Tesla Model 3 - Finally.

danhagan said:
Unless you're in California or central Texas (ERCOT) for the rolling brown outs ... next year when Texas freezes again, they'll have PSAs asking everyone to not charge their cars ...
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At least the cars are mostly going to be at or near full at the start of the crisis. When the power goes out and the gas station pumps aren't running, the EV drivers likely have more range in their "tanks" than the ICE drivers.
 
PaulS said:
Wow, is that the generation cost or the fully distributed cost? That's cheap. I'm on a municipal electric system, I can get 9 cents off peak and about 13 cents the rest of the time, with all charges in there for EV. The generated cost for the off peak is 4.1 cents.

That's in Massachusetts, our little electric company is well run. Mass has gone green, our company put in solar power, not because it is cheaper, but to be able to sell the Green credits to the large utilities who have to buy it. Neighboring towns are paying close to 20 cents a kwh.

I know why the call them green programs, it reflects the green extracted from your wallet.
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I’ll dig up a utility bill and provide details
 
AggieMike88 said:
I’ll dig up a utility bill and provide details
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Thanks, I checked out the website for your electric company, it's a little unclear, but you are lucky with those rates. Up here you are taught to hate energy.
 
danhagan said:
next year when Texas freezes again, they'll have PSAs asking everyone to not charge their cars ...
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More likely is they want the Tesla’s to collectively act like a big battery.

On a Tesla fan’s Podcast there was a good discussion about converting school busses into EV’s with massive battery packs. When not taking the kids back and forth, they could be stand by power supplies for disaster response agencies.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
....All that said, I don't like the regen being on the brake pedal either, because I like to go for maximum efficiency and I don't want the pads to touch the rotors, even inadvertently, unless I need them to. "L" (or D in the Tesla) is good for when you want max regen with no friction braking.

I do miss the little regen paddle in the Bolt. I usually would start coasting in N, then D, then L, then L plus the paddle to get maximum effort. You could also use the paddle in D. The Bolt in L with the paddle felt like stronger regen than the Tesla has.
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The way Audi does it, my pads don't touch...except on some schedule it does touch the pads instead of regen to keep the rotors clean/test them...or some such thing. I usually only notice it happening when I start out in the morning a few miles down the road at the first stop light after some speed.... and it only does it briefly, like for part of a stop or maybe a single stop. There's an indicator on the dash that lets you know what the brake pedal is doing (although you can feel a slight difference too). The only other times the pads touch is if you get into the deceleration harder than regen will handle (really floor the pedal...like almost never happens)...OR if the battery is full and there's no place for the energy to go. It really is seamless and nicely done I think. The regen gage just fluctuates based on how hard I'm pressing down the pedal. My car also has some +/- paddles on the wheel for regen, that some people apparently love but I find them to be pointless
 
Excuse my ignorance...

I think I understand super charging is no longer free? What does it cost?

Do the older model S's still have free super charging? Is it transferable or only for the original owner?

Is the super charging rate the same everywhere or vary by local power costs?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
At least the cars are mostly going to be at or near full at the start of the crisis. When the power goes out and the gas station pumps aren't running, the EV drivers likely have more range in their "tanks" than the ICE drivers.
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I hope to get an EV car in the next couple of years. Until then, the F-150 King Ranch with extended tanks that I got CHEAP at the start of the pandemic with 800 mile distance to empty when full will just have to do;):D

I should start a gofundme for all of you folks to start contributing so I can get a Lucid when they release with 500 mile EV capability:cool:
 
Jim K said:
Excuse my ignorance...

I think I understand super charging is no longer free? What does it cost?

Do the older model S's still have free super charging? Is it transferable or only for the original owner?

Is the super charging rate the same everywhere or vary by local power costs?
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Good question .... all those charging centers and never any mention of how much it cost to use one ... has it been free thus far .... ???
 
PaulS said:
Thanks, I checked out the website for your electric company, it's a little unclear, but you are lucky with those rates. Up here you are taught to hate energy.
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We have rates that go up with usage during the summer; trying to get people to limit their air conditioning.

There is a special rate structure for people with EVs that has a really low rate late at night, but then the rate during the day is really high, you know when we want AC. And now that I'm working from home, lights and running computers. Grrr.

