TBM AvengerWarbird Ditches Off The Beach During Cocoa Air Show - Video

Why? Warbirds have been rebuilt from a lot less. And this one was apparently just 2 years since back to flying status after a major rebuild.

A rebuild that took 18 years.

Here is the challenge: insurance value.

A TBM is not a multi-million dollar warbird. I don’t think I’ve seen a TBM sell for more than $500k.

I have zero clue what VAC insured the hull for, but I’d be surprised if it isn’t totaled by the insurance company. Then the disposition of the airframe is up in the air. I doubt anyone really knows what will happen to the airplane yet.
 
I have zero clue what VAC insured the hull for, but I’d be surprised if it isn’t totaled by the insurance company. Then the disposition of the airframe is up in the air. I doubt anyone really knows what will happen to the airplane yet.

The initial problem may be that the airplane sits somewhere for a week or a few months waiting on insurance to "make the call". The longer it goes without a thorough spray-down to remove as much salt as possible, the worse things will be. Anywhere there is a scratch in the paint, corrosion is gonna start.
 
The initial problem may be that the airplane sits somewhere for a week or a few months waiting on insurance to "make the call". The longer it goes without a thorough spray-down to remove as much salt as possible, the worse things will be. Anywhere there is a scratch in the paint, corrosion is gonna start.

Good point. When the Stratoliner ditched, Boeing had 70 volunteers stuffing every crevice with absorbent material to get the moisture out as soon as they lifted it from the water.
 
Good point. When the Stratoliner ditched, Boeing had 70 volunteers stuffing every crevice with absorbent material to get the moisture out as soon as they lifted it from the water.

And isn't "The Sound" brackish water, not salt water? That helped in some incremental way.
 
Most of the sound is 28ish ppt salinity. Open ocean water is roughly 35 ppt. I doubt that helped any.

salty,
who is salty
 
Most of the sound is 28ish ppt salinity. Open ocean water is roughly 35 ppt. I doubt that helped any.

salty,
who is salty

Thanks. I had a notion that it was substantially less salty than the ocean.
 
Thanks. I had a notion that it was substantially less salty than the ocean.
I'm no corrosion expert, but considering air near the water can cause corrosion, I think even slightly brackish water is going to do a number on a plane pretty quickly.
 
I'm no corrosion expert, but considering air near the water can cause corrosion, I think even slightly brackish water is going to do a number on a plane pretty quickly.

Geez, you folks leave me with the impression the whole plane is going to crumble to dust within hours just because it was partially dunked.

If that was the case there wouldn't be aluminum hulled boats that still float and there wouldn't planes with aluminum airframes and aluminum floats flying for years on the west coast where I grew up (yes, there's still a bunch of ancient de Havilland Beavers on floats with radial engines plying their trade between the islands out there -- they haven't all been converted to turbines yet). So how do they survive all those decades in air taxi service with all that salt spray coating the airframe every take off.

The key to aluminum's longevity is the stable oxide coating it forms. The volume of the material produced when aluminum oxidizes is the same as the volume of the metal consumed, which is why the oxide layer is stable. Unlike iron or steel, which produces an oxide that has a higher volume and therefore continuously spalls off the surface, thus revealing fresh metal to be oxidized (rust).

Salts will attack the aluminum oxide layer resulting in pits and a white powder material. But that does not happen instantly on contact.

In fact the steel parts in the airplane, if not protected with coatings, are probably more vulnerable.

Nobody knows what primers or coating protections the folks that rebuilt this plane might have used when they so carefully put it back together over 18 years (that HAD to be volunteer effort, not some commercial warbird rebuild shop). We can maybe hope they floated it reasonably quickly, got it to a marina or some place where it could be hosed down with fresh water.

I'm sure we will find out in due course.
 
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[investigation]
FAA: What happened?
Pilot: Prop over speed, lost power, had to ditch.
FAA: Anybody hurt?
Pilot: I’m a little put out that my flight suit got wet...Some of these patches are gonna shrink.
FAA: OK...Let us know if anything unforeseen turns up.
Pilot: Wilco.
[/Investigation]

Why did the engine fail/run rough
Why did they ditch within 50ft of people
What was the maintenance regime

I've seen an accident hushed up.
Why would you want to evade an investigation
 
Tend to agree. Everything electrical is toast, the airframe will have been beaten up by the ditching and recovery, and the salt water has introduced a corrosion problem that can <probably> only be resolved through either an extended dunking in fresh water or by serious disassembly. TBM's aren't a dime a dozen, but they are a relatively common and lower valued warbird, so there's probably a better airframe out there to restore at this point.

