More on noise at GAI
- Thread starter wsuffa
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wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
GAI's not exactly "rural". Maybe at one time, like 50 years ago, but definitely not now. And it's inside the DC SFRA.
61 years ago, when I took a flying lesson at GAI, it was very rural. Everybody that is now complaining about the noise has moved there since then. The noise is more, but not new.
I am sure that when they go to BWI, DCA, or DIA for a commercial airline flight, they take no thought for the hapless citizens trapped in those sound polluted zones.
I have long thought that anyone who makes a noise complaint about airplanes should be put on a lifetime no fly list, with no appeal.
I am sure that when they go to BWI, DCA, or DIA for a commercial airline flight, they take no thought for the hapless citizens trapped in those sound polluted zones.
I have long thought that anyone who makes a noise complaint about airplanes should be put on a lifetime no fly list, with no appeal.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Adsb with flightradar24 and flightaware have exasperated this problem. People had no clue how many airplanes were overhead until these programs became available. Then you have the noise buttons. Around here most of the complaints are generated by a small number of activists. One guy posts every flight near his house on a fb page with commentary about how he is being targeted.
sarangan
Pattern Altitude
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Andrew, CFI-I
I live next to an airport, and I find lawnmowers, motorcycles and weed wackers make far greater noise closer to peoples' ears for longer durations than the airplanes that fly overhead. Some day I would love to make a quantitative comparison of these noise decibels and their durations.
Let me guess. Plane sense?
Pugs
Cleared for Takeoff
I thought this thread was going to be about the GAI CTAF
Always entertaining it is.
There's a zoom call tomorrow with all the parties involved (FAA, Pilots, Airport and Karens) and it should be interesting. Apparently, most of the complaints are tied back to a couple folks who have leveraged technology to have a "push a button and file a complaint" Alexa every time they hear a plane. In the long run it won't matter, GAI is doomed. It's too urban and in the middle of the most PC county in MD and the locals will come up with a way to get it closed. Social justice or some other reason.
Artimas
Pre-takeoff checklist
I agree. I live 1/4 mile from the end of a runway. To me, the biggest noise polluters are power washers that rumble and squeal for hours at a time, with landscape equipment a close second. Airplanes are way less obtrusive.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yup, that's it, although I don't see him using that name any more. Talk about being obsessed.
You really should partake in the Zoom call and say exactly that
I suspect that they realized the futility of it all, they have been at it forever and accomplished nothing.
Shepherd
Final Approach
The Zoom call will be very carefully orchestrated to achieve the predetermined outcome.
AlleyCat67
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AleyCat67
Yes, they do like to use the radios over there!I thought this thread was going to be about the GAI CTAF
Obviously not too sympathetic with the homeowners who have voluntarily moved next to the airport, but reading the article it sounds like the real complaint is the increase due to constant flight training. I know GAI is a bit of a pilot mill (especially Israeli for some reason). I guedsd if I moved next to a low-key rural airport and it gradually became a busy training facility, I might get PO'd, though that's part of the bargain.
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Velocity173
Not just rural but urban areas as well. At PDK Atlanta they have sensors set up around the city that measure the decibels from overflying aircraft. They also have residents that are common complainers to the city. Only reason I even knew is that I Googled the N number of our aircraft and it showed up as a noise complaint on PDK’s website. Apparently I exceeded some decibel threshold and showed up as “red” on their report.
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GeorgeC
They had maybe a half a dozen 172s a decade ago, now their fleet is 3-4x as big. Despite that, I suspect the airport is still not nearly as busy now as it was pre-911.
DrewG
Pre-takeoff checklist
Same situation here. In addition to those items, I get more annoyed by kids screaming and squealing constantly while jumping on trampolines and frolicking in/around pools while I'm enjoying some patio time than I ever do with airplanes constantly overhead. This is very "get off my lawn" of me, but I've certainly noticed it since my boys have gotten into their upper teens and I don't have young ones hanging around the house anymore!
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, they are at it more than ever now, on FB, and they have a twitter account now linked to a free adsb site that reports every flight over head.
