1st Time FAA Medical Application Medication Questions

A

anonymous

Guest
I'm applying for a 1st class. I'm not sure if I should list my daily dose of kratom I take nearly every day. I do take some supplements like niacin, NAC (for liver). I will need to double check with the doctor tomorrow I guess?
 
Since Wikipedia says:

As of 2018, the efficacy and safety of kratom are unclear, and the drug was unapproved as a therapeutic agent due to the poor quality of the research.[7][8] In 2019, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) stated that there is no evidence that kratom is safe or effective for treating any condition.[9]

it seems as if it’s considered by the govt to be nothing at all. If it’s nothing, then there’s nothing to report.
 
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I think you only need to list prescription medications.

Pretty sure supplements and OTC stuff isn’t relevant.
 
cowman said:
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I think you only need to list prescription medications.
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You're wrong. It says DO YOU CURRENTLY USE ANY MEDICATION (PRESCRIPTION OR NONPRESCRIPTION)?

Pretty sure supplements and OTC stuff isn’t relevant.
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They most certainly are relevant and Kratom isn't a supplement. While it hasn't been scheduled yet, it's well on its way and the FDA advises people to stay away from it.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Perhaps see http://tinyurl.com/faaMedicalInfo for some general information and cautions about this process before filing that app.
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Alas, this information is also wrong. Before "advising" people it would be best to actually read what the FAA puts on the forms (MedXpress) and other information.

The form specifically says:

17a Do You Currently Use Any Medication (Prescription or Nonprescription)?
You are required to enter ALL prescription and nonprescription medication you take.
 
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@anonymous …

Please learn that, for the FAA, it isn’t always the medication or supplement being taken, but the need for or reasons it is being taken.

From WebMD.com (https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1513/kratom)

“Kratom is a tree. The leaves are used as a recreational drug and as medicine. Kratom is banned by some states in the U.S. due to safety concerns.

“People use kratom for withdrawal from heroin, morphine, and other opioid drugs, as well as cough, depression, anxiety, and many other conditions, but there is no good scientific evidence to support these uses.

“Using kratom can also be unsafe. Kratom use has been linked to serious side effects including hallucinations, seizures, liver damage, withdrawal, and death. Due to these and other serious safety concerns, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) continues to warn people to avoid using products containing kratom or its ingredients.”
​
Based on what is reported there, just the whiff of a mention of an association with heroin or opioid will have the FAA giving you a hard look.

Add in the mentions of depression and anxiety and the FAA may ask you for documentation on how you place on that scale.

So if you wish to continue to ingest kratom, be prepared for an interesting ride.

Heck, the side effects alone are contradictory to flight.
 
Okay, so when is a supplement a nonprescription medication?

If I ingest 5 of the nutty flavored seeds from an apple, have I ingested--depending on what you’re selling or how you look at it, say as a chemist--“vitamin c-17,” laetrile, or hydrogen cyanide...or did I merely ingested 5 apple seeds? (we know that If I ate a cup of Apple seeds in one sitting, I’d die. So there is some dose that impairs but doesn’t kill).

I hear on the Tim Ferriss podcast ads for various lionsmane mushroom teas for “clarity & focus.” (Ferriss usually also says in the ad, “with no visuals or unwanted effects that will interfere with work.’

Lately i’ve been hearing ads for various--even the spokesman admit--nasty looking & tasting “greens powder.” what about protein powders? Slim fast drinks? Various kombucha drinks touting “clear mind” or “digestion” or “immunity”?

Are turmeric capsules a nonprescription medicine for (maybe) lowering blood pressure or just a supplement that people in “blue zones” get a lot of in their diets for general health & long life?

You get my drift. It’s very confusing & often arbitrary. Is intent the arbiter of what constitutes an “over-the-counter medication”?
 
rhkennerly said:
Okay, so when is a supplement a nonprescription medication?

