Cherokee 140 annual

jmarine225

jmarine225

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jmarine225
My aircraft is currently in annual for the first time since I bought it. Curious how much time it should take for an annual to be completed, meaning finding all the discrepancies, if any. It’s being completed at an fbo so I’m guessing it would be rather quickly? Curious how long til I get my plane back.
 
Definitely can vary widely.

It also depends on what you call the "annual"... the annual inspection itself is not particularly involved. All the other things done "while you are at it" creates cthe variation.

One ownder-assisted "annual" on my 140 was completed within 24 hours (from engine start to go around the pattern to warm the oil, to completing the paperwork the next day, including the check for the IA). Another "annual" was measured in months (engine rebuild, etc).
 
As Bob said, for a PA28 the inspection part goes quickly. 1-3 days seems about right. But for repairs... put away the stopwatch and get out the calendar.

This year my annual "started" with the starter being sent out for overhaul. 3 weeks quoted, 4 weeks actual. Then when that was reinstalled the engine was started and a carbonater leak was found... two more weeks to overhaul thar.
 
The actual annual inspection on my Cherokee 160 and Cherokee 180 never took more than one day in the shop. The little bit of work to open inspection panels and such was usually done by me the day before.

They are simple, durable airplanes and back then there weren't many ADs on them. Lubricating and greasing everything was probably the biggest time consumer.

Repairs and upgrades? Rarely more than another day, except when I added a new radio, audio panel and transponder to the 160. But that's not really anything to do with the annual inspection.
 
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The annual for the Archer this year was about two weeks.
 
An annual at a big shop will probably take a solid week or two as they probably want work on it full time. 2-3 days at a private mechanic. If there are any fixes the time will stretch out big time. They will likely have to order the part, then fit you back into the rotation for repair.
 
Most of my annuals for my Bellanca Super Viking typically have been about one week. My last one took eight months. It all depends on what discrepancies are found and how long it takes to resolve. I’m taking my plane in for annual today, and I’m really hoping that it will be the one week variety.

As a new owner, it also depends on how well your plane was maintained previously. Did the previous owner and their mechanic allow some things to slide? How many squawk items need to be resolved from the prebuy inspection?
 
Ravioli said:
Then when that was reinstalled the engine was started and a carbonater leak was found... two more weeks to overhaul thar.
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Yeah it’s a real bummer those carbonator leaks. Not being able to make one’s own custom carbonated beverages in flight is just so ... uncivilized.

Don’t ya just love autocorrect!

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Add the new AD 2020-24-05 into the equation. If repairs are needed add a month...:(
 
AKBill said:
Add the new AD 2020-24-05 into the equation. If repairs are needed add a month...:(
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IF one can find the kit, two hours each side and that was by a sort of experienced sheet metal guy - me.

As was said, the annual inspection takes as long as the IA takes to look it over, note discrepancies and do the AD search and the paperwork for the logs and is usually a fixed price based on the airframe. What takes the most time and money is fixing those discrepancies, if any, and the time it takes to obtain the replacement parts and the labor involved to replace them. And also the time it takes for the paperwork for the logs.
 
Me and two other guys did the annual on my Cherokee in a day. There really isn't all that much to them. Fewer parts than my motorcycle.
 
Owner assisted, fastest was one day. Needed to change one tire, and few other small nits. Rest was just the actual inspection. I don't delay most maintenance, so no surprise items to add to the time.
 
jmarine225 said:
My aircraft is currently in annual for the first time since I bought it. Curious how much time it should take for an annual to be completed, meaning finding all the discrepancies, if any. It’s being completed at an fbo so I’m guessing it would be rather quickly? Curious how long til I get my plane back.
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The inspection itself should take only a few days, depending on how busy the shop is. The follow-up maintenance and waiting for parts, OTOH, can take from a few days to a few months, depending on what the inspection uncovers.
 
@jmarine225 as a new plane owner... you are only required to pay for the inspection, and any maintenance, necessary or recommended or desired repairs can be performed by other mechanics.

Helpful to know you are not stranded for maintenance with the shop who performed the inspection, should you feel the need for 2nd opinions.

The IA is then required to provide a list of deficiencies for remedy. An A&P can provide the repairs in most cases.

Most shops are reasonable, but you have some power to prevent being hijacked.
 
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If the owner is willing to do all the grunt work, like opening up all the inspection ports, washing the crud off of the engine, pumping up the tires, and such, any mechanic worth his salt can do the "annual inspection" on an airplane this simple in 8 hours, max for the first one and then 4 hours max for all subsequent annuals. That includes 2 hours of bookwork at home researching the ADs, going over the logbooks from day one for obvious math mistakes, and the like. Then looking the airplane over (that's an INSPECTION, folks).

And I include all the stuff I have to show and tell the aircraft owner all the stuff I had to show the owner the first year (and probably show again the second year).

