drone refeuling

[X3 Skier]

Back when I was Chief Engineer for ATF (YF-22/YF-23), I had contact with both the RAH-66 and A-12 Programs. We had direction from Fort Fumble to cooperate with then on Avionics so as to develop “common modules” for various functions that could be mass produced and then programmed for the 3 different platforms.

I immediately assessed this was a pipe dream and we did our own thing after seeing the state of the other two programs. They had enough trouble with everything else that Avionics seemed to be WAY done the list.

Another “Good Idea” from people inside the Beltway who had essentially zero experience with the real world of Deveolpment. Almost as silly as a “common Fighter” saving tons of money.

Cheers

 

[Velocity173]

Back when I was Chief Engineer for ATF (YF-22/YF-23), I had contact with both the RAH-66 and A-12 Programs. We had direction from Fort Fumble to cooperate with then on Avionics so as to develop “common modules” for various functions that could be mass produced and then programmed for the 3 different platforms.

I immediately assessed this was a pipe dream and we did our own thing after seeing the state of the other two programs. They had enough trouble with everything else that Avionics seemed to be WAY done the list.

Another “Good Idea” from people inside the Beltway who had essentially zero experience with the real world of Deveolpment. Almost as silly as a “common Fighter” saving tons of money.

Cheers

Sounds like the Rockwell Collins CAAS that’s used today between the CH-47 and UH-60.
https://www.collinsaerospace.com/-/...hure.pdf?rev=504833b6138b42f7ac929d931f623e0d

 

[X3 Skier]

Sounds like the Rockwell Collins CAAS that’s used today between the CH-47 and UH-60.
https://www.collinsaerospace.com/-/...hure.pdf?rev=504833b6138b42f7ac929d931f623e0d

Back then it was envisioned a rack filled with a bunch of modules that could be used for whatever task required in the helo, fighter or attack avionics box(s) Those things look like common boxes for common functions like nav, displays, etc. The concept was not common boxes, but common “boards” that could be used in different boxes for different things. I’m guessing that after 40 some years, it might be possible but I’m out of the game so I have no clue (as usual).

Cheers.

 

[Bob Noel]

otoh - who has seen a platform SPO/contractor team that hasn't suffered from NIH?

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

I was going to apply for the new AWO program being stood up to pilot the MQ-25 until the program authorization was finally released and it said "no prior officers"

 

[Bob Noel]

I was going to apply for the new AWO program being stood up to pilot the MQ-25 until the program authorization was finally released and it said "no prior officers"

well, that is certainly one of the most idiotic rules. ever.

and this post is truly a candidate for understatement of the year...

 

[X3 Skier]

otoh - who has seen a platform SPO/contractor team that hasn't suffered from NIH?

OTOOH, NIH can mean it can’t be invented anywhere

Cheers

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

well, that is certainly one of the most idiotic rules. ever.

and this post is truly a candidate for understatement of the year...

Yup. Nothing surprises me with the Navy anymore. I'd have been alllll over that if that clause wasn't in there.

Here's the actual clause straight out of the program authorization:

d.Active or Reserve officers,or former officers of other branches of the armed servicesare not eligible to apply for the officer candidate program under this Program Authorization.

 

[35 AoA]

Back when I was Chief Engineer for ATF (YF-22/YF-23), I had contact with both the RAH-66 and A-12 Programs. We had direction from Fort Fumble to cooperate with then on Avionics so as to develop “common modules” for various functions that could be mass produced and then programmed for the 3 different platforms.

I immediately assessed this was a pipe dream and we did our own thing after seeing the state of the other two programs. They had enough trouble with everything else that Avionics seemed to be WAY done the list.

Another “Good Idea” from people inside the Beltway who had essentially zero experience with the real world of Deveolpment. Almost as silly as a “common Fighter” saving tons of money.

