ADHD pickle, possible childhood diagnoses found after receiving first class medical.

[sarangan]

Very true, how could one otherwise comply? But remember that the OP stated "but we figured out that if I had a bottle I must have had a diagnoses at some point". So if one were a Federal prosecutor bent on prosecuting the OP, could one argue that since the OP stated that and apparently discussed with his parents about it and they concurred, that he knew or had reason to know?

It strikes me they could argue such and that it constituted probable cause to believe that a crime was committed in stating otherwise on the MedExpress form. That is all they need, probable cause, to seize all arguably related property and arrest him.

Do I think either the FAA or a prosecutor would care enough to do that, certainly not normally. But if they had other reason to dislike him, or if it was part of a bigger sweep operation, who knows?

If you made a good faith attempt to track down the information, and came up empty, I don't see how you can report this even if you wanted to. In fact, reporting that you had ADHD when you are not sure that you did will be a false statement. There is no box in MedExpress for "I think I had this condition, but I am not sure".

 

[TommyG]

If it’s something you don’t remember, if it’s a bottle that can’t prove anything, it didn’t happen. Doctors are quick to diagnose kids with ADD or ADHD when their really is nothing there. If you haven’t been in a situation that you even have come close to behavior that you or someone has felt you needed to go seek treatment. I would seriously just walk away and move on.

 

[comanchepilot]

Once you know something you cannot unknow something - bein Rx'd drugs like this as a child and not continuing the medication as an adult should not [and likely will not] be disqualifying. The BEST solution [speaking as a lawyer and not as a doc] is to gather the information, have a consultation with an appropriately qualified AME, then do what they say. I had a somewhat skeptical reaction in another thread with a teenager being hospitalized for depression and taking prohibited medications. An 8-10 year old is one thing while a 14-16 year old is another. BUT - you STILL need to go down the evaluation line -

The FAA is going to start seeing this ALOT. There are likely millions of young adults who were given SSRI's to treat bedwetting and similar mild conditions - or were Rx'd a med and NEVER Dx'd an appropriate condition for medicating.

The more that this 'I was 8 and took meds for a year then stopped' is reported and wastes valuable bureaucrat time on worthless evaluations - cries out for regulatory exceptions to the 'Have you EVER language.' I predict that sooner or later the FAA WILL come out with an exception for those under 16 Rx'd a med involuntarily. If you're mature enough to solo an airplane you are mature enough to evaluate if a drug a doc wants you to take is appropriate for you. That makes sense - and it tracks current regs.

So - as Bruce and Peter note - if you are not depressed you're not depressed - and the neuropsych will show that - and the sawbones will properly draft a report showing you're not - and don't have a disqualifying mental condition - it goes to OKC and 6 months later its over. . . . Then you simply report: disclosed.

FAA needs to overhaul the system so they can issue you a code number [like a TSA trusted traveler deal] so you simply enter in a code box and you're exempted from continuing to report the same insanity twice a year for the rest of your life. . ..

 

[Lindberg]

There are likely millions of young adults who were given SSRI's to treat bedwetting and similar mild conditions - or were Rx'd a med and NEVER Dx'd an appropriate condition for medicating.

And here's the rub. Medxpress doesn't ask if "you have ever in your life" been Rx'd a med. It asks if "you have ever in your life" been diagnosed with or had certain conditions. The form only asks for current medications. So a medication you took ten years ago isn't even asked for. Some here will tell you that if you had drug x, y, or z, you must have been diagnosed with condition a, b, or c. But SGOTI (and we're all SGOTI) saying that doesn't make it so.

* * * *

Please, for the love of all things good and righteous, read the form, read the instructions, complete the questions accurately and completely to the best of your knowledge, and take the FAA at its word and don't volunteer more information than is necessary.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

The more that this 'I was 8 and took meds for a year then stopped' is reported and wastes valuable bureaucrat time on worthless evaluations - cries out for regulatory exceptions to the 'Have you EVER language.' I predict that sooner or later the FAA WILL come out with an exception for those under 16 Rx'd a med involuntarily.

Good points, however, I do not share the optimism regarding the FAA's response. Typically bureaucracies love to have an expanding domain and more and more work to do. It provides larger budgets and staffs and larger salaries for the managers. And thus larger pensions in retirement.

While they FAA tends to be on the more reasonable side as Federal bureaucracies go, they are still subject to all the wrong incentives.

 

[comanchepilot]

And here's the rub. Medxpress doesn't ask if "you have ever in your life" been Rx'd a med. It asks if "you have ever in your life" been diagnosed with or had certain conditions. The form only asks for current medications. So a medication you took ten years ago isn't even asked for. Some here will tell you that if you had drug x, y, or z, you must have been diagnosed with condition a, b, or c. But SGOTI (and we're all SGOTI) saying that doesn't make it so.