Why can't they just give me the regular rate and then a discount at night. The power demand at night is low, and it's cheaper and better for them to run power generation more evenly. *sigh*



Wayne
 
flyingcheesehead said:
And there, people are used to needing to stand next to their car when they're fueling it. With an EV, you plug it in and walk away, and go do all those things you were going to do at the stop anyway. But because people are used to standing next to their cars when they refuel, the length of time it takes is of primary concern to them.
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It's because it's so fast you don't have time to do anything else. I often just check weather or update the price at that station on GasBuddy, because there's not even enough time to read emails.

Juicing up after 250-300 miles and you could watch a movie, then get a meal at a restaurant with table service, then check on the recharge progress before going to get a dessert. ;)



Wayne
 
There is a fee to use the supercharger.

this past April, I used the Downtown Fort Worth super charger. Pulled in with 3% state of charge and was there for about an hour to get back to 85% SoC. Cost was $12.12.

For rate of charge comparison, that would have taken nearly 4 hours on my home wall charger.

Tesla is deploying more Level 3 chargers across the country. That would have cut my charge time in nearly in half.

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I cant **** around and wait for a car to charge while I have to see 400+ miles worth of customers in a day and still have to get home for evening commitments. Or this Atlanta trip I had to scrub a flight for but HAD to make and had 2 others relying on me to get here. Rolled out at 3am and only stopped once to fill up, and that took only 5 mins to get me another 500 miles down the road. The only other stops were to **** and that was into a rest area and out. And we're going to do it again early Monday morning and stoppinh 3 or 4 times and waiting 30 mins or whatever it is each time is not going to work for multiple reasons.

So just shut the **** up about this ******** of "no one needs to go more than 6 miles in a vechicle at a time and its so horrible I cant believe you dont have a EV yet"

God you make me sick with that tripe.
 
AggieMike88 said:
There is a fee to use the supercharger.

this past April, I used the Downtown Fort Worth super charger. Pulled in with 3% state of charge and was there for about an hour to get back to 85% SoC. Cost was $12.12.

For rate of charge comparison, that would have taken nearly 4 hours on my home wall charger.

Tesla is deploying more Level 3 chargers across the country. That would have cut my charge time in nearly in half.

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.

Thank you .... how do you pay ... can you use a credit or debit card like a self serve gas station ?

.
 
EdFred said:
I cant **** around and wait for a car to charge while I have to see 400+ miles worth of customers in a day and still have to get home for evening commitments. Or this Atlanta trip I had to scrub a flight for but HAD to make and had 2 others relying on me to get here. Rolled out at 3am and only stopped once to fill up, and that took only 5 mins to get me another 500 miles down the road. The only other stops were to **** and that was into a rest area and out. And we're going to do it again early Monday morning and stoppinh 3 or 4 times and waiting 30 mins or whatever it is each time is not going to work for multiple reasons.

So just shut the **** up about this ******** of "no one needs to go more than 6 miles in a vechicle at a time and its so horrible I cant believe you dont have a EV yet"

God you make me sick with that tripe.
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You are a fricken animal EdFred.
 
A Martin said:
.

Thank you .... how do you pay ... can you use a credit or debit card like a self serve gas station ?

.
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I have a credit card on file.

Same card is used to pay my annual renewal for LTE data connectivity. (at home, it switches to the house WiFi)
 
A Martin said:
Good question .... all those charging centers and never any mention of how much it cost to use one ... has it been free thus far .... ???
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Tesla has a big advantage with charging infrastructure. That will narrow over time. Early Model S and X Teslas came with free Supercharging and they still have it. That hasn't been the case for new deliveries for the past several years.

Tesla Supercharging rates vary by location but, at worst, it's still a good bit less expensive than what gasoline would cost for a similarly sized car.

Tesla Superchargers identify the car automatically and start charging within a couple of seconds of plugging in. The cost of the Supercharging is applied through your Tesla account. No credit card readers.

Non-Tesla DC fast charging networks are separate systems. For some you'll have an account with a method of payment on file, with others you'll use an app, and some you'll swipe a credit card or possible a combination. The process is often far less seamless than with Tesla's network. Many have had issues getting a charge session started, sessions starting then stopping due to a fault, or chargers simply being out of service. The Tesla Supercharger stations typically average more chargers per station so that's less of a problem. Those are the issues that will work themselves out over time but they're still playing catch up.
 
