Protocol for relaying on Center frequency

iamtheari

iamtheari

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Ari
On my way home yesterday, a plane that was on flight following did not respond to Center's frequency change calls. When I got to the next sector, they were still trying to reach him on every frequency they could think of, including Guard of course. I offered to relay since ADS-B put him closer to me than to anyone else. They gave me 3 frequencies to try, all of them on Center with the previous sector controller.

But I realized that I've only really had experience relaying on Guard. That's a little different because Guard is more of a many-to-many frequency, while Center is one-to-many where there is a definite person who owns the frequency.

Does anyone have suggested phrasing for relaying to an aircraft on Center's frequency?
 
Suggestion - “N12345, Center is looking for you on this frequency, can you advise if you copy me? This is N123AB trying to relay their message.”

That’s without looking at AIM and what I would do off the cuff (as if you were Center and just asked me to help), no prep or research.
 
I was asked to do this a couple times on our MN trip. Apparently radio coverage gets pretty sparse over the North Woods. I just said, "N123 from N8735E on 1xx.xx". Both times they responded right away, and I relayed center's message to contact them on a different frequency in 10-15 miles. I then called center back and they thanked me. I also had a UPS 747 relay basically the same message to me, and that's how they did it as well.
 
Last year over Wyoming, Center was trying to get a Cirrus north of me. I could hear the Cirrus getting concerned about an approach clearance but Center couldn't hear him. I offered to relay for Center. He told me what to convey. I said: Cirrus 123, this is Lance 456, Center says do this....

Center thanked me for piping up and helping before he had to start asking aircraft to try the Cirrus. He didn't care what words I used.
 
N123ab, relaying for center. ATC clears 123AB ## approach maintain #### until established
 
I also don't think it really matters exactly what words you use for most of it. You haven't read and memorized 7110.65.

The one time that wording matters is when I have relayed an actual IFR clearance they made it very clear that I was supposed to say "ATC clears N12345 to XYZ via route" rather than just saying "N12345 is cleared to XYZ via route" as you'd normally hear. But they didn't care about how I identified myself to the other airplane, etc. Just the content of the clearance.
 
pdonahue said:
I also don't think it really matters exactly what words you use for most of it. You haven't read and memorized 7110.65.

The one time that wording matters is when I have relayed an actual IFR clearance they made it very clear that I was supposed to say "ATC clears N12345 to XYZ via route" rather than just saying "N12345 is cleared to XYZ via route" as you'd normally hear. But they didn't care about how I identified myself to the other airplane, etc. Just the content of the clearance.
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"ATC clears N12345 ..." is what you get if you call Flight Service for a clearance, so that sounds fairly standard.

NealRomeoGolf said:
Last year over Wyoming, Center was trying to get a Cirrus north of me. I could hear the Cirrus getting concerned about an approach clearance but Center couldn't hear him. I offered to relay for Center. He told me what to convey. I said: Cirrus 123, this is Lance 456, Center says do this....

Center thanked me for piping up and helping before he had to start asking aircraft to try the Cirrus. He didn't care what words I used.
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I had an overflying airliner relay to me once when I sent my IFR cancellation and didn't hear ATC respond. I think he caught me on CTAF, though.

What made this one weird in my mind was that I switched to a different Center controller's frequency to make the relay, and I was afraid that I would confuse that controller when he hears a plane making weird calls he didn't ask for. I did my best with "N1234, this is N5678 on 124.5. How do you read me?" Monday morning quarterbacking would have added "relaying for Center on 124.5" to de-confuse the controller.

They did eventually get the guy on frequency, at any rate, so my uncertainty didn't crash any planes this time.
 
iamtheari said:
What made this one weird in my mind was that I switched to a different Center controller's frequency to make the relay, and I was afraid that I would confuse that controller when he hears a plane making weird calls he didn't ask for.
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If it were me having to switch I probably would have told that Center first that I was asked to relay and then go ahead and relay. But I tend to ask permission from people too much so take with a grain of salt. :)
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
If it were me having to switch I probably would have told that Center first that I was asked to relay and then go ahead and relay. But I tend to ask permission from people too much so take with a grain of salt. :)
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You probably even ask permission before meowing on Guard. :)

But yeah, I suppose I could have told the last Center guy why I was back with him before I started tying up his frequency. :)
 
To attempt contact would like any initial call, "[his callsign], [my callsign]"

I use "ATC Clears..." or "ATC Advises...", as applicable, when passing information from ATC to another aircraft. I don't think there's any standard phraseology in the AIM or P/CG for this.
 
