Purchasing Piper Cherokee

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Don Draper

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Don Draper
Good evening,

I learned how to fly with a Cherokee 160 and 180. My plans are to buy a Cherokee 140 or 160 to obtain my 1500 hrs to pursue the airlines. I am looking to spend $25k-$30k. What do I need to look out for? How many hours is too many? I am not wanting to go down the path of an engine rehaul shortly after buying. Does anyone have a guide?

Thank you
 
Don Draper said:
I am looking to spend $25k-$30k. What do I need to look out for? How many hours is too many? I am not wanting to go down the path of an engine rehaul shortly after buying. Does anyone have a guide?
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It will be very, very tough to find what you’re looking for with that budget.
 
I just bought a 180 a few weeks ago for 33k. It needs some radios (though functional) and ADS-b. And at 1600 hours, an overhaul could be imminent. Gives you an idea of the market. The lowest I've seen even 140s in this market is about 35k.

As of right now I'm torn on which direction I go with it. It sure is fun to fly. But I could really easily probably sell it in the low 40's. If I wait a few months I'll have dual kx155's coming out of the Cherokee Six that's under it in the hangar and sell it as an IFR platform. Just not sure if the install cost would pay off.
 
If I was you, I'd talk to whoever will be your a/p. They might know of one that doesn't fly as much but is in good condition.
 
I bought mine for 31k in 2015. With all the upgrades in and out I’ve done to it, and with comparable offerings I’ve seen, I wouldn’t sell it for less than 50k today.
 
Should owners always do a overhaul at 2000 hrs? I see many sellers selling planes near 1600 hrs. Expected cost to be in the 10-20k range for an overhaul?
 
It takes some people years to fly 400 hours. It’s taken me 6. Even then there are two schools of thought and there is a thread about flying past TBO. If my boroscope pictures are clean, the engine isn’t making metal, and my compression in each cylinder is good, I’d have no problem flying it past TBO. But at my current rate and with about 1300 hours to go, I’m thinking it will be at least 4 or 5 more years before I worry about it.
 
It's a seller's dream market right now. You probably won't find much for deals at the moment, and if you do that should probably be a red flag.
 
Don Draper said:
Should owners always do a overhaul at 2000 hrs? I see many sellers selling planes near 1600 hrs. Expected cost to be in the 10-20k range for an overhaul?
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TBOs vary by engine make and model. Some have a 1400 hour TBO, others go as high as 2400. 2000 is common for many engines.
And the type and frequency of use matter, too. Some can accumulate way beyond their recommended TBO time, and others are junk before half their time is up.
 
Why not gain hours by becoming a cfi? Is that not the more conventional route?
 
CFI route was the plan before I decided to purchase my own plane. Looks as if I am going back towards that plan of becoming a CFI. I live minutes from the University that trains student pilots.

Too many untruthful sellers and I financially cannot afford to buy a mistake of an aircraft.
 
Don Draper said:
CFI route was the plan before I decided to purchase my own plane. Looks as if I am going back towards that plan of becoming a CFI. I live minutes from the University that trains student pilots.

Too many untruthful sellers and I financially cannot afford to buy a mistake of an aircraft.
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If I may be brutally blunt...

If all you have available to purchase the aircraft is $25,000 to $30,000, and don't have other funds already available for upgrades, repairs, etc, frankly, you don't currently have the financial means to purchase and fly a small aircraft.

Please remember that the purchase price is only the beginning.

Avgas is how much per gallon ($5+/gal)? the 140 burns 8 gph (plus or minus). 1500 hours of flying would be $60,000 just for the gas. 1500 hours of flying will also be $15,000 for your engine reserve, plus tie-down, plus the annual inspection. etc etc etc

But good luck in your goal of owning and flying. Seriously, not being sarcastic.
 
Keep renting. One big malfunction and you could have a very expensive paperweight.
 
Honestly I'm about to buy a 140 with a nearly run out 160hp engine and spending far more than that. So, good luck.
 
Todd82 said:
Honestly I'm about to buy a 140 with a nearly run out 160hp engine and spending far more than that. So, good luck.
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Update on that... Aforementioned "nearly run out 160hp engine" was already making a good bit of metal and so I passed.
 
Wow...maybe I should cash out on my 69 172 that's just had a complete panel and avionics/autopilot upgrade and fresh annual. Was planning on doing a Penn Yan swap out next year (the paint is about a 5, interior about 8)...without the engine, I have about 55K into her. All cash, paid for, but there you are, as a data point (the only reason I have a 172 is that I could not find a Cherokee when I was in the market back in '17...like cherokees more than the cessna stuff, but an airplane is an airplane.)
 
Check out two seaters! Cessna 140s and similar. Or a club. Don’t buy the BS that if you don’t have hundreds of thousands in cash just laying around you are poor little pauper who cannot be allowed at the big kids table of flying an owned airplane! That line of crap boils my blood.

I have a c140 I paid 20k for 3 years ago, I’ve put over 300 hours on it... I’d advise ya to buy as simple as you can- less to break and if you are just drilling holes in the sky ForeFlight and a string taped to the windshield are really the only avionics ya need! :). Ok- maybe a bit hyperbolic but less hyperbolic than “ya gotta have mountains of burnable money besides the few hundred thousand in the savings account”

yes prices are up but I bet you can find a flyable $30,000 machine! Solid prebuy and consider 2 seaters...
 
