RC guy plays air traffic control.

DFH65

DFH65

En-Route
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
2,609
Display Name
Display name:
DFH65
So I was flying in to my local airport the other night. They let RC guys fly there a lot and generally we have no issues. So as I call on downwind I hear on the radio, "Ok Cessna clear to bring it in." So I do a full stop taxi round and take off again for another landing. On downwind I announce and say full stop. I hear on the radio, "Ok Cessna full stop."

I was tempted to go talk to the guy but needed to get gas and get the thing put away before dark so I didn't get a chance. I will mention it to the airport manager but ugh some people's children.
 
I don't know your airport, but if the airport has received federal funding of any type in the last 20 years they are violating their grant assurances allowing R/C operations on the airport. The FAA considers R/C non-aeronautical use.
 
Was it a kid or an adult?
 
That is PAINFUL. I used to fly a ton of RC and cannot imagine tying up a non-towered field with those operations. Given that planes can arrive straight in with no comms, I really don't see how the uses are compatible. Is there just an assumption that the RC guys will get out of the way of incoming aircraft? If so, that is putting a lot on the RC pilots.
 
These were older adults. Like I said generally not a problem and I don't mind that they are there but just stay off the radio.
 
I think of when Andy had to take Barney's bullet away from him. Someone needs to take the Radio Shack hand held radio away from someone. :)

180
 
I agree that this is a cringey situation and the guy should stay off the radio but at least it sounds like he is more trying to positively confirm with you that the RCs have cleared the way rather than actually control the full scale aircraft. Benefit of the doubt: from his point of view he is doing what he is supposed to (clearing the pattern when a full scale plane needs it) and then going above and beyond to make that clear to you to avoid possible confusion. Still not well executed but IMO different than actually playing ATC and issuing clearances.

…or I could be wrong and he really means “cleared to land”
 
midwestpa24 said:
I don't know your airport, but if the airport has received federal funding of any type in the last 20 years they are violating their grant assurances allowing R/C operations on the airport. The FAA considers R/C non-aeronautical use.
Click to expand...

I know we get Federal funding and we let the local 5-0 use taxiways for non-aviation stuff (obstacle course driving)
 
coma24 said:
That is PAINFUL. I used to fly a ton of RC and cannot imagine tying up a non-towered field with those operations. Given that planes can arrive straight in with no comms, I really don't see how the uses are compatible. Is there just an assumption that the RC guys will get out of the way of incoming aircraft? If so, that is putting a lot on the RC pilots.
Click to expand...

According to the airport manager they have been told to, "immediately clear the airspace when an airplane is in the pattern or in motion on the ground." He will follow up with them.
 
DFH65 said:
According to the airport manager they have been told to, "immediately clear the airspace when an airplane is in the pattern or in motion on the ground." He will follow up with them.
Click to expand...

It is my understanding of FCC rules that you need a station license to talk on the aviation band. As an aircraft, your FAA registration gives you that license. As an airport or FBO, you have a license for the respective unicorn or ASRI frequency*. Those RC yahoos have no such license and need to shut the eff up. The only time they should ever talk is to avert a dangerous situation, e.g. their toy crashed and is fouling a runway.



* I know this gets at times violated, but any use of a handheld needs to be tied to a legal use. The fuel truck is licensed as an accessory to the FBO, a handheld used by a pilot is covered under the aircraft.
 
To be honest, he isn't doing any harm. It's just a visceral response to someone who isn't in an airplane and "playing" ATC. "Who the heck are you to give me clearance? You're not in charge of that". Kind of like how we all react to the Karen in the HOA.

But in the future, just to prevent any possible communication problems, as posted above he could just listen, not transmit. Unless of course there is an emergency (they can't clear the airspace or runway in time, etc.). If that happens then there is a larger problem.
 
Last edited:
WDD said:
To be honest, he isn't doing any harm. It's just a visceral response to someone who isn't in an airplane and "playing" ATC. "Who the heck are you to give me clearance? You're not in charge of that". Kind of like the Karen in the HOA.
Click to expand...