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Your "brilliant" plan is to fly into Flint Bishop airport, rent a car, or try and get a courtesy car then drive 30 miles round trip to see customer number 1? Then fly from Flint to Pontiac and repeat. Not 30 miles this time, but still arranging a rental or courtesy car. Now do it again at Troy. Then do the same thing at either Mettetal, Willow Run or Ann Arbor. I suppose I get to land at Selfridge and get ground transportation there with with no issues as well on the days I have to that area as well. Now let's talk about the days I'm doing this in thunderstorms or what would be icing conditions.

Not only that, which airplane or EV would you use to load in a 55 gallon drum, another 500 or so lbs of materials that require refrigeration during transport and other assorted parts and equipment? Which airports are you going to use to that have courtesy cars or rental cars to put this stuff in? Or even allow you to.

Is this your reality that is the same as mine?

It helps to know what you are talking about before commenting. But I'm probably lying again because you don't like what actually goes on in my life. Easier for your narrative I suppose.
 
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So what’s the conclusion? EV or no EV?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
A Camry? No. If I was going to go that route, I'd have probably gotten an Accord instead.

But, someone did do it for me. The 5-year TCO* of the Model 3 came in about $800 cheaper than the lowest trim of the Camry.

Two big caveats, though: They completely skipped maintenance, which favors the Tesla big time. No oil changes, no brake jobs, no all kinds of things required on a gas car. We spend about 8 cents a mile on regular maintenance on my wife's gasser.
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Oh look, Tesla shill finds that Tesla is cheaper. I am shocked !

It remains to be seen whether the depreciation cost assumed for that analysis holds up considering that the model hasn't been out for 5 years yet. What is going to be the market for 5 year old Model 3s with 100,001 miles on the odometer ?

As for the Accord vs. Camry, I actually have both. Used to be that the Camrys just looked atrocious and drove like a couch. With the current model, they come out ahead over the Honda product. The current Accord is 3 years old and has been trouble free. 'Maintenance' is going through the Valvoline place every 8000 miles and getting $85 worth of synthetic oil changed.

I dont expect that maintenance cost on the Teslas will be dominated by drivetrain issues. It's the electronic knick-knack and body parts wearing out that will eventually nickle and dime people to death. At this point, Tesla is subsidizing the on-site repairs to shield the owners from that cost, but once swapping out some board on a 5 year old car starts to ring up 1k per visit, that may change. Long term, the cost is going to be more 'out of warranty BMW' than 'out of warranty Toyota'.
 
weilke said:
I dont expect that maintenance cost on the Teslas will be dominated by drivetrain issues. It's the electronic knick-knack and body parts wearing out that will eventually nickle and dime people to death. At this point, Tesla is subsidizing the on-site repairs to shield the owners from that cost, but once swapping out some board on a 5 year old car starts to ring up 1k per visit, that may change. Long term, the cost is going to be more 'out of warranty BMW' than 'out of warranty Toyota'.
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I agree with this -- as one on my third EV who has so far missed the electrical gremlins -- there's no doubt they lurk. If there was an EV that had a good range, but traditional controls and no ipad in the center, I'd be all over it.
 
EdFred said:
I cant **** around and wait for a car to charge while I have to see 400+ miles worth of customers in a day and still have to get home for evening commitments. Or this Atlanta trip I had to scrub a flight for but HAD to make and had 2 others relying on me to get here. Rolled out at 3am and only stopped once to fill up, and that took only 5 mins to get me another 500 miles down the road. The only other stops were to **** and that was into a rest area and out. And we're going to do it again early Monday morning and stoppinh 3 or 4 times and waiting 30 mins or whatever it is each time is not going to work for multiple reasons.

So just shut the **** up about this ******** of "no one needs to go more than 6 miles in a vechicle at a time and its so horrible I cant believe you dont have a EV yet"

God you make me sick with that tripe.
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You get sick easily, don't you?
Obviously, an EV is not right for you.
Lot's of people love their Harley Davidsons or their Lamborghinis, or any other car. But I say they all suck because I can't haul a half ton of landscape mulch in them.
Well, maybe they don't really suck, they just don't fit my mission. So I won't buy one.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's not at all unlike our artificially low corporate taxes.
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Ummm…. What?

