School me on Garmin databases.

Joe_B1

Joe_B1

Line Up and Wait
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Joe_B
My head hurts! Their web site uses so much jargon I have no idea what I need. Here are the details.
GTN750xi, GNS530W, GTX345, 2xGI-275 (DG and ADI)

I am a VFR pilot, I want the GTN to crossfill to the GNS. I want terrain, I dont need synthetic vision but would be nice. I cant figure out if I need a pilot pack or a bundle or an annual subscription. I know I am going to drop about a grand on this stuff but I dont want something that is going to become useless in 28 days. I know that a lot of stuff ceases to function if the database expires but I cant find a list of what turns off. If I need anything for traffic, terrain, safe taxi, airspace stuff please let me know as well. I tried searching their support section to no avail, they seem to assume you know all this phraseology.

Thanks,
Joe
 
You definitely want a subscription, but for VFR I don't know that you need current databases. Those are all for IFR, as long as you have some current navigational aids for VFR flying. For IFR, you need some source of approach plates. I am sure you can get those on the 750, or you can get them on Garmin Pilot on your tablet. Beyond that you really only need Nav Data, and probably just on your 750, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to get it on the 530W as well. That database is $299/year for each unit. Add charts, and possibly some databases for the GI-275's, and you may be better off with a pilot pack if it covers everything. It may be worth a call to Garmin to explain what you have and what type of flying you will be doing and see what they recommend.
 
First of all the subscription is for a year, the nav data expires every 28 days, but you can download new stuff for that one fee. You can go into the menus on your devices and see how current your subscriptions are. VFR only, you might only want fresh nav data. Also, you can get a lot of that with Garmin Pilot if you have an Ipad, (like safe taxi). Agree Garmin does not make it easy. VFR only, not sure I'd spring for the full pilot pack. Might just get nav data and have everything else in GP. Assuming this is not a new install of that equipment, it should already have terrain for example.
 
Joe_B1 said:
I know I am going to drop about a grand on this stuff
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Sounds like you haven't installed/registered your stuff yet. Some of the options become clearer once you have an account on FlyGarmin and linked your equipment.
but I dont want something that is going to become useless in 28 days. I know that a lot of stuff ceases to function if the database expires but I cant find a list of what turns off.
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Actually, most of the stuff does continue to function.
 
When I did the panel upgrade, The 750 came with the nav data and terrain but it expired after about a month. The avionics guy said that if the data bases in the 530 and the 750 dont match, they wont crossfill. I have registered all my stuff on fly.garmin.com and that is how I got to the page that lets you buy stuff but yeah, a myriad of options. I agree that for VFR, I wont need the latest and greatest but there are lots of things that turn off if they databases expire and being a six pack pilot, I am loving all the bells and whistles! I also got some coupons. One for a 3 month trial of garmin pilot, one free GTNxi database update and one for the trainer app. So I will crank those in but it still wont talk to the 530 until I update that database. I think the best thing is to call garmin and talk to a human, explain all of this and see what they recommend.
 
Wow, talk about great customer service. I sent Garmin an email through their website and literally one minute after I hit send, the phone was ringing. Colin spent about 45 minutes with me explaining everything. Not only database management but how to do certain things that I was not clear on. I am all set now, thanks to all who responded to my post. Garmin is awesome!
 
asicer said:
So which combination of subscriptions did you buy?
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I didn't buy anything, I got a coupon code for one free update! it includes all the basic stuff. Basemap, terrain, obstacles, safe taxi and a bunch of other stuff. But, when this all expires, I will be buying the one pack without charts. All I need to do is get the SD card from the 750 and shove it into my computer and the app I downloaded will put all this stuff on the card! How awesome is that? He did tell me that if I wanted to update the cards in the 530W that I would need a special programmer that they sell for $70 so when I buy the one pack, I will buy that as well.

The only weirdness is that you pretty much have to talk to them to find out all this stuff. It isn't readily apparent from their website.
 
Joe_B1 said:
All I need to do is get the SD card from the 750 and shove it into my computer and the app I downloaded will put all this stuff on the card! How awesome is that?
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Actually, you can do one better. You don't have to re-use the same SD card all the time every time. Go on Amazon and buy a spare SD card (or two). New databases becomes available a few days before the current one expires. Download the new one on to the spare and then the next time you go airport, swap the cards. The card you took out becomes the new "spare" for you to install the next database.
 
Joe_B1 said:
I didn't buy anything, I got a coupon code for one free update! it includes all the basic stuff. Basemap, terrain, obstacles, safe taxi and a bunch of other stuff. But, when this all expires, I will be buying the one pack without charts. All I need to do is get the SD card from the 750 and shove it into my computer and the app I downloaded will put all this stuff on the card! How awesome is that? He did tell me that if I wanted to update the cards in the 530W that I would need a special programmer that they sell for $70 so when I buy the one pack, I will buy that as well.

The only weirdness is that you pretty much have to talk to them to find out all this stuff. It isn't readily apparent from their website.
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If it’s the Xi version of 750, you can actually use the charts on the screen. Play with it before you rule out the charts
 
WannFly said:
If it’s the Xi version of 750, you can actually use the charts on the screen. Play with it before you rule out the charts
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Think by charts he means approach plates. He said he was VFR only.
 
