Raptor Aircraft

steingar said:
Yahbut there are airplane designs from the 1930's that could have outdone it in almost every respect. He accomplished nothing new. And when someone makes that level of noise claiming they're going to reinvent the wheel they tend to get a lot of attention.
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The Spartan Executive, a single-engine GA aircraft of the 1930’s cruised at 215 mph, had a ceiling of 24,000’ and a 1000 mile range. If the Raptor could have met those humble performance goals (85 years later) it’s buyers would’ve been pleased, even if it was nowhere close to the original performance claims.
 
Brad Smith said:
The Spartan Executive, a single-engine GA aircraft of the 1930’s cruised at 215 mph, had a ceiling of 24,000’ and a 1000 mile range. If the Raptor could have met those humble performance goals (85 years later) it’s buyers would’ve been pleased, even if it was nowhere close to the original performance claims.
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Since vaporware seems to be the rage nowadays maybe we could “reimagine” the Spartan Executive. I’m thinking carbon fiber airframe, pressurization and a PT-6 out front. I’m going to call it the Athenian Robber Barron. Non refundable reservations are starting at $5,000.

Once I get a paid reservation I’ll get the glossy multimedia presentation put together, then website and brochures. First flight is scheduled for early 2022.

Does anyone have Mike Patey’s email?
 
Brad Smith said:
The Spartan Executive, a single-engine GA aircraft of the 1930’s cruised at 215 mph, had a ceiling of 24,000’ and a 1000 mile range. If the Raptor could have met those humble performance goals (85 years later) it’s buyers would’ve been pleased, even if it was nowhere close to the original performance claims.
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And it could have machine guns!

The 10th airframe in the production run was modified into a military demonstrator, the Spartan 7W-F, incorporating two forward-firing .30 calibre machine guns mounted on the port side near the firewall and firing through the propeller arc through a synchronized mechanism. A further modification was to provide a gunner's station at a dorsal hatch on the roof with a windscreen and machine gun fitted. Provision was also made for bomb racks under the wings.[5]
 
Matthew Rogers said:
And it could have machine guns!

The 10th airframe in the production run was modified into a military demonstrator, the Spartan 7W-F, incorporating two forward-firing .30 calibre machine guns mounted on the port side near the firewall and firing through the propeller arc through a synchronized mechanism. A further modification was to provide a gunner's station at a dorsal hatch on the roof with a windscreen and machine gun fitted. Provision was also made for bomb racks under the wings.[5]
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This would be awesome. Cirrus pilots cut people off on final while you could just shoot them down. :p
 
I remember reading that article when it was published. Shame so few were made.
 
Brad Smith said:
The Spartan Executive, a single-engine GA aircraft of the 1930’s cruised at 215 mph, had a ceiling of 24,000’ and a 1000 mile range. If the Raptor could have met those humble performance goals (85 years later) it’s buyers would’ve been pleased, even if it was nowhere close to the original performance claims.
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At 450 horsepower I'd hope itd go 215
 
Lindberg said:
It flew and did a bunch of other things the nervous nellies here said it would never do.
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What would that "bunch of things" be? Does it include uncontrolled flutter during a high speed taxi, repeated engine overheating that kept it from flying in temperatures above 75° F, destruction of the engine because of an improperly installed seal, a litany of problems "fixed" with 4130 steel, tape, and chunks of lead, and finally catastrophic failure of the PSRU that caused it to crash?

The thing it didn't do was meet even one of its predicted performance metrics. It was an across the board oh-fer. A washout. A face plant. A zero.

Yeah, it flew. Barely. And it didn't take long before Muller's kluged together TLAR overweight and underperforming carbon fiber pig did what most people expected it would do. It crashed.
 
3393RP said:
What would that "bunch of things" be? Does it include uncontrolled flutter during a high speed taxi, repeated engine overheating that kept it from flying in temperatures above 75° F, destruction of the engine because of an improperly installed seal, a litany of problems "fixed" with 4130 steel, tape, and chunks of lead, and finally catastrophic failure of the PSRU that caused it to crash?

The thing it didn't do was meet even one of its predicted performance metrics. It was an across the board oh-fer. A washout. A face plant. A zero.

