Shut off transponder......

Piper18O

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Piper18O
My memory may be bad but it seems to me that if you go past the 2 year transponder check, you can still legally fly but you have to shut off the transponder. Is that correct?
 
As long as you're flying in airspace that doesn't require a transponder you should be good to go. Unless it's ADSB equipped, in which case shutting it off risks getting your certificate revoked...
 
As long as you're flying in airspace that doesn't require a transponder you should be good to go. Unless it's ADSB equipped, in which case shutting it off risks getting your certificate revoked...

Yes, that is what I was referring to. I thought you used to have to shut the transponder off, but now, you can't shut it off if it is adsb equipped, even though the transponder check is past the 24 month check.
 
Yes, that is what I was referring to. I thought you used to have to shut the transponder off, but now, you can't shut it off if it is adsb equipped, even though the transponder check is past the 24 month check.
You can't shut it off, and you can't leave it on.
 
you can still legally fly but you have to shut off the transponder. Is that correct?
From strictly an FAR equipment perspective, in order to fly with an unserviceable/inoperative part it needs to be placarded and disabled per 91.213 to be legal. If your 91.411 checks are also past due then your flight can only be VFR. If your ADS-B relies on your xspndr to function properly then technically you would need to placard the ADS-B as well to remain under the existing guidance. To fly through xspndr/ADS-B required airspace you would need an ATC exemption for the xspndr and make an ADAPT request for the ADS-B deviation.... at least that is how it was explained to me the last time I inquired with the powers to be.
 
91.215:

d) ATC authorized deviations. Requests for ATC authorized deviations must be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace within the time periods specified as follows:

(1) For operation of an aircraft with an operating transponder but without operating automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability, the request may be made at any time.

(2) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request may be made at any time.

91.225:

(g) Requests for ATC authorized deviations from the requirements of this section must be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace within the time periods specified as follows:

(1) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative ADS-B Out, to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request may be made at any time.

ADS-B deviation tool:

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/adapt/
 
My Transponder certification expired once and my home airport is under Class B airspace with no shop that can do the certification. I got a ferry permit from the FAA which permitted me to fly to a shop that could do the certification. I left the transponder on during the flight. If you wanted to turn the transponder off during the flight, you would need to notify ATC an hour or so before the flight. It was not that difficult to do.
 
From strictly an FAR equipment perspective, in order to fly with an unserviceable/inoperative part it needs to be placarded and disabled per 91.213 to be legal. If your 91.411 checks are also past due then your flight can only be VFR. If your ADS-B relies on your xspndr to function properly then technically you would need to placard the ADS-B as well to remain under the existing guidance. To fly through xspndr/ADS-B required airspace you would need an ATC exemption for the xspndr and make an ADAPT request for the ADS-B deviation.... at least that is how it was explained to me the last time I inquired with the powers to be.

91.413 is pertinent here. It refers to 91.215 a. That’s all airspace and doesn’t differentiate between VFR and IFR. They don’t want you to be potentially broadcasting erroneous info, anywhere, anytime.
 
My Transponder certification expired once and my home airport is under Class B airspace with no shop that can do the certification. I got a ferry permit from the FAA which permitted me to fly to a shop that could do the certification. I left the transponder on during the flight. If you wanted to turn the transponder off during the flight, you would need to notify ATC an hour or so before the flight. It was not that difficult to do.

Why couldn't your mechanic break out the allen wrench, pull the transponder, and log the change? That's a 2 minute job.
 
Why couldn't your mechanic break out the allen wrench, pull the transponder, and log the change? That's a 2 minute job.
I do the IFR check with the Transponder check and the plane has to be at the shop for them to do the tests. They compare encoder readings with the altimeter readings. Can't do that with just the transponder.
 
I do the IFR check with the Transponder check and the plane has to be at the shop for them to do the tests. They compare encoder readings with the altimeter readings. Can't do that with just the transponder.

