Requesting Flight Following for Scenic Loop Around PHX

[azpilot]

Hi there everyone. It's been a while since I've been flying routinely. But I just got my flight review completed, and I'm going up on Friday in a 172 I'm renting for a scenic loop around the PHX area. It will look something like this.

-- edit --

To clarify, the direction is clockwise. I will not be stopping at any of the airports along the way. They are used for the sake of convenience as waypoints.

-- end edit --

https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.48287006788804,-111.73901447857925&chart=121&zoom=5&fpl= KCHD VPAWG KPHX VPPEK KSDL VPFTN GRINE VPREN KIWA KCHD

Here's my question. How do I succinctly ask for flight following for this flight?

I'm imagining it will go something like this:

Me: PHX Approach, Skyhawk AB123, VFR request

Appr: Skyhawk AB123, say request

Me: PHX Approach, Skyhawk AB123 5 miles east of Chandler, 3500 feet, Bravo transition, then VFR flight following for scenic loop around Superstitions (these are the mountains East of Phoenix), and back to Chandler.

Appr: Skyhawk AB123 - squawk 4321....

So here's my question, is that too wordy? Should I just ask for the Bravo transition, and then ask for the flight following later? Is it better to ask for everything up front? I just want to think through this as much ahead of time as I hate sounding like a doofus on the radio and taking up valuable time.

I'd feel real comfortable with this if I were just flying to a single destination as I've done that plenty of times before. But this a loop around the valley of the sun that ends where it starts.

 

[eman1200]

are you going to start at CHD and then basically do that entire counter clockwise loop? are you planning on landing at any of the airports you have listed or just fly over them?

 

[azpilot]

are you going to start at CHD and then basically do that entire counter clockwise loop? are you planning on landing at any of the airports you have listed or just fly over them?

Hey, good question. The plan is to go clockwise. Start at KCHD, and then fly the entire loop without stopping. I just put the airports in the path because they are convenient waypoints.

 

[PaulS]

PHX is a pain in the butt to get FF most of the time is what I've been told. I would make contact, tell them you are doing a scenic loop around their airspace with a pass through the corridor and would like FF. Hopefully they will accommodate you. If not, make a bigger loop to avoid the corridor and do it without them.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I don’t know if anything changed as a result of the Superstition Mtn crash, but yes, PHX TRACON has historically been anti-VFR and I can’t say I blame them. There is so bloody much student flight training traffic in the valley and half of them are proficient English speakers, so the typical TRACON response to VFR callous is ‘aircraft calling remain outside of the Class Bravo’ and they go back to the IFR traffic.

The other thing to consider in PHX is that even if they do accept your FF request, you are NOT a priority. So don’t expect TRACON to call out all of the traffic.

Personally, when I fly VFR in the Phoenix area, I don’t bother with TRACON. I keep my head on a swivel and monitor ADS-B.

 

[azpilot]

The Bravo transition is routinely granted. I've done that dozens of times and have never been denied. I'm not worried about that at all. I've had FF yanked on my once when flying from Tucson to the Phoenix area.

As far as things changing since the Superstition Mountain crash, the answer is yes. I've departed early in the AM for a North departure from KCHD. As soon as the standard VFR Bravo transition was done, I was cleared to climb unrestricted through the Bravo.

@Fearless Tower , you do make a good point about the traffic advisories when on FF. I can't rely on that.

I should have also mentioned that the plan is to depart at 6:00 AM. It's still SUPER HOT here. The forecast puts the temp at 80 F on Friday at 6:00 AM. The early departure should mean less traffic, and an easier time with TRACON.

