Mooney M20M Bravo

Hey all! How are you?

I'm quite new in the flying community, got my PPL in 12/2020.

I'm starting to look for airplanes to by, looking for a good XC plane. Basically being able to get 700nm range with a descent speed.

I was looking at a range of planes, such as Piper Arrow, Saratoga, Cessna 210, etc.

Then I came acroos Mooney M20M Bravo and now I'm confused. They are relatively cheap compared with Saratoga's or 210's, they are faster, and they consume less fuel (15GPH @ 75% cruise!).

What's the catch? Is hard to believe there is a solution "good, cheap and fast" all in the same!
Welcome to POA.
As said in other post, you may want to work your way up to this plane. Have fun and build your time and skills in a cheep Piper 140 or a Cessna 172. Then sell and buy a Piper 235 to get your IFR rating. Then sell and get your Mooney. In two Or more years you will be on your way.
 
Welcome to POA.
As said in other post, you may want to work your way up to this plane. Have fun and build your time and skills in a cheep Piper 140 or a Cessna 172. Then sell and buy a Piper 235 to get your IFR rating. Then sell and get your Mooney. In two Or more years you will be on your way.
You aren't the first to make this suggestion in this thread (or on this board in general), but I'm curious as to what the rationale for this suggestion/line of thinking is?

Insurance will almost certainly require a certain amount of dual hours for training/transition so it's not as if he's going to purchase, hop in, and fly off into the sunset. With proper instruction, why couldn't he buy this? If his goal is a cross-country traveling machine it doesn't make sense, to me, to start with a plane (or, in the case of your suggestion, 2 planes) that don't meet his mission because the one he wants is "too much plane for him."
 
Bought my Mooney with 60 hours. If you’re diligent it’s no big deal.
 
Bought my Mooney with 60 hours. If you’re diligent it’s no big deal.

Ya, but yours has that very cool repetitive cycling gear that extends and retracts continuously every 2 seconds, making it all but impossible to have an accidental gear up landing. :D
 
Bravos are very nice. That said, have you thought about an Ovation at that price? Their DA performance is quite good despite not being turbo and the engine is going to be cheaper to maintain.
 
I have the opposite advice to the ones that say you must have an IR to fly high.
I have flown my C182 for 600 hrs all over the western US, all the way to Alaska and the Caribbean, regularly at 14,500-17,500 ft (with O2 cannulas), and all this was done in VMC (I dont have IR). I experienced a 1-day delay in Whitehorse, Canada, a 2-day delay in Florida, and 2 morning delays in the Bay Area and Seattle due to the weather. In 600 hours.
Flying above 18,000ft comes with huge drawbacks with marginal benefits.
If I were you, I'd get the plane and fly it VFR. You will soon figure out if you need IR or not. If you do, it will be best to do it in the plane you will fly.
Have fun.
 
Also remember that those impressive cruise speeds happen up high, and whether or not you get to use them depend on the length of the trip and the winds aloft. If you're going east, the winds usually favor you, but going west, you'll generally stay low.
 
I’ve owned beech, pipers, and Cessna’s, never a Mooney. Why? Never found a mechanic that liked to work on them. If I was close to a shop that specialized in Mooney maintenance, I would of had one. Visit where you will be having the maintenance and see what their opinion is. Unlike the big three, a specialized shop is mandatory in my opinion.
 
You aren't the first to make this suggestion in this thread (or on this board in general), but I'm curious as to what the rationale for this suggestion/line of thinking is?

Insurance will almost certainly require a certain amount of dual hours for training/transition so it's not as if he's going to purchase, hop in, and fly off into the sunset. With proper instruction, why couldn't he buy this? If his goal is a cross-country traveling machine it doesn't make sense, to me, to start with a plane (or, in the case of your suggestion, 2 planes) that don't meet his mission because the one he wants is "too much plane for him."
....rationale for this suggestion....
I do not know much about this pilots capabilities and I was giving advice based on what I thought would be a safe route to take.
 
You aren't the first to make this suggestion in this thread (or on this board in general), but I'm curious as to what the rationale for this suggestion/line of thinking is?

Insurance will almost certainly require a certain amount of dual hours for training/transition so it's not as if he's going to purchase, hop in, and fly off into the sunset. With proper instruction, why couldn't he buy this? If his goal is a cross-country traveling machine it doesn't make sense, to me, to start with a plane (or, in the case of your suggestion, 2 planes) that don't meet his mission because the one he wants is "too much plane for him."
FWIW, my comments were based on my experiences. Granted my Mooney experience was ages ago and things could be different now. But back in the early aughts I partnered in a late 60's C model. At one point the other partner in that plane got the opportunity to partner in a 90's Ovation. He was relatively low time with no IR but probably 100 or so in the C. Insurance quote was in the neighborhood of $5k on top of the existing premium to add him as a named pilot in the Ovation.