Now, my car mechanic is getting $120 an hour for his work, including amortizing all the rent, county business licenses, and all that crap. I will not do your airplane if it is not in a hangar. And the county prohibits me from doing work on the airport as a business. So we go to McDonald's after the inspection and I sign the logs over a hamburger. That's what I'm getting paid for, that signature. So I can do annuals for $200, and so what at $50 an hour? I'm keeping GA aircraft in the air without an unnecessary burden on the owner. Who probably has more kids at home than I do.

We have proved SEVERAL TIMES OVER that opening up each and every inspection hole does more harm to the airplane than anything we find inside. Engine compression? Not a problem to do every year? 2 years, 5 years? Pick a number. Or every 200 hours? PIck a number.

But the FAA is stuck back in the 1930s when aircraft with neglected maintenance were falling out of the sky. It would be REALLY nice for the aviation community if some congress-critter does something for the light aircraft community like Basic Med did for the average pilot.

Just my 8% of two bits worth.

Jim
 
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jim73CQ said:
But the FAA is stuck back in the 1930s when aircraft with neglected maintenance were falling out of the sky.
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FYI: you don't need to go back to the 30s, only to the late 40s when the US became a signatory to ICAO. As part of the ICAO commitment, as well as a number of aviation bilateral agreements since then, the US must follow certain basic airworthiness requirements to allow N reg aircraft the ability to be exported or operated in other ICAO countries with minimal restrictions. And while any ICAO member can develop any national aviation policy they want, like the FAA Public Aircraft or TCCA Owner Mantained category, the down side is those specific aircraft are restricted to ops in their native country and can not be exported to other ICAO countries as they do not meet the basic ICAO airworthiness requirements. Changing the 12 month/Annual requirements would create a similar issue as Public Aircraft from the ICAO/bilateral treaty perspective. So it's not just an FAA issue.
 
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It’s easy to understand the argument of why Pilot/owners don’t like the annual inspection requirement.

I’m one of those guys who meticulously maintains his airplane, and every year I am surprised by something that comes up in the annual inspection I wasn’t aware of. Some small and some big.

Seems I always go in to the annual saying to myself “the airplane flies great and I have no known squawks, yikes this is time and money better spent elsewhere”. Then the IA finds something which was not known and must be addressed and my attitude changes towards seeing the wisdom in these inspections - as much as I’m grinding my teeth at needing to fix something previously not known.

Generalization: personal experience and small sample size of the various airports I’ve been stationed at… The people who complain most about annual inspections are typically those with the least maintained aircraft on the field.

Putting on my nomex flame retardant underwear. Next 5 posts are guys with planes that have never had a issue discovered in the last 10 annuals.
 
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NordicDave said:
I...

Putting on my nomex flame retardant underwear. Next 5 posts are guys with planes that have never had a issue discovered in the last 10 annuals.
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Just posting to prove you wrong... :)

The quickest annual I had (less than 24 hours) included a replacement of an exhaust pipe, which I wasn't expecting.
 
In general, the most poorly managed businesses I've come across are airplane shops. They seem to stop the work when they run into an issue, and order a part, and repeat that process. We figured on two weeks, which was probably below average over 15 years of ownership.
 
jim73CQ said:
If the owner is willing to do all the grunt work, like opening up all the inspection ports, washing the crud off of the engine, pumping up the tires, and such, any mechanic worth his salt can do the "annual inspection" on an airplane this simple in 8 hours, max for the first one and then 4 hours max for all subsequent annuals. That includes 2 hours of bookwork at home researching the ADs, going over the logbooks from day one for obvious math mistakes, and the like. Then looking the airplane over (that's an INSPECTION, folks).

And I include all the stuff I have to show and tell the aircraft owner all the stuff I had to show the owner the first year (and probably show again the second year).

Now, my car mechanic is getting $120 an hour for his work, including amortizing all the rent, county business licenses, and all that crap. I will not do your airplane if it is not in a hangar. And the county prohibits me from doing work on the airport as a business. So we go to McDonald's after the inspection and I sign the logs over a hamburger. That's what I'm getting paid for, that signature. So I can do annuals for $200, and so what at $50 an hour? I'm keeping GA aircraft in the air without an unnecessary burden on the owner. Who probably has more kids at home than I do.

We have proved SEVERAL TIMES OVER that opening up each and every inspection hole does more harm to the airplane than anything we find inside. Engine compression? Not a problem to do every year? 2 years, 5 years? Pick a number. Or every 200 hours? PIck a number.

But the FAA is stuck back in the 1930s when aircraft with neglected maintenance were falling out of the sky. It would be REALLY nice for the aviation community if some congress-critter does something for the light aircraft community like Basic Med did for the average pilot.

Just my 8% of two bits worth.

Jim
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A plausible explanation of the $200 annual. I still call baloney, but at least it sort of sounds good to owners who want the cheapest possible. No servicing, no repairs.

Throw in some fries and I'll do up the altimeter and transponder recerts too! :p
 
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