Huckster79 said:
Check out two seaters! Cessna 140s and similar. Or a club. Don’t buy the BS that if you don’t have hundreds of thousands in cash just laying around you are poor little pauper who cannot be allowed at the big kids table of flying an owned airplane! That line of crap boils my blood.

I have a c140 I paid 20k for 3 years ago, I’ve put over 300 hours on it... I’d advise ya to buy as simple as you can- less to break and if you are just drilling holes in the sky ForeFlight and a string taped to the windshield are really the only avionics ya need! :). Ok- maybe a bit hyperbolic but less hyperbolic than “ya gotta have mountains of burnable money besides the few hundred thousand in the savings account”

yes prices are up but I bet you can find a flyable $30,000 machine! Solid precut and consider 2 seaters...
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Ercoupes go in that price range all the time. There's an AA-1B down Kentucky right now for $20k with time left on the engine even.
 
Don Draper said:
Good evening,

I learned how to fly with a Cherokee 160 and 180. My plans are to buy a Cherokee 140 or 160 to obtain my 1500 hrs to pursue the airlines. I am looking to spend $25k-$30k. What do I need to look out for? How many hours is too many? I am not wanting to go down the path of an engine rehaul shortly after buying. Does anyone have a guide?

Thank you
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Have your prebuy arranged by Mike Busch.
 
Todd82 said:
Something must be up there. Even with a crate engine that isn't a bad deal in today's market.
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No pilot seat for one. Apparently been sitting for awhile so it has the usual issues. Last flight iirc was March per flight watch or whatever it’s called
 
Randomskylane said:
No pilot seat for one. Apparently been sitting for awhile so it has the usual issues. Last flight iirc was March per flight watch or whatever it’s called
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But it's got a metal prop! Lol
 
Don Draper said:
Good evening,

I learned how to fly with a Cherokee 160 and 180. My plans are to buy a Cherokee 140 or 160 to obtain my 1500 hrs to pursue the airlines. I am looking to spend $25k-$30k. What do I need to look out for? How many hours is too many? I am not wanting to go down the path of an engine rehaul shortly after buying. Does anyone have a guide?

Thank you
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This isn't my bird, but if its anything like mine was (which I sold last month), it will sell in MINUTES (this one went up for sale this morning)...so if you like it, act QUICK!!! Its the best I've seen recently at this price:

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1666846-1965-piper-cherokee-140.html
 
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Brad Z said:
Unfortunately I'm not personally familiar with that plane...it's located at Hyde Field (W32), a 1.1nm cross country flight from VKX, my home field.
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The CL post has been taken down. I suspect it's the plane that I asked a potential partner about that had old equipment in the panel; otherwise it was begging for a new owner. Just update the panel and fly. Neither of us had enough interest to go over to Hyde and ask the mechanic about it. It was there for annual.
 
Bob Noel said:
If I may be brutally blunt...

If all you have available to purchase the aircraft is $25,000 to $30,000, and don't have other funds already available for upgrades, repairs, etc, frankly, you don't currently have the financial means to purchase and fly a small aircraft.

Please remember that the purchase price is only the beginning.

Avgas is how much per gallon ($5+/gal)? the 140 burns 8 gph (plus or minus). 1500 hours of flying would be $60,000 just for the gas. 1500 hours of flying will also be $15,000 for your engine reserve, plus tie-down, plus the annual inspection. etc etc etc

But good luck in your goal of owning and flying. Seriously, not being sarcastic.
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I know a few people who effectively 'lease' their own planes from themselves, there's an established spreadsheet derived "dry" rate and that money goes to a seperate account after they fly. One of these people flies an older, fairly 'workhorse-esq' PA-28, I believe 180(?) and their operational expense only tach dry rate is $48/hr.. fly about 80-100 hrs / yr, and that dry rate is designed to cover non fuel related expenses.. most of it going to the annual.

Although attainable to more people than just the stereotypical "rich guy" flying is still very much reserved for people with plenty of "excess" money
 
^IE, even if you're not renting, you're still going to be spending at least $50-$70 per hour when you fly
 
Tantalum said:
^IE, even if you're not renting, you're still going to be spending at least $50-$70 per hour when you fly
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Cheap recreation.

A 2-tank scuba dive in south Florida is around $100 per hour of bottom time, not counting air fills and equipment maintenance. And that’s about the cheapest diving. Get serious about cave or wreck diving and it will be several hundred dollars per hour of dive time.

When I was racing cars, I figured nearly $1k per hour of track time. And I wasn’t spending enough to win.
 
benyflyguy said:
Lol. That’s a “yes dear I have it listed but nobody buying right now” post
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I called on an over-priced arrow the other day. The guy refused to show it to me. He said he was listing it because his unlicensed partner wanted out, but he liked his situation, with half the fixed costs being paid by a non-flying partner. I thought about tipping off the partner, but decided his karma would have to come another day....plus, I considered it valuable as my reminder why I don't want a partner.
 
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