Possible to get IR with GPS only?

MountainDude

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MountainDude
If someone has a plane with a WAAS GPS, but no DME or VORs, is it possible to get an instrument rating in it and never learn the non-GPS way?
I understand the advantages of VOR/DME approaches, but that is not the question.
Thank you
 
Without a VOR receiver, you have no ability for an ILS. Last I knew you still have to do an ILS for the precision approach.
 
I think an LPV with DA of 300’ or less satisfies the precision approach requirement.

True but you still need to do two non-precision approaches using different navaids. So yes you need something in the plane besides a GPS.
 
Without a VOR receiver, you have no ability for an ILS. Last I knew you still have to do an ILS for the precision approach.

With a WAAS Navigator your problem is not having what you need for a precision approach. You need to think about what you will use for a non precision approach. Some WAAS navigators don’t have a NAV, VLOC receiver. A 420 WAASwouldbe an example.

The inverse of this example is having a non WAAS 420 means you can do a non precision approach with the box, but need a NAV radio for the precision approach.
 
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True but you still need to do two non-precision approaches using different navaids. So yes you need something in the plane besides a GPS.
Only mentioned not VOR or DMe. But if ADF is working could do an ole NDB approach right? If you can find one out there.
 
True but you still need to do two non-precision approaches using different navaids. So yes you need something in the plane besides a GPS.
Yeah. I doubt if there’s many planes out there with GPS Navigators without a NAV in them. Like a 430 or a 530. Installing a 400 or 420 in plane that didn’t already have a NAV wouldn’t make much sense.
 
The short answer is no. Review Appendix 7: Aircraft, Equipment, and Operational Requirements & Limitations in the Instrument Rating - Airplane ACS.

Longer answer:

Additionally, knowledge element IR.VI.A.K3 in Task VI.A. Nonprecision Approach states that the applicant demonstrates understanding of... "Ground-based and satellite-based navigation systems used for a nonprecision approach." Task VI.B. Precision Approach, knowledge element IR.VI.B.K3 states the applicant must demonstrate understanding of... "Ground-based and satellite-based navigation (orientation, course determination, equipment, tests and regulations, interference, appropriate use of navigation data, signal integrity)." There are other references to ground-based navigation in other Tasks within the ACS.

Of course, that's only speaking to the Instrument Rating - Airplane practical test itself. 14 CFR 61.65(d)(2)(ii)(c) requires "Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems... " on the 250nm cross country instrument training flight.

Therefore, it's not currently possible to meet the aeronautical experience requirements of 61.65(d) purely in an aircraft equipped with an IFR-certified GPS, and no other form of navigation equipment installed. Nor is such an aircraft acceptable for an applicant to present for an IRA practical test.

(To avoid confusion, a GNS430, for example, contains an IFR GPS along with LOC/VOR. A GNC355 is a GPS/COM only.)
 
I think an LPV with DA of 300’ or less satisfies the precision approach requirement.

I thought LPV was still technically a non-precision approach?
 
Just to clarify, if you had a single WAAS GNS430 or a single WAAS Avidyne IFD440 that had a vor antenna hooked up to it, you would be fine, correct?
 
Just to clarify, if you had a single WAAS GNS430 or a single WAAS Avidyne IFD440 that had a vor antenna hooked up to it, you would be fine, correct?

Potentially.

For the practical test, the applicant would need (at minimum):

- a charted, available RNAV approach featuring LPV DA of equal to or less than 300 feet HAT
- a charted, available RNAV approach which meets the ACS requirements of the non-precision approach task
- a charted, available VOR approach
- correctly and legally installed equipment in the aircraft to be presented
 
For the intent of a check ride it can be used as a precision approach.
But for planning purposes of alternate min then it is a non-precision approach

That’s because for planning purposes of an alt you must base it on LNAV, right?
 
"Ground-based and satellite-based navigation systems used for a nonprecision approach." Task VI.B. Precision Approach, knowledge element IR.VI.B.K3 states the applicant must demonstrate understanding of... "Ground-based and satellite-based navigation (orientation, course determination, equipment, tests and regulations, interference, appropriate use of navigation data, signal integrity)." There are other references to ground-based navigation in other Tasks within the ACS.

Hmm. Maybe I am missing something(?), but reading this it looks like you would have to have GPS installed, since the wording says "Ground based and satellite-based..." I know that wasn't the question here, but there was a thread a few days ago about taking an IR checkride with no GPS installed. Sometimes, the more I read the more confused I get! I'm just glad I took the checkride before GPS was so prevalent. :)
 
On second thought, maybe an applicant just has to demonstrate knowledge, not necessarily use.
 
if an ifr gps is installed, it has to have a current database and a gps approach has to be demonstrated...
 
If someone has a plane with a WAAS GPS, but no DME or VORs

You could do your instrument checkride in two planes. Most of the checkride in your own plane, then a VOR or ILS approach in a rental plane. Not as cheap as doing it all in your plane, but maybe better than doing the training entirely in a rental plane that’s unlike your own.

Lack of DME is not a factor because it’s normal to replace DME with GPS, on approaches that specify DME.

Just curious, after you get a rating, if you’re in IMC and GPS is jammed, what’s your plan? VOR is the navigation backup for most of us instrument pilots who rely on GPS.
 
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