There was an uproar about the MA rep who put in a bill for $1,000 landing fees and their fb page made it into one of the threads. So some pilots, figured they would discourage the complainers by telling them the would make it a point to circle over their houses, giving the complainers the ammo they have so long, longed for, evidence they are being targeted. We pilots need to be smarter.
My point in all this is that while it is the truth that these people are mostly whack a doodles with a cause, they are gaining traction with politicians, which is not good for GA.
82Wideglide
Pre-Flight
I'm 3/4 mile west the final of KCOS. I agree with sarangan --- ground noise bothers me more than airplane noise. My dogs are the worst ! Great Pyrenees bark at EVERYTHING !
Every now and then one of the big jets comes in louder / lower than the rest of the traffic, I can see how that would bug somebody, but the GA stuff is so much quieter ?
Every now and then one of the big jets comes in louder / lower than the rest of the traffic, I can see how that would bug somebody, but the GA stuff is so much quieter ?
tspear
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Timothy
I got my license at KGAI just over a decade ago.
If you stay within the pattern as defined by the AIM you really do not go over a lot of residential area. The problem was the flight school taught a 2 mile pattern.
For those on the call, I suggest you push for a sound study, and make sure it includes landscaping. Because I know it is much louder.
Tim
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
If you stay within the pattern as defined by the AIM you really do not go over a lot of residential area. The problem was the flight school taught a 2 mile pattern.
For those on the call, I suggest you push for a sound study, and make sure it includes landscaping. Because I know it is much louder.
Tim
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Pugs
Cleared for Takeoff
Correct and the numbers bear that out. Even with WIFI (and others at the field encouraged to) not doing T&G's at night the complaints grow.
I've been flying from there for three years and never done a T&G there. I get airborne and get out (while reducing rpm as soon as safe) and come back and land having done any work elsewhere. I've only had one landing there at night and that was in Feb and barely night and it was following a GPS approach.
Anyone who wants to attend the zoom call register here - https://montgomerycountyairpark.com...ail&utm_term=0_9ccc2da79f-d04196bea9-62994309
FormerHangie
En-Route
I would totally accept more airplane noise if I could trade it for those damnable backpack blowers.
Steve Costello
Pre-takeoff checklist
Every weekday afternoon/evening, and allll da*n day on Saturday and Sunday, all I hear and smell is the incessant buzzing of 2-cycle engines piercing the air (can literally hear one right now, about 3 houses down)... and people are complaining about the occasional airplane that is flying into an airport that was there long before the houses were?
Completely ridiculous.
Completely ridiculous.
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Kayoh@190
Years ago I had a nastigram from PDK up on my fridge. Apparently rang the bell in a Citation out of there one early morning. Oops!
Pugs
Cleared for Takeoff
It was an interesting Zoom call with about 200 attendees including Montgomery County Revenue Authority , Maryland Aviation Administration, FAA, AOPA,Baltimore FSDO, NBAA and the airport manager. They spent a lot of time going over the reality of the situation including some interesting facts
- Of the over 2000 noise complaints received 98% were from three households
- Inside of 6 miles of GAI Mont County handles noise, outside FAA
- Last noise study was done in 93 - FAA only do a full noise study when asked.
- Despite lots of protests to the facts, GAI is not busier than ever. https://montgomerycountyairpark.com...rts-from-Maryland-Aviation-Administration.pdf
- Noise sensors mid-field keep count of take offs and full stops but don't capture T&G/missed approach or helo ops. Airport Mgr adds in the others using other data for full ops count.
- They spent a lot of time discussing why the traffic patterns were laid out the way they are. Still people in chat (1) couldn't understand the difference between MSL/AGL despite it being explained several times (2) They think we should fly the pattern at 2000'
Pointing out we have to come down some time wasn't helpful.- WIFI does 40% of their training at other fields already
The best part was the ongoing chat session as the NIMBYs continued to harp on things like "they're doing acrobatics (sic) over my house at 400' " and "it's all those foreign students and their touch and goes"
The FAA and other panelist were professional and answered all the questions accurately and patiently but it's clear there is no satisfying these folks (Oh, and we're killing everyone with lead pollution)
If your airport has one of these be sure and attend.