Tall tail - low hangar door

M

mss

Filing Flight Plan
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mss
Hey all. I have a 180K Skywagon on amphibs. My tail height is 13’8”. My door is 12’. Understand that this is the hangar as it will always be. My solution MUST include raising the nose to lower the tail as the plane goes in and out of the hangar. I am a do-it-yourselfer and am looking for ideas from what others before me have done. Plans, photos, comments... Thank you.
MSS
 
18" is a tall order to fix. Only think I can think of would be something akin to a pallet jack or rolling ATV/Lawnmower lift that could lift the pontoons from the front enough to lower the tail. (Or hang something heavy from the tail hook (within capacity specs). How much weight does it take to drop the tail currently?

Something like this: but with a jack incorporated into it. I'd be wary of lifting on the front wheel arms though.

eyJidWNrZXQiOiJhdmlhdG9yc21hcmtldCIsImtleSI6InVwbG9hZHMvNmQxMGQ2NjYtMDMxNy00ZDc3LWEyNmUtMWZiN2I2ZDdkMThkLTEuanBnIiwiZWRpdHMiOnsicmVzaXplIjp7IndpZHRoIjo5MzAsImhlaWdodCI6Njk4LCJmaXQiOiJjb3ZlciJ9fX0=
 
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SoonerAviator said:
18" is a tall order to fix. Only think I can think of would be something akin to a pallet jack or rolling ATV/Lawnmower lift that could lift the pontoons from the front enough to lower the tail. (Or hang something heavy from the tail hook (within capacity specs). How much weight does it take to drop the tail currently?

Something like this: but with a jack incorporated into it. I'd be wary of lifting on the front wheel arms though.

eyJidWNrZXQiOiJhdmlhdG9yc21hcmtldCIsImtleSI6InVwbG9hZHMvNmQxMGQ2NjYtMDMxNy00ZDc3LWEyNmUtMWZiN2I2ZDdkMThkLTEuanBnIiwiZWRpdHMiOnsicmVzaXplIjp7IndpZHRoIjo5MzAsImhlaWdodCI6Njk4LCJmaXQiOiJjb3ZlciJ9fX0=
Click to expand...
Hm, that looks a lot like a transmission jack.
61232_W3.jpg
 
SoonerAviator said:
18" is a tall order to fix. Only think I can think of would be something akin to a pallet jack or rolling ATV/Lawnmower lift that could lift the pontoons from the front enough to lower the tail. (Or hang something heavy from the tail hook (within capacity specs). How much weight does it take to drop the tail currently?

Something like this: but with a jack incorporated into it. I'd be wary of lifting on the front wheel arms though.

eyJidWNrZXQiOiJhdmlhdG9yc21hcmtldCIsImtleSI6InVwbG9hZHMvNmQxMGQ2NjYtMDMxNy00ZDc3LWEyNmUtMWZiN2I2ZDdkMThkLTEuanBnIiwiZWRpdHMiOnsicmVzaXplIjp7IndpZHRoIjo5MzAsImhlaWdodCI6Njk4LCJmaXQiOiJjb3ZlciJ9fX0=
Click to expand...

Start with a couple of these. Take it from there. EDIT: oops, this meant for @mss
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-z9g...2428/3296/FSJ-60C_3__70076.1571345562.jpg?c=2
 
asicer said:
Hm, that looks a lot like a transmission jack.
Click to expand...

Right, I was thinking something like a scissor jack with an easy crank. Whatever it is would have to likely be custom, but it shouldn't require more than basic fabrication onto a regular amphibian tug. It just depends how much weight is required to lift the front up enough to get the tail down 2' or so. Maybe some sort of a "stop" incorporated in it when you reach the proper height. As long as it doesn't overstress the front structure I'd think it would be fine. Maybe in conjunction with rear ballast, but I'd hate to add complexity or an item that if forgotten, could be catastrophic if left attached during takeoff.
 
I am trying to calculate the nose wheel weights. Weight shouldn’t be an obstacle.

I had a tug 25 years ago that worked OK. It had an arm that extended left and relight then pinned into the nose wheel casters. It was an electric acme screw that raised the nose so the tug steering took over with the nose wheel casters off the ground. This was not built to raise the nose that high but to maneuver the A/C on the tarmac.

The door happens to be a bi-fold but it actually goes higher up than the header. It’s the header and one rafter that the tail needs to clear. Again, I can't alter the hangar. This needs to be a mechanical solution.

I believe the mains are very close to the centerline of the overall length (not CG)? So raising the nose 18” should lower the tail 18”?
 
You didn't mention if this is a T-Hangar, but if not I have a simple idea for you. Put the airplane in nose first, build a ramp towards the rear so that the nose goes up as it enters the hangar. Use an ATV winch to pull it up the ramp nose first. Problem solved.

... I just looked at some 180 amphibian pictures. You could modify an old car dolly, the kind used to haul cars by the front axle only. Then modify the existing ramps to take the front wheels of the amphibian floats. It should work easily and you can remove the dolly to lower the nose once inside. Use your pickup or suv or golf cart to move it around.
 