 

[eman1200]

can u initiate FF from CHD? some bravos have a 'magic altitude' that they'll happily transition you over the field at. the trick is to find out that magic #. charlotte is 4500/5500, no issues ever getting that (4000/5000 IFR). I'd tell CHD u want FF with a NW departure and transition over PHX. after that one little section by VPPEK, looks like you can fly the VFR flyways until you're outside the bravo, circle south around the east side, then when you're coming back in it looks like u can be at 4500 and be below the bravo and above IWA's delta. I think the key here is to know exactly what you want and where u want it so you're never fumbling with ATC ("requesting 5500 from paradise valley heading east for 20 miles"...."4500 from VPREN heading back to CHD"). but then again, I don't know that airspace and it sounds like they just love VFR traffic just putzing around, flirting with the bravo traffic. I have seen people mention getting in touch with a facility a day or so before the trip and letting them know what you want to do and see what they say. I've never done that before but maybe that's an option. finally, don't listen to me, I have no idea what'll work.

 

[luvflyin]

Hi there everyone. It's been a while since I've been flying routinely. But I just got my flight review completed, and I'm going up on Friday in a 172 I'm renting for a scenic loop around the PHX area. It will look something like this.

-- edit --

To clarify, the direction is clockwise. I will not be stopping at any of the airports along the way. They are used for the sake of convenience as waypoints.

-- end edit --

https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.48287006788804,-111.73901447857925&chart=121&zoom=5&fpl= KCHD VPAWG KPHX VPPEK KSDL VPFTN GRINE VPREN KIWA KCHD

Here's my question. How do I succinctly ask for flight following for this flight?

I'm imagining it will go something like this:

Me: PHX Approach, Skyhawk AB123, VFR request

Appr: Skyhawk AB123, say request

Me: PHX Approach, Skyhawk AB123 5 miles east of Chandler, 3500 feet, Bravo transition, then VFR flight following for scenic loop around Superstitions (these are the mountains East of Phoenix), and back to Chandler.

Appr: Skyhawk AB123 - squawk 4321....

So here's my question, is that too wordy? Should I just ask for the Bravo transition, and then ask for the flight following later? Is it better to ask for everything up front? I just want to think through this as much ahead of time as I hate sounding like a doofus on the radio and taking up valuable time.

I'd feel real comfortable with this if I were just flying to a single destination as I've done that plenty of times before. But this a loop around the valley of the sun that ends where it starts.

Sounds pretty good to me. Paints the picture without getting overly verbose. I can’t speak for the Controllers there though. @Pilawt , whadda ya say, how are those guys to work with

 

[sarangan]

Hi there everyone. It's been a while since I've been flying routinely. But I just got my flight review completed, and I'm going up on Friday in a 172 I'm renting for a scenic loop around the PHX area. It will look something like this.

-- edit --

To clarify, the direction is clockwise. I will not be stopping at any of the airports along the way. They are used for the sake of convenience as waypoints.

-- end edit --

https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.48287006788804,-111.73901447857925&chart=121&zoom=5&fpl= KCHD VPAWG KPHX VPPEK KSDL VPFTN GRINE VPREN KIWA KCHD

Here's my question. How do I succinctly ask for flight following for this flight?

I'm imagining it will go something like this:

Me: PHX Approach, Skyhawk AB123, VFR request

Appr: Skyhawk AB123, say request

Me: PHX Approach, Skyhawk AB123 5 miles east of Chandler, 3500 feet, Bravo transition, then VFR flight following for scenic loop around Superstitions (these are the mountains East of Phoenix), and back to Chandler.

Appr: Skyhawk AB123 - squawk 4321....

So here's my question, is that too wordy? Should I just ask for the Bravo transition, and then ask for the flight following later? Is it better to ask for everything up front? I just want to think through this as much ahead of time as I hate sounding like a doofus on the radio and taking up valuable time.

I'd feel real comfortable with this if I were just flying to a single destination as I've done that plenty of times before. But this a loop around the valley of the sun that ends where it starts.

I don't know the local area, but it sounds like a sensible plan. Your route is clear of the approach paths into Skyharbor, so you shouldn't get vectored off course too much. Since you are inside Bravo, you should make sure the controller knows what heading changes you are about to make.

 

[Pilawt]

I think your plan is a good one, and your "script" sounds about right to me. Even better that you're doing it so early in the morning. There's less traffic, the air is calm, and the low sun angle will give you some spectacular views.