Yeah, it flew. Barely. And it didn't take long before Muller's kluged together TLAR overweight and underperforming carbon fiber pig did what most people expected it would do. It crashed.
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Dude. Don't hold it in, the stress isn't good for you. Let it out, man. Tell us how you really feel. :)
 
3393RP said:
What would that "bunch of things" be?
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Taxied, took off, retracted the gear, made it out of the pattern, flew cross country, etc. It certainly didn't perform well, but this whole thread reminds me of a ridiculously overused quotation from Teddy Roosevelt:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

I have no dog in this fight; I'm just an amused bystander. But some of y'all just need to go design and build your own new aircraft models and show everyone how it's done. There's been some constructive feedback here, overshadowed by much more "Nanny, nanny, boo boo, I'm better than you."
 
Lindberg said:
Taxied, took off, retracted the gear, made it out of the pattern, flew cross country, etc. It certainly didn't perform well, but this whole thread reminds me of a ridiculously overused quotation from Teddy Roosevelt:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

I have no dog in this fight; I'm just an amused bystander. But some of y'all just need to go design and build your own new aircraft models and show everyone how it's done. There's been some constructive feedback here, overshadowed by much more "Nanny, nanny, boo boo, I'm better than you."
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In reality, there has been very little “nanny nanny boo boo” in the thread.
 
I haven't followed this thing since the beginning, but I have been one to jump on board with comedy. Because this is comical. I still don't know if the NfG plan was a joke or not. Roosevelt used words to change people's opinions, that was his skill. Being stubborn and relentless are great skills if you're going to charge up a hill carrying crappy rifles. But if you're trying to design something, a little math and a tiny bit of engineering knowledge will serve you better. You don't "wish" the physics to be better. So I think some ribbing is in order. Part of this feels like a con, and maybe that's not true, but misleading people with dreams based on concepts not grounded in reality shouldn't be expected to go without criticism.

Viable design? Let's see some calculations on the efficiencies of the motor/generator drive, and what the combined weight is going to be. Is he going to design electric motors, too? Or will they be from wrecked Teslas? If it's the later, where are the radiators going to go, and how the 400lb weight of two of them make more sense than just putting in a couple of 80 year old Continentals that would weight less for the same HP. Not counting the water cooling system, generator, or the engine driving the generator in the first place. It's just silly. Not a little silly, but "any adult who thought of this should change careers" silly. It's a half step away from a perpetual motion machine, or the x-ray goggles that they used to sell in the back of comic books.

So I make jokes, instead of doing the Eric Cartman speech of "This is so f*&*g stupid, that if it walks down the street, people would be going G*d D8m, that's a stupid *&ng idea!" And they kinda do.
 
Anyone else coping with Life after no more weekly Raptor Peter face plants?

iu

Where'd he go?
 
Rgbeard said:
Deep throat sez Big oil stepped in and kaboshed his plans. He had solid designs for a FL280 machine, 320kt all using sixteen special Lithium ion lantern cells.

He may have been “neutralized”.

I cannot reveal my sources.
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Shocking allegations!
 
What happened to all the people that put down deposits? Were they refunded?
 
You can bet there were a lot of people (POA) that believed in Peter’s predictions and thought this thing would come to fruition. They all remained silent in critiquing Peter and his aircraft failings because they thought he knew something we didn’t. He was a good salesman and his computer calculations made it seem that he made something revolutionary. He didn’t even reinvent the wheel (Velocity). And all those people from around the world flew into the open house. Those of us that have been in aviation for more than a day knew better.
 
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FormerHangie said:
If you're bored, you can start obsessing over DarkAero's progress. I suspect they will eventually create a usable airplane, but will miss their weight and performance goals.
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On the one hand, I'm impressed with their very steady progress. While it's taking them a long time, they are doing some heavy duty documentation to make certain they can produce a kit out of what they end up with. I am a bit underwhelmed with the choice of carbon fiber for the project. I don't think it has advantages over fiberglass composite to justify the increase in costs. I suspect they'll have a viable kit at the end, though I truly do wonder who's going to buy it.
 
FormerHangie said:
If you're bored, you can start obsessing over DarkAero's progress. I suspect they will eventually create a usable airplane, but will miss their weight and performance goals.
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I think they will be very close:
1. Documented CFD based testing.
2. Built prototypes.
3. Built and tested composite structures to determine weight and strength.

The one area they seem to have missed is time estimates. They are way low on how being methodical has slowed them down. probably not a bad thing as long as it does not stop them.
So, I have a lot more confidence in this one.

Tim
 
I think they have a much higher chance of success than the raptor.

I do think CF is an unnecessary material. Fiberglass would have made just as good an aircraft at lower cost. And I think the aircraft design will be a problem for sales. While it does have a decent volume of storage, it's broken up into a bunch of small compartments.
 
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