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seems like you need to drop the tail closer to 2' than 18". I'd try it out first on the ramp with a simple system to make sure you can even reasonably do what you're trying to do. Then I'd measure three times to be sure I don't make a $10K mistake. I would check with the float manufacturer too to be sure you're not doing anything that would overstress the front of the floats. A pull-down on the tail and tow-in from the back seems like it could be a safer option than lifting the nose.
 
My neighbor uses a forklift to lift the nose and push his helio into the hangar when it's on floats. It's pretty scary to watch. Not surprisingly he hasn't put the floats back on since he removed them awhile back.
 
Horizontal distance from tail to rear wheels? Horizontal distance from rear wheels to front wheels? You may be lifting the nose more than you think..
 
EdFred said:
Horizontal distance from tail to rear wheels? Horizontal distance from rear wheels to front wheels? You may be lifting the nose more than you think..
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Hopefully the distance from rear wheels to tail is longer than rear wheels to front of pontoons.
 
Probably not an option but can the float gear wheels be raised to get the whole thing onto a lower profile skid. Raise that skid up under the floats. Raise the float gear. Then lower the entire skid. Then pull it in.. And if so would it even drop 18"?
 
Sinistar said:
Probably not an option but can the float gear wheels be raised to get the whole thing onto a lower profile skid. Raise that skid up under the floats. Raise the float gear. Then lower the entire skid. Then pull it in.. And if so would it even drop 18"?
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You could, but the distance between the floats and the ground when the wheels are lowered isn't very much. It might drop it 2-3 inches is all. Then you lose your pivot point. The whole key to this is the rear wheel position in relation to the tail.

SoonerAviator said:
Hopefully the distance from rear wheels to tail is longer than rear wheels to front of pontoons.
Click to expand...

And can the rear taper of the floats drop enough? Might not even get the required 20+" of drop before they bottom out.
 
Doug Reid said:
Take your time....plot it out on paper to scale first.
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Yep. Then confirm on the ramp by finding a safe way to lift the nose until the tail is low enough to clear. Is the entrance to the hanger level, or is there some slope you'll have to account for?

Don't start buying parts for the whiz-bang transporter jack until all of the groundwork has been done.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
You didn't mention if this is a T-Hangar, but if not I have a simple idea for you. Put the airplane in nose first, build a ramp towards the rear so that the nose goes up as it enters the hangar. Use an ATV winch to pull it up the ramp nose first. Problem solved.

... I just looked at some 180 amphibian pictures. You could modify an old car dolly, the kind used to haul cars by the front axle only. Then modify the existing ramps to take the front wheels of the amphibian floats. It should work easily and you can remove the dolly to lower the nose once inside. Use your pickup or suv or golf cart to move it around.
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Brilliant!
 
EdFred said:
. . . And can the rear taper of the floats drop enough? Might not even get the required 20+" of drop before they bottom out.
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Yup. First order of business is to get aircraft tail near the obstruction, then use whatever safe method of raising the front with the mains chocked to see if any of the lift/pontoon bottom taper angle is even possible. Hopefully he can get 20" or more tail drop for a margin of error before hitting the bottom of the taper. Then go about constructing a mechanism to facilitate the lift and control of pushing the aircraft back into the hangar. Could be a lost cause.
 
I grabbed a profile view of a 185 on floats. Quick and dirty in photoshop using rulers shows you may not be able to lower the tail 20 inches to get it in. Or it's going to be VERY VERY VERY VERY close. But I'd wager not going to make it.

SoonerAviator said:
Yup. First order of business is to get aircraft tail near the obstruction, then use whatever safe method of raising the front with the mains chocked to see if any of the lift/pontoon bottom taper angle is even possible. Hopefully he can get 20" or more tail drop for a margin of error before hitting the bottom of the taper. Then go about constructing a mechanism to facilitate the lift and control of pushing the aircraft back into the hangar. Could be a lost cause.
Click to expand...

And you'd be dragging the float across the ground. How's that scraping sound gonna ring out in his ears?
 
EdFred said:
I grabbed a profile view of a 185 on floats. Quick and dirty in photoshop using rulers shows you may not be able to lower the tail 20 inches to get it in. Or it's going to be VERY VERY VERY VERY close. But I'd wager not going to make it.

And you'd be dragging the float across the ground. How's that scraping sound gonna ring out in his ears?
Click to expand...

Only one way to find out for sure! :)
 
My neighbor had a similar problem with a mule he was trying to get in the barn. Mule kept hitting his head on the top of the door. He was going to cut a silhouette of the top of the mule's head out of the door with a Sawzall.

I suggested that he take a shovel and remove some dirt from the bottom of the doorway. He told me that pilot's must be stupid. I asked what he meant and he said, "the problem isn't that his legs is too long, it's his head that's too tall." :p
 
Pallet jack would fit, and has a long handle that looks kinda like a towbar. Manual propulsion. The problem is that the lift is only about 7”, probably not enough.

A “stacker” looks similar but with a 5’ lift. Still has manual propulsion.

Forklift is like a stacker plus powered propulsion.
 
My 182 spent 40 years living in a shed roof t-hangar that was originally built for a 170B. Between a ramp and a little block of wood that kept the strut completely extended, it was able to barely go in and out.
 
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