Thinking about being a full time CFI again

saddletramp

saddletramp

Line Up and Wait
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Oct 15, 2015
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saddletramp
Without going into all the nitty gritty details I'm considering taking a job as a full-time CFI. I haven't flown full-time as a pilot since the mid 90's. I am semi-retired, 65, & in relatively good health. The company offering the job is excited having a CFI on board that isn't just building time & will be around for the long term. They've had a slew of young CFI's start with them & quit after getting their magic 1,500 hours.

I'm financially set, own a 182, & won't be instructing for the money but more for doing something I really enjoy. My wife is excited to see me pursue something I really love.

Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
 
saddletramp said:
Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
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Quick answers:
a) Does it really matter?
b) Of course not!
c) Sure, who wouldn't?
 
saddletramp said:
Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
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In order:

Upswing? I'm not sure training ever abated. At least near me, it's been a constant swarm of activity. CV didn't even seem to faze things.

Yes, somewhat. Primary students will kill ya ;)

Yes, definitely!! I wish I had more access to seasoned pilots when I was going up through my ratings. I've learned more with a few sessions with the old crudgeons than entire blocks of time with the 250 hour wonder-CFIs and time-builders.
 
Flight training has been in one of those booms like the 90s driven by low interest rates and fuel costs. You will likely be as busy as you want if you are at the right school. Do you really want to work full time?
 
I would take instruction from you with that much experience, but I did get my PPL from someone just like you situationally speaking of course. The thing that worries me personally about retirement is finding enough things to do do occupy all my free time. I saw my dad retire and literally sit in front of the TV all day and go down physically where as my father in law plays golf like 3 or 4 times a week and is in great shape at 75. So, I think this would be a great side hustle to give you a little gas money for your plane, pass along your knowledge and experience and get you out of the house and sitting in front of the boob tube all day. Just my two cents.
 
If in your semi-retirement you want to commit to a full-time job as a CFI and the job is available, I don't understand why anything else matters.

So what if it's not on an upswing? What's the worst case scenario? You ride the current bump, enjoy yourself, make a difference, and then slow down or find something else? Horrible! :D

(there is definitely at least a bump - I'm seeing it and I only do recurrent and transition training very part time)
 
saddletramp said:
Without going into all the nitty gritty details I'm considering taking a job as a full-time CFI. I haven't flown full-time as a pilot since the mid 90's. I am semi-retired, 65, & in relatively good health. The company offering the job is excited having a CFI on board that isn't just building time & will be around for the long term. They've had a slew of young CFI's start with them & quit after getting their magic 1,500 hours.

I'm financially set, own a 182, & won't be instructing for the money but more for doing something I really enjoy. My wife is excited to see me pursue something I really love.

Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
Click to expand...

All of the above. I think there is a big market for folk wanting to receive instruction from geezers. Look around here. Seems like just about every other day a new member checks in asking questions about should they start flying at their age. And whadda ya got to lose? If you don’t like it then you can just...

 
Go for it. Be realistic about the number of lessons you want to do in a day, IMHO 3 different lessons, especially if they're all primary students, is a pretty full load. (Sure, plenty of instructors do more than that, but, they're the 20-something time-builders).
 
At 68, I’m looking to knock the rust off & get back in the left seat. Given the popularity of the AOPA Rusty Pilot’s seminars, there is great demand for refresher & pre-biennial checkride training. Older rusty pilots seem to be the back stay of the LSA program, not new students. Given the absolute language around failed 3rd class Medical’s & the pain of getting SIs out of OKC, not to mention in the time required, that makes sense.

That could be a niche that is especially attractive to you. I’ve met a lot of nice young people on there way up & out in my recent survey of training facilities. I’d prefer to fly with you.
 
I’m 72 and have been active as a part time independent CFI and CFII for the last few years. I’m more busy than I want to be, but I do enjoy it. Full time…no thank you. You do have to be on your toes; primary students can do stuff that will bite you quick.
 
I’ve had an old CFI and a young CFI. The worst thing my old CFI ever did was forget to turn the radio volume back up while we were doing T&Gs on 23 at RDU, back when there was only one 23. The worst thing the young one did was crash a plane trying to burn air. So yeah I’d go with an old guy.
 
I would add my voice to those that say "just do it!" You appear to be the kind of CFI that a lot of us are looking for ... an instructor with a love of, and a passion for, teaching the art of flying to others.
 
Make sure you have good liability insurance and jump right in.
 
saddletramp said:
Without going into all the nitty gritty details I'm considering taking a job as a full-time CFI. I haven't flown full-time as a pilot since the mid 90's. I am semi-retired, 65, & in relatively good health. The company offering the job is excited having a CFI on board that isn't just building time & will be around for the long term. They've had a slew of young CFI's start with them & quit after getting their magic 1,500 hours.

I'm financially set, own a 182, & won't be instructing for the money but more for doing something I really enjoy. My wife is excited to see me pursue something I really love.

Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
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You are the kind of instructor I look for, but not through a school.
 
weilke said:
Make sure you have good liability insurance and jump right in.
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That is a very good point. Young instructors frequently lack enough assets to make them much of a target. If you're living in a nicely feathered nest, get all the instructor liability insurance that money can buy. You'll probably never need it. But if you do, it will have been the best investment you ever made.

