What Constitutes Cross Country Time?

MBDiagMan

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I have always been under the impression that any flight that involved a landing over 50nM from the departure airport made the whole trip before returning home to be loggable as cross country. The straight line distance seemed to mean an airport landing somewhere in the sequence of the trip that was a straight line distance from home more than 50nM qualified the trip as cross county.

I was told today that it means that there must be a leg that is at least 50nM long.

What say you?
 
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It depends what you are using the time for. The choices are all in 61.1. Read it instead of "I was told.."

How you log the different types - if you do - is a bookkeeping question, not a regulatory one.
 
Cross-country time means -

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight -

(A) Conducted by a personwho holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
 
61.1
Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(iii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate (except for powered parachute privileges), time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(iv) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate with powered parachute privileges or a private pilot certificate with a powered parachute category rating, time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 15 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(v) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for any pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category rating or an instrument-helicopter rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges, in a rotorcraft, under §61.101(c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

(vii) For a military pilot who qualifies for a commercial pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating) under §61.73 of this part, time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.
I was told today that it means that there must be leg that is at least fifty named long.
“Got a reference for that?” is usually a good way to cull the ********.
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Cross-country time means -

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight -

(A) Conducted by a personwho holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
Is that all?!?!
I thought there was a mileage requirement!
 
I have always been under the impression that any flight that involved a landing over 50nM from the departure airport made the whole trip before returning home to be loggable as cross country. The straight line distance seemed to mean an airport landing somewhere in the sequence of the trip that was a straight line distance from home more than 50nM qualified the trip as cross county.

I was told today that it means that there must be a leg that is at least 50nM long.

What say you?

To answer what I think you are asking, ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
 
Yes Clip, in your item B it has always seemed to me to mean that somewhere in the trip you reach an airport that is more than 50 nM away from the airport of origin.

The person who confronted me about this yesterday contends that there must be a single leg of the trip that exceeds 50 nM.
 
The first airport of landing must be >50 nm from the point of departure. On some 3 leg XCs, the order of the landings makes the XC unusable for experience requirements.
 
The first airport of landing must be >50 nm from the point of departure. On some 3 leg XCs, the order of the landings makes the XC unusable for experience requirements.
No it does not, that is not what the reg you quoted says at all.
 
Seems like most pilots remember the aeronautical experience requirement of mileage vs the actual definition of XC. Mileage doesn’t necessarily come into play. If your not logging the time for an additional rating, then the definition applies and mileage isn’t required.
 
Is that all?!?!
I thought there was a mileage requirement!
The mileage requirement is only for getting an aeronautical rating. In airplanes it's 50 NM and helicopters it's 25 NM. Also some cross country time doesn't count if it doesn't meet the requirement of that ratings long cross country. There is no mileage requirement for the 500 hours of cross country need to be PIC in 135 operations. When I got my ATP in 1983 there was no distance requirement for cross country flights, that has since changed.
 
It does if you are training Part 141 and your training syllabus requires it and most do.

The 141 school misinterpreting FAR 61 does not change FAR 61. But yeah, if you the Student ya gotsta do their thing.
 
I have may hours flying to and from near by airports and I log it as cross country. Can I use the hours for an additional rating? No. Can I fill out my insurance application with those hours included? Yes!
 
I have may hours flying to and from near by airports and I log it as cross country. Can I use the hours for an additional rating? No. Can I fill out my insurance application with those hours included? Yes!

YES!!! I had been logging CC time for years based on all the 50 mile stuff from my student pilot pilot days. And then, thanks to POA and the continuing saga of logable time I saw the light. Thankyou POA.
 
Not a misinterpretation, just a higher standard.

Maybe. My guess is misinterpretation though. You can fly three legs, one of which is more than 50 miles. But do it without any of the airports being more than 50 miles from the home drone. I’m puttin my money down on they came up with ‘first’ leg gotta be more than 50 to keep this from happening. Not a whole lotta money though
 
It does if you are training Part 141 and your training syllabus requires it and most do.
It is impossible to prove a negative. I just perused the Part 141 training requirements and I cannot find where it mentions anything about a 50nm requirement. I see the same verbiage as Part 61. If Part 141 does not mention a specific requirement, it automatically reverts to Part 61 standards.