"Everything electrical is toast"?

Why would that be? It might require some effort, but rinsing the harnesses, switches, and such with clean water and an inhibitor like SaltAway will stop corrosion until further restoration can take place. Perhaps you were referring to electronics, like radios. Yeah, they might be unrepairable.

I'd bet the entire airframe was painted inside and out with zinc chromate primer. A few repeated washings with clean water and the inhibitor will suffice to protect the aircraft from the effects of this ditching for years to come.

As for insurance, hull loss, and value considerations, someone has already spent many times the aircraft's ACV on its restoration, and if the motivation is there, I'm sure the money is too. It's also doubtful there's "a better airframe out there" to restore. If a saltwater dunking is the death sentence some have declared, there would be a lot fewer Grumman and De Havilland birds still flying 75 years after their first stint in oceanic waters.
 
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Why did the engine fail/run rough
We’ll let you know when we find out.
Why did they ditch within 50ft of people
Apparently the show line wasn’t maintained.
What was the maintenance regime
Same as it was when you looked at the logbooks before the show.

I've seen an accident hushed up.
Why would you want to evade an investigation
Salt water damage aside, this was probably an incident not an accident. What little is probably left of the investigation at this point wouldn’t prevent the airplane from flying again next week if it was otherwise possible.
 
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FYI: aircraft immersion in saltwater is not an automatic write off. There are many variables involved to determine what path to follow. One thing in its favor is that it did recently come out of an extensive refurbishment vs having original paint, etc. And given it is a very unique airframe that only adds to the variables. As to the immediate effects of saltwater it depends. Have recovered/repaired a number of aircraft from the clutches of the GOM and surrounding marshes that didn't have no noticeable after effects. Plus there are established post-immersion processes that have been around for years and are routinely used by the NTSB, insurers, operators, etc. to deal with an aircraft shortly after an incident like this. But if it sits on the bottom for a week or 2 all bets are off. Now most magnesium alloys and some electronics depending if power is applied will be scrapped after a saltwater bath but that also depends on the specific event. I think the structural damage from the water landing will play more into the decision making than the saltwater issues. Water landings have been know to cause more complex damage paths.
 
We are a spectator society these days. Many find it better to watch and take pictures than to actually do anything.
The Roy Halladay crash comes comes to mind. People filming and saying expletives instead of seeing if they can get to the guy that could potentially be saved.
 
"Everything electrical is toast"?

Why would that be? It might require some effort, but rinsing the harnesses, switches, and such with clean water and an inhibitor like SaltAway will stop corrosion until further restoration can take place. Perhaps you were referring to electronics, like radios. Yeah, they might be unrepairable.

I'd bet the entire airframe was painted inside and out with zinc chromate primer. A few repeated washings with clean water and the inhibitor will suffice to protect the aircraft from the effects of this ditching for years to come.

Harnesses are toast due to being unsealed against water intrusion. Get a connector wet and depending orientation, that moisture can wick from inches to feet up the wire within the insulation. I’ve pulled harnesses apart that show corrosion several feet from connectors and there was no visible penetration of the insulation.

I’ve saved very high dollar broadcast equipment that got dunked in salt water and was only submerged for less than a minute. Despite being flood washed with fresh water within an hour and being rinsed and submerged alternately for the next 24 hours, you could see the corrosion popping up on boards and connectors when we tore it down in our shop 36 hours later.
 
I'm no corrosion expert, but considering air near the water can cause corrosion, I think even slightly brackish water is going to do a number on a plane pretty quickly.

Navy airplanes were built to be exposed to salt air - this from a mechanic I know who used to maintain TBMs. But being in the water is going to be an issue if they don't get it up soon and quickly cleaned.
 
Navy airplanes were built to be exposed to salt air - this from a mechanic I know who used to maintain TBMs. But being in the water is going to be an issue if they don't get it up soon and quickly cleaned.