The down side is that if you max out the coverage, you'll have to do a lot of instruction to break even.
 
Thanks for the replies. I should add that when I said full time I will be an independent CFI on a 1099, but dedicated to one flight school. I will control how often I work.

I also planned on getting CFI insurance as some have suggested. I also already have a large umbrella liability insurance policy because I used to own a horse boarding & training center.

I have been instructing very actively in the last 5 years mostly doing Flight Reviews so I feel quite current on FAR's etc.

I'm about 99% there that I will pursuing this starting in August.
 
saddletramp said:
Thanks for the replies. I should add that when I said full time I will be an independent CFI on a 1099, but dedicated to one flight school. I will control how often I work.
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That’s the way to do it, that’s what I do, independent contractor on a 1099, commission only. I work when I want, as much or as little as I want, and I don’t have to do any of the bureaucratic nonsense the paid employees have to do.

I also planned on getting CFI insurance as some have suggested. I also already have a large umbrella liability insurance policy because I used to own a horse boarding & training center.
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Read that policy carefully and make sure it doesn’t exclude aviation activities, if you haven’t already.
 
saddletramp said:
Thanks for the replies. I should add that when I said full time I will be an independent CFI on a 1099, but dedicated to one flight school. I will control how often I work.

I also planned on getting CFI insurance as some have suggested. I also already have a large umbrella liability insurance policy because I used to own a horse boarding & training center.
Click to expand...

Carefully look at the insurance situation as a 1099. Some 'CFI liability' policies only cover the non-owned risk of an aircraft getting bent while you are instructing. You want to have a policy that covers your 'instructional liability', that is someone claiming that your faulty instruction caused him to fly into a cloud and die. You want to make sure that the school has a policy that includes you as IC and that you have your own policy that 'stacks' with that coverage. These claims are rare, probably because usually flight schools have no assets and instructors are young and broke. Once there is a target that has assets (e.g. UND foundation and Cirrus), the sue-o-rama begins.
 
Someone mentioned liability.

I'd certainly look into incorporating my commercial flying operations away from the family assets as well as having sufficient liability insurance. At our age, preserving wealth in the event of catrosphe is paramount.
 
I'm sure it varies regionally, but in my area, even the young instructors have waiting lists, so I'm pretty sure you'd have plenty of students to choose from!

Personally, the age or hours wouldn't be a selling point, but the fact that you'd be instructing because you enjoy aviation. Those are the instructors that are fun to take lessons from even when the lessons themselves are frustrating. :)
 
rhkennerly said:
I'd certainly look into incorporating my commercial flying operations away from the family assets as well as having sufficient liability insurance. At our age, preserving wealth in the event of catrosphe is paramount.
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Incorporating and LLCs do not shield the provider from professional liability incurred from a personally provided service.
It may isolate the flight school owner from liability created by one of his instructors.
 
My best CFI's have all been guys in their 60's doing it for fun and airplane money.

My worst CFI was in his late 70's and frequently became irate in the air. He was also my airplane partner at the time.

I did recently get some formation dual with a younger guy who was an Air Force UPT instructor. That was probably my best lesson ever.
 
saddletramp said:
Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely.
If the VA weren't paying for my training at the college part 141 program (GI Bill) that I'm starting this fall, I would be continuing on part 61 and looking for someone just like you...lots of experience, not in it as just a stepping stone, passionate about instructing.
 
saddletramp said:
Without going into all the nitty gritty details I'm considering taking a job as a full-time CFI. I haven't flown full-time as a pilot since the mid 90's. I am semi-retired, 65, & in relatively good health. The company offering the job is excited having a CFI on board that isn't just building time & will be around for the long term. They've had a slew of young CFI's start with them & quit after getting their magic 1,500 hours.

I'm financially set, own a 182, & won't be instructing for the money but more for doing something I really enjoy. My wife is excited to see me pursue something I really love.

Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
Click to expand...


This is what I'm doing, but on the sport CFI level, and just freelancing. I'm 62, don't have any medical issues, don't have commercial or IR, got 1250 total hrs. obtained PPL in 1977.
 
saddletramp said:
I also already have a large umbrella liability insurance policy because I used to own a horse boarding & training center.
Click to expand...
Read that policy carefully. Many have aviation exclusions. Also business exclusions, although I have to assume you checked that out in connection with the horse boarding and training center.
 
Just get a standard liability policy through an aviation insurer. It’s more so for the gear up landings/other damage in someone else’s aircraft while training, rather than the theoretical lawsuit because you are linked to an injury crash. I’m in claims, seen many of the former, none of the latter. The policy of course pays for your defense in the case you do get dragged into a wrongful death or injury case, but they have the burden of proof that you are some how negligent. And unless the student was dropped by 4 CFIs and all of a sudden you sign him off, or there is YouTube video of you two doing aerobatics in a 172, that’s a hard case to make.
 