A particular 141 school may have their own requirements which would in fact be treated the same as an FAR, but the basic 141 rules have no such requirement. I welcome being proven wrong.
 
It is impossible to prove a negative. I just perused the Part 141 training requirements and I cannot find where it mentions anything about a 50nm requirement. I see the same verbiage as Part 61. If Part 141 does nor mention a specific requirement, it automatically reverts to Part 61 standards.

A particular 141 school may have their own requirements which would in fact be treated the same as an FAR, but the basic 141 rules have no such requirement. I welcome being proven wrong.

You will find no requirements in Part 61 for the 10 hours not specifically allocated to dual or solo either. How those hours are allocated is determined CFI/school.
 
Is that all?!?!
I thought there was a mileage requirement!
To repeat: it depends what you want to use the time for. Except for the "specialty" cross countries - the "long" private and commercial cross countries - it is all listed in one place. Very convenient if one merely reads it.
 
Maybe. My guess is misinterpretation though. You can fly three legs, one of which is more than 50 miles. But do it without any of the airports being more than 50 miles from the home drone. I’m puttin my money down on they came up with ‘first’ leg gotta be more than 50 to keep this from happening. Not a whole lotta money though
Yeah, there's the game of of:

Start at airport A, fly west 25 NM to airport B.
Decide to establish airport B as your origin airport for the XC flight.
Fly east 50.1 NM (overfly airport A) to airport C.
Fly west from airport C back to airport A.

Done. You have a flight from B to C that is >50NM, but you never got farther away than 25.1 NM from you home airport A.

Probably will have a hard time justifying this later, though.
 
Yes Clip, in your item B it has always seemed to me to mean that somewhere in the trip you reach an airport that is more than 50 nM away from the airport of origin.

The person who confronted me about this yesterday contends that there must be a single leg of the trip that exceeds 50 nM.
You are correct. The person who confronted you is wrong. The FAA is quite capable of specifying a leg length. If I recall correctly, at one time the commercial cross country required one leg if the flight to be at least 50 nm long.
 
When Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager completed their non-stop round the world flight in the Rutan Voyager in 1986, it was technically not a cross-country flight since the took off and landed at the same airport.
 
When Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager completed their non-stop round the world flight in the Rutan Voyager in 1986, it was technically not a cross-country flight since the took off and landed at the same airport.
Would be usable for their ATP :D

hmmm... but if they switched being on the controls, it might not have been usable at all!
 
When Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager completed their non-stop round the world flight in the Rutan Voyager in 1986, it was technically not a cross-country flight since the took off and landed at the same airport.

That’s yet another myth.
 
Uh Oh. Now we gonna get into how do you Log time when you are asleep:D
That would be bunkie time, but then the question could become is it primary bunkie or secondary bunkie if there is more than one…
 
There are three types of X/C time that covers 90% of anything most pilots will ever do.

Basic X/C: Any A to B.
Training for a Certificate or Rating: 50NM A to B
Training for ATP Certificate: 50NM straight line distance.

Now you have the odd ones like Sport Pilot, Hawaii, 135, etc...

I keep two columns for X/C time. One for all x/c and one for 50NM x/c. Now if y’all really want to stir the pot then explain how I used SIC time for my MEI 15 PIC time requirement.
 
There are three types of X/C time that covers 90% of anything most pilots will ever do.

Basic X/C: Any A to B.
Training for a Certificate or Rating: 50NM A to B
Training for ATP Certificate: 50NM straight line distance.

Now you have the odd ones like Sport Pilot, Hawaii, 135, etc...

I keep two columns for X/C time. One for all x/c and one for 50NM x/c. Now if y’all really want to stir the pot then explain how I used SIC time for my MEI 15 PIC time requirement.

I only log >50XC as XC. But like 80% of my hours are straight line >50 XC. There's 0 reason for me to log a 5nm flight as XC.
 
The FAA is very lenient in defining "flight." So yes you can consider a bunch of legs as one flight or you can break them up into any permutation of flights. So why A...B...C...A isn't a cross country, you could break it up into multiples that could be. As ARFlyer aludes, whether "CrossCountry" counts for the rating you're after depends no the little subcategories in the 61.1 definition for the certificate/rating you're after.
 
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