If I ingest 5 of the nutty flavored seeds from an apple, have I ingested--depending on what you’re selling or how you look at it, say as a chemist--“vitamin c-17,” laetrile, or hydrogen cyanide...or did I merely ingested 5 apple seeds? (we know that If I ate a cup of Apple seeds in one sitting, I’d die. So there is some dose that impairs but doesn’t kill).

I hear on the Tim Ferriss podcast ads for various lionsmane mushroom teas for “clarity & focus.” (Ferriss usually also says in the ad, “with no visuals or unwanted effects that will interfere with work.’

Lately i’ve been hearing ads for various--even the spokesman admit--nasty looking & tasting “greens powder.” what about protein powders? Slim fast drinks? Various kombucha drinks touting “clear mind” or “digestion” or “immunity”?

Are turmeric capsules a nonprescription medicine for (maybe) lowering blood pressure or just a supplement that people in “blue zones” get a lot of in their diets for general health & long life?

You get my drift. It’s very confusing & often arbitrary. Is intent the arbiter of what constitutes an “over-the-counter medication”?
Click to expand...

You ask for advice, then argue with thems that know more. But..

You are right! Go ahead, do what you think is right.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
What is mistaken? I don’t think that page says anything about reporting prescription or non-prescription medications.
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The first sentence under the heading AME consult should not have the word "prescription" in it.
 
flyingron said:
The first sentence under the heading AME consult should not have the word "prescription" in it.
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Well this sentence concerns whether a person should have an AME consult prior to filling out the form and having an exam, not what should be reported on the form.

So the question is whether people taking non-prescription medications should generally have an AME consult prior to submitting the form.

The OP’s case here would argue that may be a good idea, though I suspect for the vast majority of people using non-prescription meds simply putting them on the form does not raise any serious issues.

So what are your and other’s further thoughts in that context?
 
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PeterNSteinmetz said:
Well this sentence concerns whether a person should have an AME consult prior to filling out the form and having an exam, not what should be reported on the form.

So the question is whether people taking non-prescription medications should generally have an AME consult prior to submitting the form.

The OP’s case here would argue that may be a good idea, though I suspect for the vast majority of people using non-prescription meds I think simply putting them on the form does not raise any serious issues.

So what are your and other’s further thoughts in that context?
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I like your page, and I think it's a great service. Of course it's advice from SGOTI and should be taken with a grain of salt like all other such advice. If it were my page, I'd add something about counseling and therapy, and also point out that the question about meds is present tense and not "have you ever." These two areas come up here frequently and are swirling with confusion and OWTs.
 
rhkennerly said:
Okay, so when is a supplement a nonprescription medication?

If I ingest 5 of the nutty flavored seeds from an apple, have I ingested--depending on what you’re selling or how you look at it, say as a chemist--“vitamin c-17,” laetrile, or hydrogen cyanide...or did I merely ingested 5 apple seeds? (we know that If I ate a cup of Apple seeds in one sitting, I’d die. So there is some dose that impairs but doesn’t kill).

I hear on the Tim Ferriss podcast ads for various lionsmane mushroom teas for “clarity & focus.” (Ferriss usually also says in the ad, “with no visuals or unwanted effects that will interfere with work.’

Lately i’ve been hearing ads for various--even the spokesman admit--nasty looking & tasting “greens powder.” what about protein powders? Slim fast drinks? Various kombucha drinks touting “clear mind” or “digestion” or “immunity”?

Are turmeric capsules a nonprescription medicine for (maybe) lowering blood pressure or just a supplement that people in “blue zones” get a lot of in their diets for general health & long life?

You get my drift. It’s very confusing & often arbitrary. Is intent the arbiter of what constitutes an “over-the-counter medication”?
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If you consider apple seeds to be medication, then you should disclose that you take them.
 
There are plenty of non-prescription medicine that disqualify you from flying. If you show up "currently taking" them at your AME, you're likely in for issues.
 
Lindberg said:
If you consider apple seeds to be medication, then you should disclose that you take them.
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Apple seeds weren't on track to become a schedule I drug. Kratom was. It's still up in the air, but if you think that weaseling around wordings will mean anything if push comes to shove in an FAA enforcement, dream on.
 
