Wintergreen Chewing Tobacco - DUI

F

FlyFish

Guest
While boating, my wife dropped me off at a beach where I met an employee of mine who was camping nearby. She took the boat for a spin before picking me up.

At the time, consuming alcohol was rare.

The purpose of my visit to the beach was to recruit / hire a friend of my employee.
They were passing around whiskey shots. I drank 3.

My wife picked me up within 30 minutes.

She doesn't know how to back our boat trailer up. I put a fresh dip of chewing Tobacco in my lip and retrieved the boat with my wife's SUV. As we were wiping it down, officers approached me.

Within 5 minutes I was blowing. .197. I had chew in my mouth. I was intoxicated but I knew it was not possible I was that drunk. I was driven to a police station with chew in my mouth. I was forced to swallow my spit in the squad car. Immediately upon exiting the vehicle, I puked. Within moments, I was blowing into another testing device. Now it's .156.....less than one hour after initial test. How can bac drop so fast? Ethyl alcohol from chewing Tobacco. Raw alcohol in the mouth causes high readings.

I was drunk. Not more than .15. After the video proved I had chew in while blowing, the courts removed all breath test evidence. I plead guilty to DUI as long as it was treated as if it were a below .15 case. I received a deferred judgement. Staying out of trouble for probation period would erase the case from the courts.....just not DMV.

My AME doesn't want to hear about false readings related to mouth alcohol. He wants monitoring, HIMS, AA, counseling, etc.

For someone like me who chooses business activities over social, drinking was not something I enjoyed or found comforting when stressed. Actually the opposite. Stressful situations cause me to consciously be on my A game.

I vowed never to consume alcohol ever again and it was easy. Now I have a good reason to drink water in social settings.

It's messed up that I have to go through all of this due to chewing Tobacco.
 
So, how big were these three shots of whiskey? To get you past .15, they had to be rather generous, like 3 oz each? Either that, or you weigh 90lbs soaking wet, and they really were just 1.5oz each. Even then, seems suspicious.
 
If I did three shots within a 30 minute period I'd be drunk off my six. Chewing tobacco is really gross, it stains your teeth and ruins your breath. That, and it causes cancer of the head, neck, and throat.
 
Simply, your wife should have been driving. Bad judgement leaving the ramp. You make no explanation as to why the officer decided to stop you. My experience has been the alcohol stop has been due to noticeably substandard driving.

It is much easier to stay aware of your condition, and avoid violations in the first place, than to recover to normal after you are caught.

Before, you are the judge.

After you are caught, the government becomes the judge, and enforces its decisions to suit itself.

Best wishes on remaining dry, I have had several friends succeed in that plan.
 
I'm retired now, but for 28 years, I was a cop / detective in a bar town. Literally HUNDREDS of times, I've heard people say, "I can't be that drunk, I only had 3 drinks." When I was investigating the numerous alleged rapes that come with a bar town, I probably heard victims say that at least 50 times, while also saying that someone MUST have put something in their drink, because they have zero recollection of the evening, know they were drugged/raped, etc. And in EVER SINGLE SOLITARY CASE, I later obtained video of my "victims" downing waaaaay more than 3 drinks...usually something like a dozen or more drinks (never once did I see someone put something in their drinks, and having 100% coverage video surveillance was a requirement of a liquor license in my town).
Sooo, even though I guess you could be that ONE CASE that proves 100% of my past experience wrong, you can color me skeptical at best. And more likely? Suck it up buttercup, you were drunk, and dip ain't got nothin' to do wit it...
 
FlyFish said:
It's messed up that I have to go through all of this due to chewing Tobacco.
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You are going through this because you poured back 3 drinks over a short timespan and got caught immediately afterwards. Bad decision, own up to it.

As for the discrepancy between the field test and the station, that may just be the result of the brief interval between your last drink and the PBT. The second test is probably closer to your BAC at the time.
 
weilke said:
It's a boat ramp. A good percentage of boaters are pickled by the time they return.
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That’s a fair point. Just thinking of all the times I’ve been to boat slips and never recall seeing any cops just hanging around with a breathalyzer in hand ready to test people, unless they get a report or have reasonable suspicion (and maybe they did). :)

It’s also funny how descriptive the thread title is. Not just chewing tobacco, but the specific flavor and everything! :D
 
Three shots in 30 minutes?



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Welcome to the government. This is not a court, this is a safety program. If you show evidence of a problem, you're deemed to have it unless proven otherwise. The FAA assumes that if you got caught, it wasn't your first time.

