Oshkosh 2021 Notam - Airventure

tsts4 said:
...the best plan is to divert and wait it out on the ground the moment congestion/volume rises to the point holding or the far transition points come into play.
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Which is why the "Fond du Lac Bailout" (page 13 of the 2021 NOTAM) was instituted two years ago, (although to the best of my knowledge, it's yet to be used). When implemented by ATC due to OSH delays, arriving aircraft can divert to FLD, wait out the delay on the ground, then when things open up, they'll be first in line to land at OSH-- by being released first and allowed to fly direct from FLD to OSH (no need to fly the FISK procedure).

Since it's never been used before, who knows how smoothly it'll work. But I'm hoping it gets tested this year, giving those that opt to try it a relaxing ground delay, rather than wandering around in the muck at one of the airborne holding patterns with who-knows-how-many other airplanes.
 
flibmeister said:
Which is why the "Fond du Lac Bailout" (page 13 of the 2021 NOTAM) was instituted two years ago, (although to the best of my knowledge, it's yet to be used).
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I've seen it used once so far, Sunday evening arrival 2019. I was doing the warbird arrival in a T-28, overhead Fond du Lac headed to Warbird Island expecting the usual right base to 36. But, listening to the 36 tower guy, all I heard was GA types headed up the railroad tracks to land 36. No warbirds... hmm. Must be the bailout and recovery plan! So I tuned up the 27 tower and called Warbird Island inbound... "follow the DC-3, cleared to land 27"...
 
I flew in 2019. Tried to get there early in the morning, but so did everyone else. I tuned in to FISK when I was still a ways out. Sounded like a cluster-****, so I just throttled back as much as I could and waited it out that way. By the time I got there, there were still a few circling over the lake, but was easy to slot in the conga line heading to FISK without cutting anyone off. Was pretty easy, all things considering. Saved fuel, too.
 
Last few years the weather before the show has been atrocious and getting in has been really difficult and somewhat dangerous. If the weather trend continues I may have to strike OSH off my list. Hate to do it, but I"m seeing a trend. With any luck the trend will end and things will go back to normal Wisconsin summers. Then again, such tends have been sticking around of late. Only time will tell.
 
Schedule flexibility is your friend for oshkosh arrivals. Show up on Wednesday during the week and you’re not likely to have a problem.
 
I'm more or less assuming that at least half of the folks flying in either won't read the NOTAM (and therefore not know of the new procedure), or read the NOTAM and said f that, and just bomb into Ripon.

I've never driven out there to see the cluster... just might need to this year.
 
The first year I was at OSH, I got to see the arrival from both FISK and up into the OSH tower. It helped a lot the next year when I flew in myself. I usually arrive before the OSH rules now but I typically come and go giving rides and it depends on my passengers if I do RIPON-FISK or Warbird arrival coming back in.

I did get caught out once. Two of us flew up to 79C to take a shower a few years back (before the new shower trailers). There was an incident on 27 that really gummed up the arrivals coming back in and I knew we wouldn't get back in before the airshow. I tied down at Bennand and got someone to come retrieve us in a car.
 
tsts4 said:
Yes and no. Flying it is way easier— IFR separation and all. The downside is you have to reserve an arrival slot so it’s not as flexible. There are 4 slots per hour, you can’t reserve one any earlier than 72 hrs prior, and for KOSH itself they fill up fast. The NOTAM spells it all out.
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do you keep your slot even if VMC? I reserved a slot in 2019, but gave it up when the weather forecast improved. I landed on Saturday before the show about 20 minutes before they shut everything down and the storms rolled in.
 
Somedudeintn said:
do you keep your slot even if VMC? I reserved a slot in 2019, but gave it up when the weather forecast improved. I landed on Saturday before the show about 20 minutes before they shut everything down and the storms rolled in.
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I haven’t the last few years as the weather wasn’t great VFR upon our arrival. If it’s real nice I’ll probably cancel but I might not. We’ll just have to wait and see. Also bear in mind that I fly in the Friday (and no later than Saturday) before the show before the traffic volume reaches critical mass. So retaining the clearance isn't really much of an issue.
 
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I am planning for a Friday arrival again, before the main arrival weekend. Hopefully it won't be too busy then. Friday was quite OK in 2019. If that doesn't work, I'll plan to be over RIPON at 7:00AM.
The prospect of flying in 1/2 mile trail for 50NM at 90 knots isn't exactly making me feel good.

- Martin
 
Martin Pauly said:
I am planning for a Friday arrival again, before the main arrival weekend. Hopefully it won't be too busy then. Friday was quite OK in 2019. If that doesn't work, I'll plan to be over RIPON at 7:00AM.
The prospect of flying in 1/2 mile trail for 50NM at 90 knots isn't exactly making me feel good.