Nevermind whether you should report it. I’m going to stay out of whether or not you need to report every supplement to the FAA.

My advice is to quit it altogether, if you are going to fly airplanes. It is a mild opioid. Very mild, true, but nevertheless it binds to the opioid receptors and therefore makes you unsafe to pilot an aircraft while under the influence or if you take it regularly.

I’d be careful with niacin too. I took too big a dose and it made me faint!
 
flyingron said:
Apple seeds weren't on track to become a schedule I drug. Kratom was. It's still up in the air, but if you think that weaseling around wordings will mean anything if push comes to shove in an FAA enforcement, dream on.
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Was that intended to be a response to what I said? Because I said nothing about reporting Kratom. For clarity, whether or not it has to be reported has zilch to do with what schedule, if any, it's on or proposed to be on.

In case it helps resolve any ambiguity:
Kratom = medication
Apple seeds != medication
Niacin != medication
NAC = medication

JMHO, IANAD, YMMV, HAND
 
I talked to the doctor today. He said quit the medication and it's not necessary to report it on medexpress. They do drug testing, it's not worth losing your license over this.
 
flyingron said:
You're wrong. It says DO YOU CURRENTLY USE ANY MEDICATION (PRESCRIPTION OR NONPRESCRIPTION)?


They most certainly are relevant and Kratom isn't a supplement. While it hasn't been scheduled yet, it's well on its way and the FDA advises people to stay away from it.
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OTC drugs obviously qualify as medication, but I don't see why nutritional supplements would.
 
Not a pharmacist, but how about this working definition:
If it needs FDA evaluation before you can sell it, because it is used to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent a disease, it's a medication.
If it doesn't, it's a supplement.



Edit: this being PoA, someone brings up that Vitamin C prevents scurvy, in three... two... one...
 
kath said:
Edit: this being PoA, someone brings up that Vitamin C prevents scurvy, in three... two... one...
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No wonder they made you an MC member. You know how this place works a little too well.
 
Palmpilot said:
OTC drugs obviously qualify as medication, but I don't see why nutritional supplements would.
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Again, kratom isn't quite a "nutritional supplement." It's not on the GRAS list and the FDA/DEA were on their way to scheduling it a few years ago, that still may happen.
 
flyingron said:
Again, kratom isn't quite a "nutritional supplement." It's not on the GRAS list and the FDA/DEA were on their way to scheduling it a few years ago, that still may happen.
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Yes, but it isn't quite a medicine either, is it?

If you use nicotine, must you report that as an OTC drug? Caffeine? Alcohol? These are all drugs and legal with impairing effects. The first two are addictive and all 3 can have harmful side effects. Why is kratom any different that these?
 
A friend gave some good advice years ago that may apply in situations such as this.

She said, "When I'm in doubt, I do without, until I find out."
 
flyingron said:
Again, kratom isn't quite a "nutritional supplement." It's not on the GRAS list and the FDA/DEA were on their way to scheduling it a few years ago, that still may happen.
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I didn't mean to imply that it was. Taken literally, there appeared to be an implication that ACTUAL supplements were relevant to the form's question about medications. That is what I was trying to clarify. (See below.)

cowman said:
...Pretty sure supplements and OTC stuff isn’t relevant.
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flyingron said:
...They most certainly are relevant and Kratom isn't a supplement. While it hasn't been scheduled yet, it's well on its way and the FDA advises people to stay away from it.
Click to expand...

Palmpilot said:
OTC drugs obviously qualify as medication, but I don't see why nutritional supplements would.
Click to expand...
 
flyingron said:
Apple seeds weren't on track to become a schedule I drug. Kratom was. It's still up in the air, but if you think that weaseling around wordings will mean anything if push comes to shove in an FAA enforcement, dream on.
Click to expand...

my point is that culture is outstripping FAA guidance.
 
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