Actually my wife and I were laughing at it at the time. My concern is it does have the potential to cause confusion at a critical phase of flight. For example the pilot might infer there is another aircraft somewhere in the pattern that they were unaware of depending on what is said.
 
EdFred said:
I know we get Federal funding and we let the local 5-0 use taxiways for non-aviation stuff (obstacle course driving)
Click to expand...

The FAA has also pursued airports for doing that as well. Years ago I had received a summary spreadsheet of Grant Assurance violations against airports, and probably half were R/C operations and police or vehicle racing that was going on at the airports. The FAA can fine the airport, refuse to issue any future grants, and even require the airport to pay back any grants received in the last 20 years. Many small airports don't read the fine print.
 
DFH65 said:
Actually my wife and I were laughing at it at the time. My concern is it does have the potential to cause confusion at a critical phase of flight. For example the pilot might infer there is another aircraft somewhere in the pattern that they were unaware of depending on what is said.
Click to expand...

Maybe next time ask him for winds, any notams, and progressive taxi instructions.............
 
WDD said:
To be honest, he isn't doing any harm. It's just a visceral response to someone who isn't in an airplane and "playing" ATC. "Who the heck are you to give me clearance? You're not in charge of that". Kind of like the Karen in the HOA.

Now, if he starts giving direction/instructions, then that does cross the line. I think that a chat about clear, short communications that just acknowledge that you're coming in vs giving directions is all that is needed. Maybe also how to refer to someone with their tail number vs "Cessna".
Click to expand...

I disagree At best, this is distracting chatter on a frequency where it shouldn't exist.

At worst, he/she doesn't understand the process and walks over a position annoucement that is critical to be heard by others.
 
RudyP said:
I agree that this is a cringey situation and the guy should stay off the radio but at least it sounds like he is more trying to positively confirm with you that the RCs have cleared the way rather than actually control the full scale aircraft. Benefit of the doubt: from his point of view he is doing what he is supposed to (clearing the pattern when a full scale plane needs it) and then going above and beyond to make that clear to you to avoid possible confusion. Still not well executed but IMO different than actually playing ATC and issuing clearances.

…or I could be wrong and he really means “cleared to land”
Click to expand...
I read it how you did. He was just communicating. Not really helpful, but not really any harm either.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The FAA has also pursued airports for doing that as well. Years ago I had received a summary spreadsheet of Grant Assurance violations against airports, and probably half were R/C operations and police or vehicle racing that was going on at the airports. The FAA can fine the airport, refuse to issue any future grants, and even require the airport to pay back any grants received in the last 20 years. Many small airports don't read the fine print.
Click to expand...

How often do those enforcements happen? How severe do they typically go for this sort of thing?

Could also be a case of airport management making a calculated decision to find additional ways to make the airport attractive to the community (not just a place that makes airplane noise) and maybe bring in a few bucks along the way if enforcement isn't severe.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I don't know your airport, but if the airport has received federal funding of any type in the last 20 years they are violating their grant assurances allowing R/C operations on the airport. The FAA considers R/C non-aeronautical use.
Click to expand...
there is a local airport here where the airport manager flies his RC plane around all day..... i am certain he knows the rules and receives federal funding. at least he stays off the radio... so yeah... nordo RC in the pattern that are incredibly difficult to spot
 
I don't know, to me it sounds like he was just telling you the RC planes were down and your path was clear rather than trying to give you a clearance. Should he be on the radio at all? That's another question.
 
It did not seem to me like he was trying to direct traffic, but rather just affirming what was going on.

I can think of a million things to get your panties in a wad about, but this is not one of them.
 
Seanaldinho said:
How often do those enforcements happen? How severe do they typically go for this sort of thing?