Sorry to be negative about this, but that's the game. Play it or don't, they don't care. But you're not flying without abiding by their rules.

BTW, that's what you AME is doing. This isn't about what he wants, it's the rules set by the FAA. If he doesn't follow them, he's in trouble.
 
What’s the question? Or is it just a rant, looking for support/buy-in?

How should someone who only ever drank 1 time and got drunk and caught be “managed” by the system? How would you differentiate that vs someone with a more consistent alcohol issue? I’m not sure the system can accommodate those differences,
 
The only relevant phrase from your story is “I plead guilty to DUI”. Those words have consequences, and the FAA does not care about the mitigating circumstances. Follow the guidance from your AME if you want to move forward.
 
bflynn said:
Welcome to the government. This is not a court, this is a safety program.
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I beg to differ, it’s an ADMINISTRATIVE program. It’s right there in the name.
 
I was drunk. I own it.

The issue is .15 or higher. AME can issue if one time event under .15

4th of July sting caught me pulling boat from the lake.
 
FlyFish said:
While boating, my wife dropped me off at a beach where I met an employee of mine who was camping nearby. She took the boat for a spin before picking me up.

At the time, consuming alcohol was rare.

The purpose of my visit to the beach was to recruit / hire a friend of my employee.
They were passing around whiskey shots. I drank 3.

My wife picked me up within 30 minutes.

She doesn't know how to back our boat trailer up. I put a fresh dip of chewing Tobacco in my lip and retrieved the boat with my wife's SUV. As we were wiping it down, officers approached me.

Within 5 minutes I was blowing. .197. I had chew in my mouth. I was intoxicated but I knew it was not possible I was that drunk. I was driven to a police station with chew in my mouth. I was forced to swallow my spit in the squad car. Immediately upon exiting the vehicle, I puked. Within moments, I was blowing into another testing device. Now it's .156.....less than one hour after initial test. How can bac drop so fast? Ethyl alcohol from chewing Tobacco. Raw alcohol in the mouth causes high readings.

I was drunk. Not more than .15. After the video proved I had chew in while blowing, the courts removed all breath test evidence. I plead guilty to DUI as long as it was treated as if it were a below .15 case. I received a deferred judgement. Staying out of trouble for probation period would erase the case from the courts.....just not DMV.

My AME doesn't want to hear about false readings related to mouth alcohol. He wants monitoring, HIMS, AA, counseling, etc.

For someone like me who chooses business activities over social, drinking was not something I enjoyed or found comforting when stressed. Actually the opposite. Stressful situations cause me to consciously be on my A game.

I vowed never to consume alcohol ever again and it was easy. Now I have a good reason to drink water in social settings.

It's messed up that I have to go through all of this due to chewing Tobacco.
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Just because your BAC was tossed in a criminal matter doesn't mean it is tossed in a civil matter. The standards are not the same.
 
Soo does chewing tobacco have alcohol in it??
I gave that habit up years ago only used for about two years.
 
Fly Fish said:
I was drunk. I own it.

The issue is .15 or higher. AME can issue if one time event under .15

4th of July sting caught me pulling boat from the lake.
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last I checked pulling your boat out of the water isn't illegal. or reason for a breathalyzer.
 
The reason I don't drink any more is that it makes it impossible for me to be DUI.

No, I don't use drugs or smoke anything. If I am driving wacky, it would be due to a medical emergency.
 
benyflyguy said:
Soo does chewing tobacco have alcohol in it??
I gave that habit up years ago only used for about two years.
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Wintergreen has ethyl alcohol, yes. It gives off vapor of raw alcohol into equipment designed to pick up lung air containing alcohol.
 
bflynn said:
Welcome to the government. This is not a court, this is a safety program.
Click to expand...
I hate to interrupt a good anti-FAA rant, but the OP had his day in court and pleaded guilty. So this is just a consequence of his guilt. I'm not sure why anyone would think he should get to try this again. This doesn't even seem to be a close call to me. If this was the only time to OP drove drunk, and all he did was back down the boat ramp, he's got extraordinarily bad luck. But it is what it is.
 
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Lindberg said:
I hate to interrupt a good anti-FAA rant, but the OP had his day in court and plead guilty. So this is just a consequence of his guilt. I'm not sure why anyone would think he should get to try this again. This doesn't even seem to be a close call to me. If this was the only time to OP drove drunk, and all he did was back down the boat ramp, he's got extraordinarily bad luck. But it is what it is.
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You missed the point.