- Martin
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I’ve flown in on a Friday morning before the show and the controllers were very chatty, asking where I was from, what runway I preferred. Very laid back.
 
Martin Pauly said:
The prospect of flying in 1/2 mile trail for 50NM at 90 knots isn't exactly making me feel good.
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Be glad that I'm not going and you won't get stuck behind me. :)
And the 7:00 am thing? "Slower aircraft should use maximum cruising speed. ATC recommends arrival at Fisk 7:00-7:30 AM CDT if practicable."
 
Somedudeintn said:
do you keep your slot even if VMC? I reserved a slot in 2019, but gave it up when the weather forecast improved. I landed on Saturday before the show about 20 minutes before they shut everything down and the storms rolled in.
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Approach control will try to encourage you to cancel, but you're under no obligation to do so.

I came in IFR one year before the reservation system had turned on. We were just passing Milwaukee getting VFR flight following when I realized OSH was reporting IFR. It went something like this:

27K: Approach, it looks like Oshkosh is IFR. Can't I get a clearance from you or do I need to go the flight service to file.
MKE: (sigh... literally he sighed over the air, like "it's starting already") Are you rated and equipped.
27K: Affirmative.
MKE: OK, cleared direct Oshkosh, expect the VOR 9 approach.
27K: How about the RNAV 9?
MKE: OK, expect that.

It was pretty cool breaking out at 900' AGL over the show.

The only other time I arrived at Oshkosh IFR was when I was getting a trimotor ride and the field closed on us. I thought it was kind of weird that there were clouds below us. That was the end of the trimotor rides for the day.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
And the 7:00 am thing? "Slower aircraft should use maximum cruising speed. ATC recommends arrival at Fisk 7:00-7:30 AM CDT if practicable."
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And yet, the very early time of the day seems to work great for many people, as @painless wrote above and I have experienced in past years.

Maybe the very slow airplanes just cannot get there by 7:00 AM? :D

- Martin
 
Steve Costello said:
I'm more or less assuming that at least half of the folks flying in either won't read the NOTAM (and therefore not know of the new procedure), or read the NOTAM and said f that, and just bomb into Ripon.
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I'm assuming that most people won’t read the notam closely and realize the new transitions will be put on the atis as needed. Then I expect some people will get upset that others don’t use a transition that wasn’t required.
 
bflynn said:
I'm assuming that most people won’t read the notam closely and realize the new transitions will be put on the atis as needed. Then I expect some people will get upset that others don’t use a transition that wasn’t required.
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All safe assumptions :D
 
Martin Pauly said:
I am planning for a Friday arrival again, before the main arrival weekend. Hopefully it won't be too busy then. Friday was quite OK in 2019. If that doesn't work, I'll plan to be over RIPON at 7:00AM.
The prospect of flying in 1/2 mile trail for 50NM at 90 knots isn't exactly making me feel good.

- Martin
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When is the “big arrival”? I plan on flying in on Friday as well. I won’t be arriving until about 10 or 11ish.. bad idea?


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Indiana_Pilot said:
When is the “big arrival”? I plan on flying in on Friday as well. I won’t be arriving until about 10 or 11ish.. bad idea?


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No. The mass arrivals are Sat and Sun starting mid morning on Sat. Sun and Mon are traditionally the heaviest traffic days overall. Friday has usually been a good day to arrive but more and more people are starting to arrive early to beat the weekend rush.
 
What about later in the week? Could a guy show up on Wednesday? I assume the traffic would be less crazy, but you'd get parked in BFE?

I REALLY want to go, and it's a short flight from here, but it's hard to get away for more than a night or two.
 
You should be able to get in on Wed no problem. Parking is a crap shoot (you might get a spot closer vs further away) but the shuttle/tram system is pretty good (not perfect) IMO but be prepared to walk regardless. Of course if you're flying something Experimental or Vintage, your parking options improve.
 
Indiana_Pilot said:
When is the “big arrival”? I plan on flying in on Friday as well. I won’t be arriving until about 10 or 11ish.. bad idea?
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You'll be fine pretty much any time of day on Friday, as the traffic volume is typically still light (at least by Oshkosh standards). The most inbound traffic will be on Saturday and Sunday, prior to AirVenture opening the show on Monday morning. Personally, I try to avoid the weekend; I've arrived both on the Friday before, as well as later during the show week at 7:00AM, both with good results.

What will be interesting to see this year is if we again get a dicey weather forecast for the arrival weekend, like in 2019. That caused major disruptions in 2019, and should the forecast again look tricky for the weekend, I would not be surprised to see more people than before try to pull up their arrival to Friday, to avoid the mess.

- Martin
 
Martin Pauly said:
I am planning for a Friday arrival again, before the main arrival weekend. Hopefully it won't be too busy then. Friday was quite OK in 2019. If that doesn't work, I'll plan to be over RIPON at 7:00AM.
The prospect of flying in 1/2 mile trail for 50NM at 90 knots isn't exactly making me feel good.