* * * *

Please, for the love of all things good and righteous, read the form, read the instructions, complete the questions accurately and completely to the best of your knowledge, and take the FAA at its word and don't volunteer more information than is necessary.

I agree - but in order to get paid most insurers require an ICD 9/10 code. So they MUST Dx you with something. There is a deep need to dx you with whatever - even if its 'depression not otherwise specified' or some unspecified mental disorder that means 'kid seems messed up, not a clue,' and then they Rx you a med that, in order to be paid by the insurer further requires a relevant Dx. This is usually how it goes - so you have bee Dx'd - wrongly or rightly. I just believe there needs to be some leeway on childhood diagnosis following you forever into adulthood. . . .

 

[Jeff Oslick]

I agree - but in order to get paid most insurers require an ICD 9/10 code. So they MUST Dx you with something. There is a deep need to dx you with whatever - even if its 'depression not otherwise specified' or some unspecified mental disorder that means 'kid seems messed up, not a clue,' and then they Rx you a med that, in order to be paid by the insurer further requires a relevant Dx. This is usually how it goes - so you have bee Dx'd - wrongly or rightly. I just believe there needs to be some leeway on childhood diagnosis following you forever into adulthood. . . .

It is only a matter of time before the FAA gets sued over its handling of mental health diagnoses. They pretend that only an FAA-accepted medical professional and expensive testing has the ability to override what virtually anyone reasonably would recognize as an incorrect childhood "diagnosis". There really needs to be a statute of limitations-type restriction on how these childhood diagnoses are applied. If you were medicated (basically by your parents) for a relatively short period of time, and led a treatment-free normal life for 5+ years, and be able to be signed off for solo by an instructor, that should be enough to prove basic mental health competency.

 

[Beaker’s Flyin]

I agree - but in order to get paid most insurers require an ICD 9/10 code. So they MUST Dx you with something. There is a deep need to dx you with whatever - even if its 'depression not otherwise specified' or some unspecified mental disorder that means 'kid seems messed up, not a clue,' and then they Rx you a med that, in order to be paid by the insurer further requires a relevant Dx. This is usually how it goes - so you have bee Dx'd - wrongly or rightly. I just believe there needs to be some leeway on childhood diagnosis following you forever into adulthood. . . .

Leeway should also be given while in adulthood. Seeing a doctor describing symptoms using terms like nervous, or anxious should not automatically indicate a mental health disorder. Some people have gone to their doctor and mentioned such terms, the doc nonchalantly raises their shoulders in an unsure gesture, and recommends a psych med. The uninformed patient agrees, and moves on with life none the wiser until they happen to look at their medical records and discover the dx provided to justify the medication they haphazardly tossed the patients way. It happens all the time, too often in fact and some are left having to pay thousands of dollars to fix it.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

I was listening to a podcast last night with a mental health expert about a non-aviation topic, and she was specifically discussing how DSM-V diagnosis codes are really only used for billing purposes, and that trying to use those Dx codes as the basis of treatment, or even to call things a "disorder" in many cases, is ridiculous.

 

[anon]

Just got off the phone with my AME who originally issued me and said that I shouldn't worry about something like this and just keep flying.

 

[Lindberg]

Just got off the phone with my AME who originally issued me and said that I shouldn't worry about something like this and just keep flying.

Are you the OP?

 

[Anon]

Title: I don't know what to do here. I've already received my first class and have begun applying to flight schools when I discovered a bottle of ADHD meds from 2008, when I would have been in elementary school, the name of the prescribing doctor is no longer legible (but it was probably my pediatrician at the time). I asked my parents about it and neither of them remembered for certain if I had a diagnoses, but we figured out that if I had a bottle I must have had a diagnoses at some point. My parents said that the school I was attending had a doctor that recommended medication because I was a rowdy student in class. My parents said that they didn't recall receiving any tests or anything. As far as I was aware I was just taking a pill every morning before I went to school, never on non-school days, they just said I had to take it to make me a better student and since I was a dumb kid at the time I didn't think anything of it. None of my parents have any ADHD test results in their files for me.

When I was filling out the medical it's not something that occurred to me, as I stopped taking the pills over a decade ago. I've been a good student since highschool and graduated university on time, never felt like I had anything like it. The advice I have heard from people I've spoken to about it is just to keep quiet and not go digging for things that can cause problems, if I can't prove I have anything neither can they. The other advice is to track down my scripts and take the battery before I renew my medical, and come with the proper documentation. really have no idea what to do here.

Literally the same thing happened to me. Just declare it on your next medical and they’ll make you go take the test. Do well and they’ll issue you a new medical. Research the requirements to hopefully take a couple months off the wait.