They got it out of the ocean by wrapping a strap around the rear fuselage and dragging it across the beach. In the process, they tore up the aft fuselage pretty badly. Sometimes you have to destroy the airplane to save the airplane...
 
They got it out of the ocean by wrapping a strap around the rear fuselage and dragging it across the beach. In the process, they tore up the aft fuselage pretty badly. Sometimes you have to destroy the airplane to save the airplane...
Happened about six years ago, when they were filming a PBY for that Nick Cage movie about the Indianapolis. Left it moored overnight in shallow water, plane sank. They used a crane to try to hoist it out, and it got all torn up.
upload_2021-4-20_7-38-16.png
Ron Wanttaja
 
Unfortunately, aircraft aren't engineered to be lifted, dragged, moved while full of water. The load paths are all wrong. But it can be done with the right techniques and with minimal damage.
 
The sad thing is all of these aircraft came equipped with lifting lugs and hard points. That's how they hoisted them from docks to the aircraft carriers - even PBY's were transported that way. Maybe the local authorities jumped in to prevent fuel/oil spills and accelerated the recovery process to the point where a controlled (low damage) recovery wasn't possible.

In any case, using cargo straps around the fuselage to drag the airplane up the beach did a lot of damage.
 
Unfortunately, aircraft aren't engineered to be lifted, dragged, moved while full of water. The load paths are all wrong. But it can be done with the right techniques and with minimal damage.

Why not lift it a few inches, let it drain, lather, rinse, repeat?
 
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Looking at the video of her being drug onto the beach, first glance is that there was minimal damage to the aft fuselage. What damaged there is, appears to be due to the need to turn the aircraft 90 degrees prior to winching onshore. Video shows that the lifting tube ahead of the tail and the wing hoist points were used as the attachments for the towing bridle.

Kyle: That process works when you have a recovery crew that understands that and is willing to take the time to do it right.
 
Why not lift it a few inches, let it drain, lather, rinse, repeat?
That's one method. Another is to use salvage bags and place along normal load paths using the water buoyancy to your advantage while you dewater it. But in this case it looks like there was a rush to do something. Perhaps there were a bunch of PoA'rs on the beach who were yelling to get it out of the water before it dissolved.
 
They got it out of the ocean by wrapping a strap around the rear fuselage and dragging it across the beach. In the process, they tore up the aft fuselage pretty badly. Sometimes you have to destroy the airplane to save the airplane...
Well you really don't have to destroy it to save it. Knowing the proper salvage procedure is the key. They obviously did not take the time to find what that was...:(
 
Part of the recovery. Damaged to the aft fuselage is relatively minor.

 
Well you really don't have to destroy it to save it. Knowing the proper salvage procedure is the key. They obviously did not take the time to find what that was...:(
Maybe that wasn't an option. Airplane in the water at a popular beach. Possible gasoline and oil leak. I can see the state, county or city giving them a time limit to get it out.
 
Good update on this accident, including the recovery:
Ron Wanttaja
 
Juan Browne said they wanted to float it to the intercoastal and pull it out there, the Coast Guard told them no, it had to come out where it was.

 
I just found out this was Terry Rush, he used to fly Tom Duffy's war birds out of Millville NJ. Terry gave the North East Flyers a guided tour of all the aircraft back in March 2008.
I guess lighting can strike twice. Terry was also the pilot of the TBM that caught fire in flight and made an emergency landing back at Millville KMIV.

March 2009
A vintage TBM Avenger that caught fire while it was in the air safely landed Saturday afternoon at the Millville airport. DRBA Spokesman Jim Salmon says the pilot, Terry Rush, of Cherry Hill, suffered burns in the incident. He was airlifted to the Cooper Health Systems in Camden, then taken to the Chester Crozier Burn Center in Pennsylvania. Rush remains listed in critical, but stable condition. The fire started on board the vintage plane around 4:30pm on Saturday afternoon. When Rush landed the plane, it burst into flames and was destroyed. Rush was the only person involved in the accident and no one else was hurt on the ground as a result.

http://www.nj.com/south/index.ssf/20...nto_flame.html
tbm2.JPG
 
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