Could also be a case of airport management making a calculated decision to find additional ways to make the airport attractive to the community (not just a place that makes airplane noise) and maybe bring in a few bucks along the way if enforcement isn't severe.
Click to expand...

https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_compliance/complaints/

As usual with the FAA, it depends on something getting their attention about it. Either a complaint or an incident/accident that draws attention to it. May also catch the eye of an FAA official that is randomly at the airport for other reasons.

Whatever money or good will that it could raise pales in comparison to the potential loss of federal grant funding. R/C guys aren't going to pony up millions for a runway rehab when it needs it.
 
Organized RCers who know how to behave themselves are not a problem. We had them at a small field in ND, they listened to the radio and got out of the way if there was a student doing laps in the pattern. They had a small shack with a patio at the far end of the airport where their bored wives hung out while the men played. After the FAA started to come down on airports that allowed this, the RCers went out and leased a piece of land to build an 'airport'.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I don't know your airport, but if the airport has received federal funding of any type in the last 20 years they are violating their grant assurances allowing R/C operations on the airport. The FAA considers R/C non-aeronautical use.
Click to expand...
How so? I don't need anyone's permission to fly my drone/uas/rc quadcopter on, over, or around an untowered airport.
 
Last edited:
Sebastian (X26) lets the RC guys use one of the closed runways. Pretty sure they get federal funding.
 
Our RC field is on airport property (we have our own runway) and we monitor the frequency so we can stay the hell out of the way if full-scale traffic is nearby. . Many of us have PPL’s and understand the rules. We never talk on the radio. It’s an uncontrolled field so it’s up to arriving/departing traffic to deal with the frequency. As I said, we stay the hell out of the way! That’s it.
 
I don't mind them being there just would prefer they didn't use the radio unless it was really important. They are generally less trouble than the meat missiles. :)

At the other airport I fly regularly out of (not federally funded) we host rocket clubs and free flight (rubber band) aircraft (thy also fly some RC stuff). The rocket guys are really good about keeping out of the way. The free flight guys were too close to the runway last time IMO since they can't control where their stuff goes.
 
Last edited:
Sounds less egregious to me than the old timer that keys the mike and ties up the CTAF while he tries to figure out who he is, where he is and what he wants to say...
 
idahoflier said:
Sounds less egregious to me than the old timer that keys the mike and ties up the CTAF while he tries to figure out who he is, where he is and what he wants to say...
Click to expand...

"Any traffic in the pattern please advise! :goofy:
 
DFH65 said:
So I was flying in to my local airport the other night. They let RC guys fly there a lot and generally we have no issues. So as I call on downwind I hear on the radio, "Ok Cessna clear to bring it in." So I do a full stop taxi round and take off again for another landing. On downwind I announce and say full stop. I hear on the radio, "Ok Cessna full stop."
Click to expand...

Any un-towered airport around here, the joke would be on this guy.

The above would be more like, "Ok Cessna, cle.... " SQUEEEEAAAAKKKKRRRRNNNK.... "ASDASDFASDF DOWNwInD FuLL Staaaaaahhhhppp uhhhh......"... "[unintelligible blocked traffic from airport with same CTAF only 15 miles away..... ADSFADKSFJASLDKFJASDF].... "Cessna 1234M 20 miles South.... no.... south-east.... no north.... wait................. yes south inbound.... at 3000'.... no 2850' full stop 45 degree entry left downwind runway (sic) TWENTY full-stop-touch-and-go......... wait...." --------------------- [Random CTAF-squealing noises for thirteen seconds.........].....

By then, their toys would have been smashed to bits by the helo ignoring everyone in the pattern and landing on the taxiway or the CJ2 blasting in on a 10 mile straight in not making calls or talking on the wrong frequency but who cares since nobody can talk on CTAF here anyway since it's so congested with morons who can't talk on the radio......

CTAF - as useless to toy pilots as it is to real pilots.
 
What airport fears the FAA after Chicago Meigs, most do what they want or just blow off the FAA as they know they wont do anything. No one went to jail over Meigs, I don't think they ever paid the FAA $33,000 fine.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top