- Martin
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Why not 2,300 feet at 135?
 
PaulS said:
Why not 2,300 feet at 135?
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I think that would defeat the purpose of the "2,300 at 135 knots" option; the NOTAM lists it for faster aircraft if needed for safety of flight. The more people go faster and higher, the bigger of a problem we create closer to Oshkosh when the two streams need to be merged.

- Martin
 
Martin Pauly said:
I think that would defeat the purpose of the "2,300 at 135 knots" option; the NOTAM lists it for faster aircraft if needed for safety of flight. The more people go faster and higher, the bigger of a problem we create closer to Oshkosh when the two streams need to be merged.

- Martin
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I suppose, I don't know the Bonanza, but if you are hanging off your prop and the guy in front of you slows down to 80 instead of the 90, it could get interesting in the turns, or maybe not.
 
A Bonanza is not hanging on the prop at 90 knots. It flies just fine there, it's 40 knots over the stall speed.
 
Is this where we tell everyone going to KOSH to practice their slow flight before going?
 
flyingron said:
A Bonanza is not hanging on the prop at 90 knots. It flies just fine there, it's 40 knots over the stall speed.
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C'mon man, you know that nothing in the GA fleet, save Cubs, C-15X's, and C-17X's can possibly stay in the air below 85 knots or thereabouts, and even then, they are full flaps hanging on the prop, with frightened pilots holding a death grip on the yolk <sic>.
 
denverpilot said:
Shhh. 1.8 Vs0 is terrifying! LOL
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My concern is more the deck angle obscuring the people who are at 700 feet and 70 knots in front of me. Advantage to the planes that can fly the arrival inverted at 90 KIAS.
 
iamtheari said:
My concern is more the deck angle obscuring the people who are at 700 feet and 70 knots in front of me. Advantage to the planes that can fly the arrival inverted at 90 KIAS.
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First notch of flaps solves this.
 
flyingron said:
A Bonanza is not hanging on the prop at 90 knots. It flies just fine there, it's 40 knots over the stall speed.
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denverpilot said:
Shhh. 1.8 Vs0 is terrifying! LOL
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Real funny guys, I don't know Bonanzas, I said that already and I was responding to this comment:
"The prospect of flying in 1/2 mile trail for 50NM at 90 knots isn't exactly making me feel good."

Which was followed by this one:.
"Maybe the very slow airplanes just cannot get there by 7:00 AM? :D"

It sounded like there is concern about getting too slow to me, which in the Cirrus 22 I fly is a valid concern. Now it sounds like 90 in a bo is not an issue, even if you get stuck behind someone not doing 90. No big deal.

I suggested flying higher at 135. Apparently there's a concern with that too.

I'm on the fence right now about flying in, if I do I'm leaning towards the 135 option, people a lot smarter than me developed these procedures, I'm pretty sure they've figured out how to merge faster and slower traffic.
 
IMO the Cirrus is plenty capable of flying at 90 kts (most single engine GA aircraft are) with adequate stall margin. If you aren't comfortable flying it at 90 that's a different issue and that's not why the high-fast pattern was developed. My worthless advice, get out and practice to include spot landings at the weight you think you'll be flying into OSH at. After a little bit of practice you'll be fine.
 
Look, 90 knots is a very difficult speed for me (my gear speed is only 87 and they also want the gear down), but I do it when flying the Ripon arrival.

It royally mucks things up for pilots who can't keep the speed. I was stuck behind a 182 once that decided to fly at 70 knots. I had to bail out of the approach and then came around and still caught up with him again before the runway.
 
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tsts4 said:
IMO the Cirrus is plenty capable of flying at 90 kts (most single engine GA aircraft are) with adequate stall margin. If you aren't comfortable flying it at 90 that's a different issue and that's not why the high-fast pattern was developed. My worthless advice, get out and practice to include spot landings at the weight you think you'll be flying into OSH at. After a little bit of practice you'll be fine.
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I'm not worried about it, I'll figure it out.
 
My last Oshkosh I wound up in a line of aircraft doing 80 mph. That's 13 mph above my clean stall speed, or at least what the book says. Didn't want to divert, I knew I wasn't going to get another chance, so I sucked it up.

Problem with going on a weekday is you have to get there before the field closes for the airshow. If you try and get in after the airshow it turns into pandemonium.
 
So, I'm going to Oshkosh, you all better stay out of my way.:D I talked this over with a pro instructor on Cirrus, he told me to pop in 50% flaps and fly it at 90 knots, he said if someone is flying it slower than that, pass them. He also said to be careful when they start turning you to land if ask you to "tighten up" the turn.

Should be fun.
 
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