 9 or 10 bars on the skinny meter is range trouble. You'll start seeing some amazing nonsense in the used car listings with 4-5 bars (like 33% of original battery life!) -- and the diamonds in the rough are the 11/12 bar cars.

I see what you mean now. Seems some sellers have gotten creative with the angles and cropping :

So you'd consider this one a diamond?

 

[schmookeeg]

I see what you mean now. Seems some sellers have gotten creative with the angles and cropping :

So you'd consider this one a diamond?

lol about cropping -- clever, shady bastards everywhere. Betting there's 5 or less health bars behind that wheel shot.

I would pay "full market value" and maybe a hair over for that 12-bar one if it was legit -- IIRC there was an OBD2 way to verify that battery condition, as I thought someone figured out a way to cheat the 12-bar display temporarily, although with 9K on the odo it's probably legit -- I'm out of the loop on the current state of shadiness with Leaf sellers, so it merits some research. I think the main forum for these is "mynissanleaf" (.com? .org? .whoknows) and you can harvest some better wisdom from the type club than I have to offer anymore.

 

[PaulS]

Do it, my buddy bought one, a 19 or 2020, I drove it, it was great. Zippy, 160 miles range, and cheap. As long as it fits your needs, why not?

 

[Albany Tom]

I can help. Friend of mine's wife has a smart car. He borrowed it one day, and I asked how he liked it. He said "I prefer a car with more..." but he was at a loss for words. So I finished his sentence. "...dignity". He just nodded in the affirmative.

 

[luvflyin]

Kent's adventures with the Fusion/i3/Bolt/Tesla got me thinking that maybe I should check this EV stuff out for myself. I figure a used Nissan Leaf is going for not much money (about the same as a NAV/COM). My mission would be rainy day commuting, short haul errands and leaving at the airport when I take a multi-day flight. I'd keep my ICE car for everything else.

I know that an early LEAF is a technological dead-end, has a slow charging system and a possibly unserviceable battery which is probably already degraded. But all of that would already be built in to the low price. I figure its value can't drop much lower after I buy it, and even if it did I wouldn't be losing much. And if turns out I hate the car, maybe I can let you EV naysayers use it for target practice.

The first downside that comes to mind is that I'd be using it as a toy and toys are meant to be fun. On the surface, tooling around in a LEAF doesn't exactly sound like fun. It's also not pretty. Actually, I might be talking myself out of a LEAF.

Tell me more about this target practice thing