Finding a Copy of CFR Title 14 Part 23 for a certain date

[kontiki]

A question on required equipment came up on my last flight review. The example was, is the stall warning horn required. It's not in the list of equipment 91.205 requires you to have. There is nothing in the old POH. Looking in the TC, it says,"the basic equipment prescribed in the applicable regulations (See Certification Basis) must be installed."

Certification Basis was Part 23 Feb 1 1965 with Amendments 23-1 through 23-8. Is there an easy way to get a copy of that part as it looked Nov 12, 1971?

I can see how I could pull it out of the FAA.gov site paragraph at a time, seems like a lot of work.

Thanks,

 

[Bell206]

Is there an easy way to get a copy of that part as it looked Nov 12, 1971?

For the complete Part not that easy but possible. Easier to search/research by section or paragraph by subject matter. Stall warning is 23.207. Look under that section in the historical CFRs below for the amend/revision history:
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

 

[MauleSkinner]

Certification Basis was Part 23 Feb 1 1965 with Amendments 23-1 through 23-8. Is there an easy way to get a copy of that part as it looked Nov 12, 1971?

Why the 1971 date?

 

[kontiki]

TC is for a Grumman, A16EA. TC says date of application was July 2, 1970, TC issued Nov 12, 1971

 

[dmspilot]

That can be a difficult question to answer. The FARs required a clear and distinctive stall warning, either through aerodynamic properties or a device. The safe assumption to make is that the manufacturer added a stall warning device because it had to.

 

[flyingron]

I agree with DMSpilot. You won't find anything useful in an old FAR. This hasn't changed. The requirement was and is what dmspilot quoted: either a clear aerodynamic warning (buffet) or a stall warning. That said, unless you have an STC for a change, you better have what the manufacturer put there for this.

 

[MauleSkinner]

TC is for a Grumman, A16EA. TC says date of application was July 2, 1970, TC issued Nov 12, 1971

The certification basis was the 1965 date…that’s what you want.

 

[flyingron]

I was able to find the stall warning section from a 1969 version of the FARs.

It was absolutely required then. That change to the FAR was to change the margin above the stall that the warning needs to trigger so it was required before.

 

[RyanShort1]

A question on required equipment came up on my last flight review. The example was, is the stall warning horn required. It's not in the list of equipment 91.205 requires you to have. There is nothing in the old POH. Looking in the TC, it says,"the basic equipment prescribed in the applicable regulations (See Certification Basis) must be installed."

Certification Basis was Part 23 Feb 1 1965 with Amendments 23-1 through 23-8. Is there an easy way to get a copy of that part as it looked Nov 12, 1971?

I can see how I could pull it out of the FAA.gov site paragraph at a time, seems like a lot of work.

Thanks,

Ah, but is it required by the aircraft’s installed equipment list? I’ve seen that question before on an FAA checkride.

 

[flyingron]

An aileron is not on the equipment list but it would be hard to argue that your plane was legal to fly with one missing.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Ah, but is it required by the aircraft’s installed equipment list? I’ve seen that question before on an FAA checkride.

If it’s required by certification, will it show up on an equipment list?

 

[flyingron]

What makes you even think there is an equipment list?

 

[Bell206]

If it’s required by certification, will it show up on an equipment list?

Not necessarily. Depends on the item. There is guidance on equipment list creation but as I recall it is buried somewhere. Regardless, as part of the original certification the OEM provided a proper equipment list with some OEMs maintaining copies of the original if one needed to recreate the list.

What makes you even think there is an equipment list?

FYI: Equipment Lists are part of the TC and type design requirements and the list is part of the certified empty weight. Majority of TC'd aircraft have them just as your Navion is required to have a current EL.

 

[flyingron]

FYI: Equipment Lists are part of the TC and type design requirements and the list is part of the certified empty weight. Majority of TC'd aircraft have them just as your Navion is required to have a current EL.

But it doesn't list everything on the airplane. Just stuff installed over and above the basic airframe. You won't find the gear horn on it (Navions don't have an artificial stall warning), for example.

 

[Bell206]

What makes you even think there is an equipment list?

But it doesn't list everything on the airplane.

I was merely replying to your question if an equipment list existed, not what was listed on it. The Equipment List is directly tied to the Certified Empty Weight as it lists the condition/configuration of the aircraft when weighed and satisfies a certain certification requirement. While there is no set standard that I know of, the Equipment List includes items not covered by the "basic certification equipment" as noted in the OP Post 1, so stall warning, fuel quantity items, etc are usually not included in the original equipment list. That is why it is a real pain to recreate the required TC equipment list if the original is lost and the OEM does not have a copy.

 

[JAWS]

Does the owner's manual discuss the stall warning system anywhere? If a separate horn is discussed, then it is most likely original.
Going to Bell206's link above and searching for stall warning, you can verify that it is most likely an original required item, versus a mod/STC. The owner's manual for an AA1B I found online talked about the stall warning horn.

Also talked about the electric flaps and pitot heat. Do those need to be working too?

https://yankee-aviation.com/pohs.htm