The idea is for your mechanic to remove the Txp and make the log note, making the aircraft legal to fly (I think).

Then, you fly it to the avionics shop (assuming it is outside of Txp required airspace), reinstall the TXP, and have the shop do the transponder/static check.
 
91.413 is pertinent here. It refers to 91.215 a. That’s all airspace and doesn’t differentiate between VFR and IFR. They don’t want you to be potentially broadcasting erroneous info, anywhere, anytime.
Don't quite follow your point as it applies to the OP. And my reference to VFR was only to 91.411 not 413. But as to removing the xspndr when the ferry permit handled the flight, why go through the added work? If your intent was to beat the 215 requirement you forgot to remove the encoder as well. Or perhaps I'm missing something here?
 
Don't quite follow your point as it applies to the OP. And my reference to VFR was only to 91.411 not 413. But as to removing the xspndr when the ferry permit handled the flight, why go through the added work? If your intent was to beat the 215 requirement you forgot to remove the encoder as well. Or perhaps I'm missing something here?

I reread the OP. He did make the distinction between turning off and removing. From your post I was replying in particular to “... If your 91.411 checks are also past due then your flight can only be VFR...”. 91.411 is about the static pressure system. Altimeters. It relates to transponders via Mode C encoding altimeters. 91.413 makes no distinction between VFR and IFR. I should have been clearer the point I was making. My bad.
 
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The idea is for your mechanic to remove the Txp and make the log note, making the aircraft legal to fly (I think).

Then, you fly it to the avionics shop (assuming it is outside of Txp required airspace), reinstall the TXP, and have the shop do the transponder/static check.
The ferry permit made it legal to fly. Flying the plane out of the DC-SFRA with no transponder and no encoder is possible with advance notice and approval from ATC, but makes it more difficult than my solution.
 
Just bought a Cherokee with a functional transponder but no ADS-b. Was debating on replacing the transponder and adding adsb at the same time( plane has no WAAS currently.) Home base is just barely inside mode c. Should I order up a tail beacon before we fly it home or make an ADAPT request? And weigh options later?
 
Adding a tailbeacon seems like just doing the least possible to meet the lowest bar. ADBS in is when you get the benefits of the expense.
 
Adding a tailbeacon seems like just doing the least possible to meet the lowest bar. ADBS in is when you get the benefits of the expense.
Already have in with a stratus and ipad on another plane. Can't fly both at once.
 
The ferry permit made it legal to fly. Flying the plane out of the DC-SFRA with no transponder and no encoder is possible with advance notice and approval from ATC, but makes it more difficult than my solution.

Sorry, I completely whiffed on the fact that you're located in the SFRA. That's a game changer.
 
Why couldn't your mechanic break out the allen wrench, pull the transponder, and log the change? That's a 2 minute job.
I did this exact thing and dutifully made a log book entry that the local SL FSDO used to suspend my A&P. They even made up a word to violate me with. Reinstalling the transponder is a violation according to the SL FSDO. If you disconnect the connections to remove it is no longer in compliance. You may get away with it in a reasonable FSDO area, just don't try it in Utah.
 
Mine scenario is different, but I still turn off my transponder when shooting air-to-air. Local controllers told me it drives them crazy when I don't, even when I'm out of their airspace. I guess I'm breaking the law, but for a good cause!
 
Seems to me if the transponder is past its check date, it's by definition inoperable and must be shut off and placarded. But if ADS-B equipped you can't turn the ADS-B off. What is the legal definition of "equipped"? One would think that "equipped with ADS-B" implies "equipped with an operable ADS-B". If so and the transponder it relies on is shut off then the ADS-B is also inoperable and must be placarded as such, and as the aircraft isn't then equipped with an operable ADS-B, it's legal to fly with it turned off (if not in airspace requiring it).
 
Why not just do a transponder check with ATC? If they’re happy, you’d be good to go. Just get the transponder sign off when you can. I know, I’m often accused of simplifying things.
 
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