When I joined the partnership, I had to get 10 hours dual in the plane to satisfy insurance. Easy peasy. The CFI I used had a student that bought a brand new Encore while still working on his private. He could not get insured to fly it. He had to name the CFI as the only pilot and could only fly it right seat with his CFI in the left seat. It was going to take something like a 100 hours of dual before they'd insure him in the left seat of his own plane. Again, this was many years ago and things might not be so strict now. But I'd still advise any low timer to have more than one solid insurance quote in hand before shopping for a $100k+ Mooney.
 
I’ve owned beech, pipers, and Cessna’s, never a Mooney. Why? Never found a mechanic that liked to work on them. If I was close to a shop that specialized in Mooney maintenance, I would of had one. Visit where you will be having the maintenance and see what their opinion is. Unlike the big three, a specialized shop is mandatory in my opinion.
Whether or not a mechanic "likes" to work on an aircraft is irrelevant to my search for one. Part of my research includes where to find a mechanic, certainly, but not their personal preferences. There are some Mooney Service Centers that I wouldn't trust, despite being a certified MSC. Obviously you have to make the decision that's best for you and your search.

....rationale for this suggestion....
I do not know much about this pilots capabilities and I was giving advice based on what I thought would be a safe route to take.
Fair enough.

FWIW, my comments were based on my experiences. Granted my Mooney experience was ages ago and things could be different now. But back in the early aughts I partnered in a late 60's C model. At one point the other partner in that plane got the opportunity to partner in a 90's Ovation. He was relatively low time with no IR but probably 100 or so in the C. Insurance quote was in the neighborhood of $5k on top of the existing premium to add him as a named pilot in the Ovation.

When I joined the partnership, I had to get 10 hours dual in the plane to satisfy insurance. Easy peasy. The CFI I used had a student that bought a brand new Encore while still working on his private. He could not get insured to fly it. He had to name the CFI as the only pilot and could only fly it right seat with his CFI in the left seat. It was going to take something like a 100 hours of dual before they'd insure him in the left seat of his own plane. Again, this was many years ago and things might not be so strict now. But I'd still advise any low timer to have more than one solid insurance quote in hand before shopping for a $100k+ Mooney.
Insurance should absolutely be a factor when looking to purchase an aircraft. My point was more so centered around the idea that he, or anyone, should buy multiple aircraft before getting the plane they really want.
 
Insurance should absolutely be a factor when looking to purchase an aircraft. My point was more so centered around the idea that he, or anyone, should buy multiple aircraft before getting the plane they really want.
I think it really depends on the plane in question and the pilot in question. I'm not exactly low time but my twin time is extremely low and not at all recent. If I got on here tomorrow and announced that a distant uncle died and left me a large fortune and I was now in the market for a good MU-2, I believe several here would recommend I buy a smaller twin and get a few hundred hours in it first. And I think in that case, that advice would be good.

I once had a chat with the owner of a Mustang at a fly-in. He was pretty well off and owned a Citation that he used for business. He said when he told his insurance company that he wanted to a buy a Mustang, they told him the only way they'd insure him in it is if he got himself at least 100 hours in a T6 Texan first. So he also owned a T6.
 
If we all based our airplane choices on our mechanic's preferences I think we'd all be flying Skyhawks.

Have to pick the right mechanic. My mechanic for the Tiger won't work on anything other than Grummans.
 
My mechanic will work on anything that comes through the door and can fix anything.

I thought the same of mine, until they rebuilt the struts and realized there was a typo in the original manual with a washer installed upside down. I paid for them to learn that. (just an example) Now I take it a place with known Bo experience. Lessens the amount of learning I have to pay the mechanics for.
 
I thought the same of mine, until they rebuilt the struts and realized there was a typo in the original manual with a washer installed upside down. I paid for them to learn that. (just an example) Now I take it a place with known Bo experience. Lessens the amount of learning I have to pay the mechanics for.
My mechanic took a week to fix my hydraulic flap pump. He could have sent it out for repair, but he refused. He fixes things. I offered to pay him for his time, indeed I asked him if I could. He wouldn't take it. Said he wouldn't lean on my dime.

And yes, he's very very popular.
 