In a court, you have rules of fairness. In a safety program, you have rules that support the objective. Nobody can say "I'd might be unsafe, but it's not fair to me so I want a pass". There is no presumption of innocence in the medical system and that's not a bad thing.

BTW, I'm not just throwing this out. I've had my own tangle with the FAA medical over something that my doctor and my cardiologist are on top of and understand, better than the FAA. I've had to to jump through hoops as well. However, because I've been careful about not drinking and driving, I've never gotten tangled up in the HIMS program. Human Intervention Motivational Study? You bet, it's great motivation to stay out of it.
 
Lindberg said:
I hate to interrupt a good anti-FAA rant, but the OP had his day in court and plead guilty. So this is just a consequence of his guilt. I'm not sure why anyone would think he should get to try this again. This doesn't even seem to be a close call to me. If this was the only time to OP drove drunk, and all he did was back down the boat ramp, he's got extraordinarily bad luck. But it is what it is.
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The FAA only cares about alcohol related incidents. Even if charges were dropped, never going to court, I would be in the same predicament. Again, one DUI under .15= ISSUE for AME. My .19 was false

Not one of you understands. Chewing Tobacco must be removed from the mouth 15 or more minutes before test. I tested with tobacco in my lip 1st time and 2 ND test was immediately after I spit I try out. Both tests were false. .19 with chew in, .16 moments after spitting it out.

I deserve to jump through the hoops related to my true bac...not the bac with Copenhagen containing ethyl alcohol adding to lung air reading.
 
FlyFish said:
Not one of you understands. Chewing Tobacco must be removed from the mouth 15 or more minutes before test. I tested with tobacco in my lip 1st time and 2 ND test was immediately after I spit I try out. Both tests were false. .19 with chew in, .16 moments after spitting it out.

I deserve to jump through the hoops related to my true bac...not the bac with Copenhagen containing ethyl alcohol adding to lung air reading.
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Actually, think you don't understand. The time to have dealt with your tobacco defense was when you were getting tested. Once you blow >.15, game over with the FAA. You could get a sharp lawyer to get your conviction tossed, but FAA is another matter.
 
FlyFish said:
…My .19 was false…
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Inadmissible evidence is the appropriate word for both test results. I’m curious if any field sobriety tests were administered or blood given for evidence.

It’s also not unknown for PBT vs certified/calibrated breathalyzers to show wildly different reading. I had an airman blow .12 on the PBT, .14 on the certified and the blood draw was much higher than that. That one went nearly died from ETOH poisoning.
 
And I just met a guy who found out in his last week of REHAB that his blood draw BAC was 0.0.

Didn’t matter, FAA, ALPA, rehab facility and airline happy to admit him based on field sobriety test...

The FAA really really doesn’t care anything about reality, just what someone, nearly anyone, has accused you of.

Of course in the name of safety, probably best, just in case... wow.
 
I guess I get it. Getting behind the wheel after the three drinks in 30 min was clearly poor judgement. The DUI is deserved but the high bac that put him in much bigger FAA trouble is bittersweet
The AME has their hands tied with the numbers though.

I think the lesson learned to ppl who chew tobacco keep in mind that it can really booger things up!!! I didn’t know that.
 
Take a swig of mouthwash , swish it around in your mouth , expel it , and you will get an alcohol reading from a breath test.

Take a swig of whiskey , swish it around in your mouth , expel it , and you will get an alcohol reading from a breath test.

Take a swig of whiskey , swallow it , and the results will be higher because the residue is also in your throat and gullet. The remainder goes to your stomach , then has to get in your bloodstream to get to your lungs to read on a breath test. (takes longer)

Alcohol is alcohol and all the breath test machine does is measure the amount in air , not the blood. Alcohol must be in the blood to cause impairment.

In theory you could drink a bottle of whiskey and take a blood test immediately and there would not be any alcohol .... but wait for a while and you will be staggering drunk.

Just to clarify ... a breath test is accurate for giving a blood alcohol level , but it first must go thru stomach & blood & lungs to get to your mouth (breath) for the air test.

.
 
Hang 4 said:
Actually, think you don't understand. The time to have dealt with your tobacco defense was when you were getting tested. Once you blow >.15, game over with the FAA. You could get a sharp lawyer to get your conviction tossed, but FAA is another matter.
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You didn't read my post. The breath test was tossed and I was never convicted.
 
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