I hear these every so often.. it's usually a variation of "N12345, uhh.. this is N23456... if you can hear me, contact Center on 123.45" followed by a "uhhh.. he heard me" or "uhhh... nothing"

The controllers are often grateful regardless of the word stew that results. No point putting on airs IMHO. They know you're not a controller. :)
 
schmookeeg said:
I hear these every so often.. it's usually a variation of "N12345, uhh.. this is N23456... if you can hear me, contact Center on 123.45" followed by a "uhhh.. he heard me" or "uhhh... nothing"

The controllers are often grateful regardless of the word stew that results. No point putting on airs IMHO. They know you're not a controller. :)
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Sounds like you heard me over Wyoming!
 
iamtheari said:
"ATC clears N12345 ..." is what you get if you call Flight Service for a clearance, so that sounds fairly standard.


I had an overflying airliner relay to me once when I sent my IFR cancellation and didn't hear ATC respond. I think he caught me on CTAF, though.

What made this one weird in my mind was that I switched to a different Center controller's frequency to make the relay, and I was afraid that I would confuse that controller when he hears a plane making weird calls he didn't ask for. I did my best with "N1234, this is N5678 on 124.5. How do you read me?" Monday morning quarterbacking would have added "relaying for Center on 124.5" to de-confuse the controller.

They did eventually get the guy on frequency, at any rate, so my uncertainty didn't crash any planes this time.
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Are you sure it was a different controllers frequency? Likely just another frequency that controller was using. If it was another controllers frequency, they would have almost certainly have already talked to each other about it. Like yo, Bert, I'm sending this Ari dude over to your freq to try and raise that cessna
 
luvflyin said:
Are you sure it was a different controllers frequency? Likely just another frequency that controller was using. If it was another controllers frequency, they would have almost certainly have already talked to each other about it. Like yo, Bert, I'm sending this Ari dude over to your freq to try and raise that cessna
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I'm 100% sure it was another controller because I had been talking to him and I have also never heard of a case of Center handing a pilot off to "Contact Center on ..." and then faking an opposite-gender voice on the new frequency rather than "change to my frequency ..." when it's the same person. :)

I'm sure they were talking to each other as you mentioned, though. The new controller gave me 3 different frequencies to try, all of which I had been on with the prior controller at various points since his first missed "change to my frequency" to the missing plane a good bit earlier on. The second controller wouldn't have known which one the missing plane was last heard talking on without having spoken to the first controller.

The reason I offered to relay was that I was trying to listen to an audiobook and I got sick of the interruptions, with Center trying to reach the missing plane on every frequency they put me on plus Guard. :)
 
When I was a new and inexperienced pilot, someone asked me to contact Center for him, but I had no idea how to handle it and didn't answer. (Dumb! :oops: )

If it ever happens again, I will tell Center that there's an aircraft asking for a relay and go from there.
 
I've had a few relay requests now.

My biggest regret was a time MPLS center was having trouble reaching a MN Guard helicopter down low in the Mississippi River Valley between Winona and Lacrosse. I had heard the Guard pilot earlier, talking in that real deep bad ass voice. I was thinking do I or don't i...hmm. I had my deep bad ass voice ready to go but then started chuckling to myself too much and aborted and just did the relay normal. Always regretted not going for it. It was the first time I had been asked to have someone switch to one of the higher 4xx frequencies.

The other thing weird about relays is that I am terrible about remembering the other planes N number. I always write it down. The Guard Helichopter number was the worst. I swear it was 61168873468943567 :)
 
On cross country flights I have recently started listening to guard mainly because I can only take so much ear piercing chatter and squeal on 122.8 and if i had an emergency I could quickly make a mayday call. I am shocked at the number of calls looking for planes (mostly air carrier) on guard around Atlanta. I am not IFR rated so I am guessing this is a normal protocol for lost comms or handoffs from controller to controller.

One cool thing though, I happen to be flying on 9/11 this year on a cross country and that morning and at about 8:45ish, someone came on guard and said something to the effect of "20 years ago today, 3,000 americans lost their lives to terrorism, never forget". I along with everyone else double keyed the mic. It was pretty amazing.
 
Sinistar said:
The other thing weird about relays is that I am terrible about remembering the other planes N number. I always write it down. The Guard Helichopter number was the worst. I swear it was 61168873468943567
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I think I saw the same chopper number on ADS-B when I was westbound out of Minneapolis this weekend, actually. I was curious so I looked hard to spot them in the air when they went past my wing in the opposite direction, a few miles off. It was a Chinook and a pretty cool sight.
 
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