My mechanic took a week to fix my hydraulic flap pump. He could have sent it out for repair, but he refused. He fixes things. I offered to pay him for his time, indeed I asked him if I could. He wouldn't take it. Said he wouldn't lean on my dime.

And yes, he's very very popular.
Did you tip him?
 
For you Mooney guys, how is part availability?

It is actually pretty good. There are some specialty shops like Lasar in California and as far as replacement parts go the factory is not dead.

In the Mooney world there are the early model short bodies and mid bodies, then the later long bodies. As a new Private Pilot, if you’re jumping right into a turbo long body, plan on a good transition instructor. There are several around that are known in the Mooney community. What general part of the world are you in? Once the Mooney community knows that, someone will almost assuredly step up and give you a demonstration ride. Posting on the popular Mooney Forum, that I think was mentioned above, will result in a massive amount of support for your project.

If the useful load fits your mission, this model would be an extremely fast and fuel efficient traveler. As with any aircraft, just do due diligence in the selection and prebuy process.

Another thought for you is start with a short body C or E model as a stepping stone. The short body is an easy step from a Cessna, Piper or Beech. Even a C is faster and more fuel efficient than most small planes. It would be a good traveler for the interim. Then stepping into an Ovation or the like would be very practical.

My $0.02,

Edit: In my re reading I saw that you’re in Houston. There are Mooney owners there that would give you a ride. Post on the Mooney Forum to connect. We have a Beach House in Galveston and I would try to give you a ride soon, but my Nooney is down for overhaul.
 
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It is actually pretty good. There are some specialty shops like Lasar in California and as far as replacement parts go the factory is not dead.

In the Mooney world there are the early model short bodies and mid bodies, then the later long bodies. As a new Private Pilot, if you’re jumping right into a turbo long body, plan on a good transition instructor. There are several around that are known in the Mooney community. What general part of the world are you in? Once the Mooney community knows that, someone will almost assuredly step up and give you a demonstration ride. Posting on the popular Mooney Forum, that I think was mentioned above, will result in a massive amount of support for your project.

If the useful load fits your mission, this model would be an extremely fast and fuel efficient traveler. As with any aircraft, just do due diligence in the selection and prebuy process.

Another thought for you is start with a short body C or E model as a stepping stone. The short body is an easy step from a Cessna, Piper or Beech. Even a C is faster and more fuel efficient than most small planes. It would be a good traveler for the interim. Then stepping into an Ovation or the like would be very practical.

My $0.02,

Edit: In my re reading I saw that you’re in Houston. There are Mooney owners there that would give you a ride. Post on the Mooney Forum to connect. We have a Beach House in Galveston and I would try to give you a ride soon, but my Nooney is down for overhaul.

Hey doc, Ernesto is the OP, I'm in the Boston area. I've been flying Cirrus, but I just saw a Bravo, mid 90s vintage I believe, what a sweet airplane. I might just see if I can get a ride to check it out.
 
I'm starting to look for airplanes to by, looking for a good XC plane. Basically being able to get 700nm range with a descent speed.

I was looking at a range of planes, such as Piper Arrow, Saratoga, Cessna 210, etc.

Then I came acroos Mooney M20M Bravo and now I'm confused. They are relatively cheap compared with Saratoga's or 210's, they are faster, and they consume less fuel (15GPH @ 75% cruise!).

What's the catch? Is hard to believe there is a solution "good, cheap and fast" all in the same!

The main catch is that there are enough old wives' tales about how tiny and cramped the Mooney cabin is that there's less demand. I'm 6'4" 300+ and I fly a Mooney Ovation (very similar to the Bravo, with 10 more hp but without the turbo).

The other big thing is that the Mooneys won't carry nearly as much weight as the other planes you mentioned. But it goes faster because its wing isn't as fat as theirs, which they need to haul all that weight! If your mission doesn't include hauling a ton of weight, the Mooneys are a fantastic option.

We've had no issues with parts availability, but to be honest, we really haven't needed all that much. It just doesn't break much.

This. People have asked me if I have trouble getting Mooney parts. I don't know. I've had mine for 9 years and have yet to actually buy a Mooney part.

Some people find the Mooney cockpit a little tight, especially if you are big (over 6 feet - 210 lbs).

Like I said, people keep repeating this and so there are plenty of buyers who never look at Mooneys, so you can get a great plane for a reasonable price.