Geosync said:
Just get a standard liability policy through an aviation insurer. It’s more so for the gear up landings/other damage in someone else’s aircraft while training, rather than the theoretical lawsuit because you are linked to an injury crash. I’m in claims, seen many of the former, none of the latter. The policy of course pays for your defense in the case you do get dragged into a wrongful death or injury case, but they have the burden of proof that you are some how negligent. And unless the student was dropped by 4 CFIs and all of a sudden you sign him off, or there is YouTube video of you two doing aerobatics in a 172, that’s a hard case to make.
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"Negligent instruction," basically instructor malpractice - it's the CFI's fault the pilot crashed when the CFI was not in the airplane - is indeed a very hard case to prove. Some states don't even recognize its existence. But if the CFI is in the airplane and it is a training flight, there no difference between a gear up landing and a death other than the result, so I don't see why one is run of the mill and the other only theoretical from a liability standpoint.

From an exposure standpoint, sure. I agree with you completely. Damage to the aircraft is far more likely to occur than an injury. Anyone with an aircraft or instructor policy with the premium broken down to show the liability and hull coverage cost can see that.
 
My original PPL instructor was a post-Korean War F-86 pilot whom used to own an SNJ-5. Yeah, dude was cool as **** and taught me waaay more than just how to fly a plane. Do it.
 
YOLO.

Do it and don't look back.

And since I am now officially an old person, be careful with insurance clauses.
 
saddletramp said:
I'm financially set, own a 182, & won't be instructing for the money but more for doing something I really enjoy. My wife is excited to see me pursue something I really love get out of the house.
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1) FIFY
2) This is exactly what I'd like to do in a few years when I retire
3) Why be an independent contractor (unless they require it)? As desperate for CFI's that don't fly off after 1 1/2 years, they'd let you set the terms of how many hours / what days you work, etc. even as an employee. In addition, the flight school you'd hook up should cover insurance for you if you're an employee.
4) LMK where you're at and when you're taking students! I'm on my 2nd CFII in 6 months because of leaving after hitting the 1500 hours, and will need a 3rd CFII before the year is out for the same reason.
 
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saddletramp said:
Without going into all the nitty gritty details I'm considering taking a job as a full-time CFI. I haven't flown full-time as a pilot since the mid 90's. I am semi-retired, 65, & in relatively good health. The company offering the job is excited having a CFI on board that isn't just building time & will be around for the long term. They've had a slew of young CFI's start with them & quit after getting their magic 1,500 hours.

I'm financially set, own a 182, & won't be instructing for the money but more for doing something I really enjoy. My wife is excited to see me pursue something I really love.

Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?[/QUOT]
saddletramp said:
Without going into all the nitty gritty details I'm considering taking a job as a full-time CFI. I haven't flown full-time as a pilot since the mid 90's. I am semi-retired, 65, & in relatively good health. The company offering the job is excited having a CFI on board that isn't just building time & will be around for the long term. They've had a slew of young CFI's start with them & quit after getting their magic 1,500 hours.

I'm financially set, own a 182, & won't be instructing for the money but more for doing something I really enjoy. My wife is excited to see me pursue something I really love.

Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
saddletramp said:
Without going into all the nitty gritty details I'm considering taking a job as a full-time CFI. I haven't flown full-time as a pilot since the mid 90's. I am semi-retired, 65, & in relatively good health. The company offering the job is excited having a CFI on board that isn't just building time & will be around for the long term. They've had a slew of young CFI's start with them & quit after getting their magic 1,500 hours.

I'm financially set, own a 182, & won't be instructing for the money but more for doing something I really enjoy. My wife is excited to see me pursue something I really love.

Is the general consensus that flight training is on the upswing? Im I crazy to consider this? Would you want to receive instruction from an old guy with thousands of hours?
Click to expand...
Hi Saddletramp, this old guy would love to fly with you! Learning to fly has always been just out of my reach, but now since I just retired, I’m determined to make it happen. You don’t by chance live in my neck of the woods do ya? I’m in NY. Go for it, age is just a number!
 
So the journey officially begins. I wanted to pursue flight instructing a year & a half ago when I retired from my previous career but COVID ruined those plans. No flight schools at least in my area were hiring.

For the past year I've been driving a semi truck. The money was good but the hours were long. I actually like driving truck & even though I was driving regionally I was still out at least two nights a week. I have weekends home. This morning I called the owner of the trucking company & gave my two weeks notice.

Also this morning I ordered business cards online. I'll start flying around August 1. In the meantime I'll be studying my head off. Even though I've continually instructed part time I feel the need to really hit the books. A good pilot is continually learning.
 
saddletramp said:
So the journey officially begins. I wanted to pursue flight instructing a year & a half ago when I retired from my previous career but COVID ruined those plans. No flight schools at least in my area were hiring.

For the past year I've been driving a semi truck. The money was good but the hours were long. I actually like driving truck & even though I was driving regionally I was still out at least two nights a week. I have weekends home. This morning I called the owner of the trucking company & gave my two weeks notice.

Also this morning I ordered business cards online. I'll start flying around August 1. In the meantime I'll be studying my head off. Even though I've continually instructed part time I feel the need to really hit the books. A good pilot is continually learning.
Click to expand...
Best of luck to you!
 
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