Cheers

Yeah my interpretation of the A-12 program in hindsight, having seen a few things at a much lower classification level from the manufacturer's historical database, is that we weren't even on the same planet at the time that we needed to be for flight 1. Like intakes were still being designed when the thing was supposed to be in the sky. Forget avionics at that point. To be fair, I believe you guys flew the YF prototypes with a lot of the front end stuff still being a paper tiger, right? My assumption is that the 12-15 years that transpired after that was mostly taking that stuff to reality. Similar process for the Super Hornet, which (as you know) was born from the ashes of the A-12. First conceived on paper in the early-mid 1990s, flown in what, 1997........big Hornet with a lot of gas until the mid 2000s, much better by the end of the decade, completely different airplane and arguably what the A-12 was intended to be (less the fuel fraction) in the last few lots coming off the line. I believe in the avionics department, the A-12 ultimately informed the avmux developments we had on the SH program, as well as the APG-79 AESA benefitting from some of that development effort.

Wasn't Lehman a drilling SELRES dude at the time, or maybe immediately before taking the job? Also, Oceana got one of those nice dorito hangars. Still the nicest thing (like Whidbey) on base 30+ years later.

 

[X3 Skier]

Yeah my interpretation of the A-12 program in hindsight, having seen a few things at a much lower classification level from the manufacturer's historical database, is that we weren't even on the same planet at the time that we needed to be for flight 1. Like intakes were still being designed when the thing was supposed to be in the sky. Forget avionics at that point. To be fair, I believe you guys flew the YF prototypes with a lot of the front end stuff still being a paper tiger, right? My assumption is that the 12-15 years that transpired after that was mostly taking that stuff to reality. Similar process for the Super Hornet, which (as you know) was born from the ashes of the A-12. First conceived on paper in the early-mid 1990s, flown in what, 1997........big Hornet with a lot of gas until the mid 2000s, much better by the end of the decade, completely different airplane and arguably what the A-12 was intended to be (less the fuel fraction) in the last few lots coming off the line. I believe in the avionics department, the A-12 ultimately informed the avmux developments we had on the SH program, as well as the APG-79 AESA benefitting from some of that development effort.

Wasn't Lehman a drilling SELRES dude at the time, or maybe immediately before taking the job? Also, Oceana got one of those nice dorito hangars. Still the nicest thing (like Whidbey) on base 30+ years later.

The YF’s had just enough avionics for flight. Both contractors had prototype airborne avionics flying in a 757 for Lockheed and a BAC-111 for Northrop. Primarily for the LPI Radar but also had a lot of low RCS Antennas for comm, etc. They both also had full up ground labs for S/W and H/W development.

My boss went on a goat rope to all three programs for a big review. The A-12 was supposed to fly in a year(?) but all they had to show was chalk lines on the floor where the assembly jigs would be sometime later

Cheers

 

[Velocity173]

The YF’s had just enough avionics for flight. Both contractors had prototype airborne avionics flying in a 757 for Lockheed and a BAC-111 for Northrop. Primarily for the LPI Radar but also had a lot of low RCS Antennas for comm, etc. They both also had full up ground labs for S/W and H/W development.

My boss went on a goat rope to all three programs for a big review. The A-12 was supposed to fly in a year(?) but all they had to show was chalk lines on the floor where the assembly jigs would be sometime later

Cheers

Theres a funny story in the book The Pentagon Wars about that. There were some high ranking officials that went to tour the GD / MD plant to see the progress of the aircraft. All that was in there were some chalk lines and random assembly equipment. Some of which was thrown in there at the last minute that didn’t even have anything to do with the A-12. Needless to say, GD / MD were way behind and SecDef / Congress were ****ed.

 

[Pugs]

The YF’s had just enough avionics for flight. Both contractors had prototype airborne avionics flying in a 757 for Lockheed and a BAC-111 for Northrop.

My office at that point was just south of BWI and I'd see the BAC-111 taking off occasionally. Distinct from all the standard traffic for all its noise and smoke, it was like 1972 again.