We absolutely need to ensure that roads are equitably funded, but corporate taxes in the USA are most decidedly not “low.” They are high, often foolishly high.
 
wayne said:
Why can't they just give me the regular rate and then a discount at night. The power demand at night is low, and it's cheaper and better for them to run power generation more evenly. *sigh*
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That used to be the case with coal and nuclear. With gas turbine plants, there is much less of a 'baseload' that can't be switched off. Much less of a reason for the utility to give away cheap power at night.
 
weilke said:
That used to be the case with coal and nuclear. With gas turbine plants, there is much less of a 'baseload' that can't be switched off. Much less of a reason for the utility to give away cheap power at night.
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On the other hand, there is no power generation at night with solar, so the period of low demand coincides with the period of no/lo supply.
 
WannFly said:
So what’s the conclusion? EV or no EV?
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I am a die hard big cubic inch guy from long ways back. I still prefer carburetors and distributors over computer controlled engines. Yet I am watching and trying to learn about electric cars. For me, while on a road trip pulling into a charging station for 30 or so minutes would be a waste of time because I bring my own meals and pee on the side of the road. Yes, so will my wife.

When on long road trips I will drive 600+ miles a day and right now that means one gas stop. 5 minutes and back on the road. While more and more charging stations are opening here in the southwest, finding one that is operating can still be a problem. I am moving to Montana and looks like there are not many charging stations close to where I want to live right now.

After a exhaustive and lengthy 5 second search on Google, I find only 2 charging stations here in Gallup. I know there are more in the area and at Walmart and because my friend the car dealership owner was forced to put one in his dealership at his cost. I can't print what he says about it... :lol: But those 2 did not show up on my search. Hopefully the intelligent EVs will know where a charging station is.

One question I have, I read about some folks don't like the one pedal for going and stopping. How does that one pedal thing work.??

I am confidant all this will change for the better, and more so that someday an electric vehicle will meet my mission. When all that comes together I will get more interested in owning one. But my wife will have to like it because she will probably be the one to be driving it.
 
weilke said:
That used to be the case with coal and nuclear. With gas turbine plants, there is much less of a 'baseload' that can't be switched off. Much less of a reason for the utility to give away cheap power at night.
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Except they are giving a huge discount at night if one pays a premium during the day. o_O

In Georgia, 45.6% of our electricity is produced by coal or nuclear. So yeah, there has been a big shift to natural gas.
 
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Zeldman said:
After a exhaustive and lengthy 5 second search on Google, I find only 2 charging stations here in Gallup.
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Searching the Gallup area on the PlugShare app shows six. Not all are compatible with Teslas.

Hampton Inn - Destination charger
Gallup Supercharger - Tesla DC Fast Charger
USA RV Park - NEMA 14-50 outlet (Level 2 charging)
Walmart Supercenter - CCS/CHAdeMO. CSS is what almost all non-Teslas use in the US for DC Fast Charging. CHAdeMo support is fading, you can get a CHAdeMO adapter for Tesla but they are expensive and very few Tesla owners have them.
Hilton Garden Inn - 20A outlet (Level 1 charging)
Days Inn - 20A outlet (Level 1 charging)

If you're on a road trip you're only going to use DC Fast Charging. The Supercharger in a Tesla or the Walmart CCS chargers in non-Teslas. All of the others would be used for those staying overnight, or longer, in the area.

The Tesla navigation is very good about locating charging and planning your trip and charging spots. Other manufacturers range for really good to adequate. That will improve. In any case, their party apps can fill in the gaps. www.ABetterRoutePlanner.com is a very good site for planning charging stops. You can use it to investigate trips that you might take to see how charging would affect your trip. It's like a flight planning tool for an EV.

One question I have, I read about some folks don't like the one pedal for going and stopping. How does that one pedal thing work.??
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If you don't like it, turn it off. At least on the Tesla, you'll still get regen braking first when you press on the brake pedal.

Once you learn how, it's a better way to drive. You don't "coast" like you would in a car when you take your foot off the pedal; you regen. With a little practice, you rarely have to touch the brake pedal. To slow, just reduce the pressure on the accelerator and the car will slow. Come off all the way and the car will stop and hold its position, even on a hill.
 
Larry in TN said:
Searching the Gallup area on the PlugShare app shows six. Not all are compatible with Teslas.

Hampton Inn - Destination charger
Gallup Supercharger - Tesla DC Fast Charger
USA RV Park - NEMA 14-50 outlet (Level 2 charging)
Walmart Supercenter - CCS/CHAdeMO. CSS is what almost all non-Teslas use in the US for DC Fast Charging. CHAdeMo support is fading, you can get a CHAdeMO adapter for Tesla but they are expensive and very few Tesla owners have them.
Hilton Garden Inn - 20A outlet (Level 1 charging)
Days Inn - 20A outlet (Level 1 charging)

If you're on a road trip you're only going to use DC Fast Charging. The Supercharger in a Tesla or the Walmart CCS chargers in non-Teslas. All of the others would be used for those staying overnight, or longer, in the area.