If you're short *and* wide, you might not like it. But Al Mooney was 6'5" and built himself an airplane. While some people describe a "claustrophobic" feeling, the Mooney is one of the few airplanes where I can have my seat in a comfortable position and reach the panel without leaning forward. If you're shorter, that may mean that the panel is uncomfortably close. The other possible source for the descriptions of it being "claustrophobic" is the earlier models (prior to the J) which had a much more upright windscreen that was closer to your face than most people are used to. The Bravo and other newer models have a much sleeker design that has more room up there.

All that said - The airplanes you mentioned above, Saratogas and 210s, DO have larger cabins than the Mooneys do. They're more of the "SUV/CUV" style, whereas the Mooney might be better described as a "GT".

Also, consider an O2 system so you can go high.

All Bravos should have factory O2. Even my normally aspirated Ovation has factory oxygen.

That's a completely valid point and I make it to myself also. What makes me think of going in this direction is that I want to start doing my instrument rating right away (I've already learned most of the theoretical part) and I want to build up the XC time in my airplane, as part of doing weekend trips. I also thought of going much in simpler airplanes, maybe a Warrior, but that limits the places I can get too (range and speed).

So the idea is trying to merge my instrument rating XC requeriments and doing weekend trips for fun, instead of spending 10k on renting a plane to do "local" XC just for the instrument rating.

Just be aware that it's going to take you some time, as a newly minted pilot, to get up to speed in a hot rod like this. It can get you into trouble a LOT quicker. It will take you longer to do your instrument training with it.

Now... Here's some things to consider:

A simpler airplane that accomplishes your mission might be a better first airplane to own. In your case, the Diamond DA40 would be a good intermediate step. It'll do 140-150 knots on 10gph depending on what year you get, so it's enough faster that you'll be happy with it in the short to medium term for traveling. It's also simpler and less costly to operate and probably a better introduction to aircraft ownership. You'll be able to get your IR quicker, and you'll have great fun with it, it's a really sweet-flying plane.

If you do go for the Mooney, think about *all* your missions. Like I mentioned, I have an Ovation, which is VERY similar to the Bravo only without the turbo. I've wanted a turbo a couple of times, but frankly I'm glad I don't have one, for several reasons:

1) It takes at least 8 miles per thousand feet in the Mooney for climb and descent - 2nm/1000 on the way up, 6nm/1000 on the way down. It's generally best, in both time and fuel, to have at least half of your flight be in cruise. The Ovation is faster than the Bravo below 10,000 feet or so... Put those together, and on a 160nm flight the Ovation is going to get there just as fast as the Bravo. Shorter flights, the Ovation will be faster. And it isn't until you start getting into legs that are at least 300-400nm long before the Bravo will have a significant speed advantage. Given that you'll be burning a lot more fuel and you'll have the added maintenance and overhaul costs on the turbo, unless you're doing those flights the majority of the time, you're just burning money faster. For reference, on a longer trip in the Ovation I plan on 175 KTAS on 12 gph at 9-10,000 feet, I've done 172 KTAS at 13,000 on 10.1 gph. And that's still fast enough that I can pretty much beat the airlines anywhere east of the Rockies flying out of Wisconsin.

2) If you're going to be doing those legs where you do get up high to go fast, you're going to need to be on oxygen. Like I mentioned, I have a factory oxygen system in the Ovation, and I do take it up to the oxygen altitudes occasionally. However, I find it *highly* unpleasant to be on oxygen for very long, because there is ZERO moisture in the oxygen coming out of the tank, so your nose and sinuses will be burning after a little while.

3) If you're going to be doing those legs where you do get up high to go fast, you're also going to be farther away from the scenery. A couple of years ago, I started flying a turboprop for work and very quickly realized that I have the perfect airplane for me. Cruising in the flight levels sounds cool, but it's BORING. You can see things better on Google Maps.

So, think about the M20R as well... And if you think you still want that turbo, go take a ride with someone in an M20M or other turbo bird on a long trip and go up to FL250. See whether you even like it! Thanks to what I'm flying for work now, I am even more glad that I don't have the turbo. The Ovation is, to me, the perfect airplane: It's fast enough to get me places at airline-like speeds if I'm going under 1000 miles, my cost per mile is lower than a 172, I'm still in the fun altitudes, and it's cheap enough to operate that if I want to just go poke holes in the sky, I don't have to worry about what it costs.
 
IEdit: In my re reading I saw that you’re in Houston. There are Mooney owners there that would give you a ride. Post on the Mooney Forum to connect. We have a Beach House in Galveston and I would try to give you a ride soon, but my Nooney is down for overhaul.
I swear that as fast as they are, half of all Mooneys never made it out of Texas. Lots around, lots of good mechanics (DMax!) and lots of CFIs.
 
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