PHX used to have a reputation for being uncooperative with VFR, but my experience in recent years has been the polar opposite. Unless it's a peak time, they're great. I often get a convenient Bravo clearance without even asking for it, like just a couple of days ago when I departed to the southeast. I planned to stay under the Bravo shelves, but the controller gave me the Bravo clearance and a hard altitude.

Just north of the letter 'M' in "Superstition Mountains" on that chart you posted, is "Weaver's Needle", a distinctive peak and favorite hiking destination in the area.

 

[azpilot]

Just north of the letter 'M' in "Superstition Mountains" on that chart you posted, is "Weaver's Needle", a distinctive peak and favorite hiking destination in the area.

The Peralta Trail is a great hike. We went all the way to Weaver's Needle when I was in Boy Scouts. I'm planning on taking my cub scout Den to Freemont Saddle in a month or so when it cools down a bit.

I'm hoping to get a good view of Weaver's Needle from the air tomorrow AM.

 

[azpilot]

can u initiate FF from CHD? some bravos have a 'magic altitude' that they'll happily transition you over the field at. the trick is to find out that magic #. charlotte is 4500/5500, no issues ever getting that (4000/5000 IFR). I'd tell CHD u want FF with a NW departure and transition over PHX. after that one little section by VPPEK, looks like you can fly the VFR flyways until you're outside the bravo, circle south around the east side, then when you're coming back in it looks like u can be at 4500 and be below the bravo and above IWA's delta. I think the key here is to know exactly what you want and where u want it so you're never fumbling with ATC ("requesting 5500 from paradise valley heading east for 20 miles"...."4500 from VPREN heading back to CHD"). but then again, I don't know that airspace and it sounds like they just love VFR traffic just putzing around, flirting with the bravo traffic. I have seen people mention getting in touch with a facility a day or so before the trip and letting them know what you want to do and see what they say. I've never done that before but maybe that's an option. finally, don't listen to me, I have no idea what'll work.

Hey, great thoughts. I've actually done this flight before squawking 1200. It's a lot of fun.

Getting the Bravo transition over the top of PHX is SUPER easy. In my experience, you just let ground at KCHD know that you want the Bravo Transition. As soon as you're leaving the pattern, they'll usually give you an early frequency change. At this point, just pop over to PHX Approach, ask for the Bravo transition, then they'll give you a squawk and clear you through. If I recall correctly, transition altitudes are usually between 4,500' and 5,500'. Once you pass the bow tie portion and are clear of the Bravo, depending on the transition height, you may or may not already be outside the Bravo. Once you ARE clear of Bravo, they'll cut you loose, and you're back to squawking 1200.

It's pretty easy to fly between the KSDL Delta (4000') and the Bravo (6000'), as long as you stay North of Shea Blvd (which is pretty obvious if you are familiar with the area).

Once you're past KSDL, aim for Fountain Hills (VPFTN). If you time it right and hit this part of the flight in the top 15 minutes of the hour, you'll be treated to the Fountain going off. It shoots a jet stream of water 500+ feet in the air.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_Hills,_Arizona

Once past the Fountain, the Bravo shelves start to slowly rise, so you'll have plenty of room. Aim for making wide right turn around Canyon Lake keeping it off your right wing. From there, head South for the Renaissance Festival (VPREN). I know all of this area super well as I've hiked and ridden dirt bikes in this area my whole life.

Once you make the turn past VPREN grab the KIWA & KCHD ATIS, call KIWA tower and get a Delta transition. The Delta airspace of KIWA and KCHD merge together, so you got to be quick here. Usually KIWA tower will cut you loose as soon as you're clear of the pattern and give you an early frequency change. Call up KCHD and come in for landing.

 

[dans2992]

Bravo transition is no problem, but generally for a flight like this, as soon as you’re 1 foot outside the bravo it’s “radar services terminated sqwak VFR bye”