Yup, VFR only.
The one suggestion I had for Colin was that Garmin make a PC configurator. A program that let you sit at home in front of the PC with the manual and configure the many, many optional parameters and put a configuration on an SD card that you could take to the plane and load into the 750xi. The way it is now, you have to sit in front of that thing with a GPU and spend hours setting up all the user parameters. He told me that they were working on such a program.
 
asicer said:
Actually, you can do one better. You don't have to re-use the same SD card all the time every time. Go on Amazon and buy a spare SD card (or two). New databases becomes available a few days before the current one expires. Download the new one on to the spare and then the next time you go airport, swap the cards. The card you took out becomes the new "spare" for you to install the next database.
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Do you know the requirements? Size, speed, formatting?
 
If you just got the GPS, I wouldn’t worry about terrain for a while. No new mountains pop up. The speed antenna or tall buildings go up takes a long time.
 
TommyG said:
If you just got the GPS, I wouldn’t worry about terrain for a while. No new mountains pop up. The speed antenna or tall buildings go up takes a long time.
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It was a coupon for a free suite of databases. Once I entered the code it came back with a selection page. It wouldn't let me click ok until I selected one from each category. Basically it was designed to showcase the entire catalog of capabilities. Pretty sure it all eventually expires and then you get to pay for the ones you want. So I get the bells and whistles for a while.
 
They expire, but don't go away. VFR only, you don't need to renew all of them next year.
 
Just waiting for the next cycle. Some of the ones I want, expire shortly. Might as well maximize the freeness!
 
asicer said:
Actually, you can do one better. You don't have to re-use the same SD card all the time every time. Go on Amazon and buy a spare SD card (or two). New databases becomes available a few days before the current one expires. Download the new one on to the spare and then the next time you go airport, swap the cards. The card you took out becomes the new "spare" for you to install the next database.
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This is what I do with my G3X in my RV, keep a spare card.
 
If it’s for VFR only, you are jurist as well to get a one time update for both and then fly for a year or two. IFR is a completely different ballgame?
 
MBDiagMan said:
If it’s for VFR only, you are jurist as well to get a one time update for both and then fly for a year or two. IFR is a completely different ballgame?
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Well, I am getting a free one cycle update for the complete package including my 530W. There is some question as to whether the Crossfill features stop functioning after the packages expire. So I will update everything and in a month or two when they expire, I will see what features I lose and make a determination as to what I need to buy. But it looks like the one pack is a good solution.
 
I am not familiar with cross fill. I think if they are made current they will work fine for VFR for a long time.
 
Crossfilling is Garmin's term for data transfer between two units. For example, I have a GTN750xi and a GNS530W. They state that if Crossfill is enabled then active flight plans and active direct to waypoints will be shared between the two. If I had two GTN's then a lot more goes between them.
 
Then it sounds as if there is a setting that can turn off cross fill allowing VFR navigation with outdated databases.
 
asicer said:
Actually, you can do one better. You don't have to re-use the same SD card all the time every time. Go on Amazon and buy a spare SD card (or two). New databases becomes available a few days before the current one expires. Download the new one on to the spare and then the next time you go airport, swap the cards. The card you took out becomes the new "spare" for you to install the next database.
Click to expand...

I thought it had to be a Garmin card, generic cards would not be accepted?
 
MBDiagMan said:
Then it sounds as if there is a setting that can turn off cross fill allowing VFR navigation with outdated databases.
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From what I have been told, if either has an outdated database, it won't Crossfill.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
I thought it had to be a Garmin card, generic cards would not be accepted?
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The GTN can use a generic SD card, the GNS uses a special type that even requires a special programmer.

The GTN downloads the data to internal memory so it's approved, and you can even remove the card after the databases are installed. The GNS uses the data on the card so the cards have to stay plugged in for it to work.
 
Joe_B1 said:
The GTN downloads the data to internal memory so it's approved, and you can even remove the card after the databases are installed.
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Thx, but I think the terrain database is an exception and not downloaded.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Thx, but I think the terrain database is an exception and not downloaded.
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The Garmin support guy told me it all gets loaded into internal memory. He said that is how the FAA approved the use of generic cards. I will most likely leave mine installed anyway.
 
Hang 4 said:
True in a non-xi GTN, It does download in a GTNxi.
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I am not an expert at this stuff as shown by the title of this thread. I will say that a couple of days ago, I spent quite a while on the phone with a Garmin tech guy who managed to teach me quite a bit. He was well aware of all the Garmin equipment I had in my plane which includes a 750xi and he did say that when you insert an SD card, the 750xi downloads the databases to internal memory. He also mentioned that because of that, you no longer need to have a special Garmin SD card.

Whether or not that is true, I cannot say but as soon as the WX clears up around here, I am going to insert a non Garmin SD card into my xi and install a complete set of databases and see what happens.
 
It will work as the Garmin guy said. In reality, you can use a non-Garmin card just fine in either an GTNxi or a GTN. The older GTN requires a Garmin card to comply with the way Garmin got it approved. The other difference, as the Garmin guy said, the xi moves terrain into internal memory vs leaving it parked in the SD card in the plain GTN.
 
asicer said:
Actually, you can do one better. You don't have to re-use the same SD card all the time every time. Go on Amazon and buy a spare SD card (or two). New databases becomes available a few days before the current one expires. Download the new one on to the spare and then the next time you go airport, swap the cards. The card you took out becomes the new "spare" for you to install the next database.
Click to expand...
My GTN 650 already came with that spare SD card, so I'd be surprised if the 750 didn't as well.

Yes, Garmin has great customer service. Yes, the databases can ve confusing. As a VFR pilot, you probably care even more about a current obstacle database than a current nav database, so in future years, it may or may not make sense to buy a one-off update for the obstacle database in your 750 once or twice each year, and update the other databases only when you feel like it (the free FltPlan Go app will give you latest airspace, airport frequencies, etc).
 
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