The Tesla navigation is very good about locating charging and planning your trip and charging spots. Other manufacturers range for really good to adequate. That will improve. In any case, their party apps can fill in the gaps. www.ABetterRoutePlanner.com is a very good site for planning charging stops. You can use it to investigate trips that you might take to see how charging would affect your trip. It's like a flight planning tool for an EV.


If you don't like it, turn it off. At least on the Tesla, you'll still get regen braking first when you press on the brake pedal.

Once you learn how, it's a better way to drive. You don't "coast" like you would in a car when you take your foot off the pedal; you regen. With a little practice, you rarely have to touch the brake pedal. To slow, just reduce the pressure on the accelerator and the car will slow. Come off all the way and the car will stop and hold its position, even on a hill.
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Thanks for the information, I learn more about EVs everyday.

I forgot the Hampton Inn had chargers, I pass by there everyday. The Days Inn.... here that is not even a good truck stop hotel. I would rather spend the night on the seat of my truck.

Just general information for anyone RVing on I-40, the USA RV park is a really decent place to stay in Gallup. Quiet, (except for the airplanes taking off and landing) paved, easy to get in and out of and in summer time cowboy cook out grill. I stayed there the first 2 years I was in Gallup.
 
As an Ecoboost F150 owner I must say I'm impressed with the "Lightning". That being said, I believe that an owner should go ahead and anticipate that the states and feds will collect a road tax on EV's that will be equal or greater than the current rate. My calculation is that state and federal tax in South Carolina is about .44 cents per gallon. So a vehicle that gets 20 miles per gallon pays about 2.2 cents per mile in taxes. Eventually EV owners will have to pay up.

 
Zeldman said:
I am confidant all this will change for the better, and more so that someday an electric vehicle will meet my mission. When all that comes together I will get more interested in owning one. But my wife will have to like it because she will probably be the one to be driving it.
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I wish more people had that attitude. If it doesn't fit your mission, don't buy one. EVs fit 99% of my mission and a large part of most people's missions, so let them buy them. The more people that buy them the more R&D will improve the technology and more charging stations will be built and the grid will eventually catch up. THEN you can buy one if you wish.
 
Possum said:
As an Ecoboost F150 owner I must say I'm impressed with the "Lightning". That being said, I believe that an owner should go ahead and anticipate that the states and feds will collect a road tax on EV's that will be equal or greater than the current rate. My calculation is that state and federal tax in South Carolina is about .44 cents per gallon. So a vehicle that gets 20 miles per gallon pays about 2.2 cents per mile in taxes. Eventually EV owners will have to pay up.
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Oregon and Utah have already gone to staggered registration fees (or a per-mile tax) for EVs to tamp down on the freeloading.
 
Jim K said:
Excuse my ignorance...

I think I understand super charging is no longer free? What does it cost?

Do the older model S's still have free super charging? Is it transferable or only for the original owner?

Is the super charging rate the same everywhere or vary by local power costs?
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It depends. There are some free chargers out there, but you have to work to find them. I have a Nissan and they still offer free super charging at their dealers for Nissan cars. There are lots of free Level 2 chargers if you don't mind waiting for a while.

Commercially, the rates seem to depend more on the company and state. There's a station in Lexington, NC off I-85 which is about $2 per kw...the rate is set by the city. On the EVGO network, the rates for most states is around $0.25/kw, which is still twice what I pay at home. Chargepoint is higher and Electrify American can be pretty hefty. I'm not that worried because I don't need to charge away from home that often.

My bigger gripe is broken chargers. It's not exactly common, but I have found chargers that were not working, reported them, and then found them not working months later. If there was a gas pump broken for a week, someone would be getting fired. If this happens in a smaller town, you might not have other options that you can reach because the network of chargers is still under developed.
 
SCCutler said:
Ummm…. What?

We absolutely need to ensure that roads are equitably funded, but corporate taxes in the USA are most decidedly not “low.” They are high, often foolishly high.
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And the fact that corporate taxes are passthru taxes.

I just love people who ask politicians to tax "rich corporations", they're asking to be taxed themselves.
 
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