With all the other problems...is this really important?

BryanAV8R

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
178
Location
Fall River MA & Morrisville PA
Display Name

Display name:
Bryan
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/aopa/aopa-calls-for-standardization-of-ga-parking-labels

Is this really the best they can do to remain relevant? Has anyone here really had problems at most of the GA fields (I can see where it might make sense at, say, KJFK or KORD) finding a place to park or is this using the Hegelian Dialectic to 1) create a problem, 2) propose a solution, and 3) claim credit for solving the problem to maintain relevancy.

I've come to the conclusion that these non-profit associations (like AOPA, ARRL, etc) exist to perpetuate their own existence long after their original purpose ran out of string.
 
Having flown a decade, I won’t complain if this problem gets fixed. Two types of stops. 1) call ahead and get real details from 2-5 places and pick the best. Or 2) it’s time to put her down and hope for the best. I’m fine if they want to fix this one or any other one.
 
Reading the article, it’s wrapped up in the fees problem. So yes, it’s really important.
 
Has anyone here really had problems at most of the GA fields (I can see where it might make sense at, say, KJFK or KORD) finding a place to park or is this using the Hegelian Dialectic to 1) create a problem, 2) propose a solution, and 3) claim credit for solving the problem to maintain relevancy.
Calling ahead usually works. But you're getting a verbal description of where to park that sometimes has a reference point that may not be easy to identify. Or the person you're talking to doesn't understand the question or is just wrong with the answer.

So I would not complain about having easy to identify parking on a chart or at the ramp itself.
 
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/aopa/aopa-calls-for-standardization-of-ga-parking-labels

Is this really the best they can do to remain relevant? Has anyone here really had problems at most of the GA fields (I can see where it might make sense at, say, KJFK or KORD) finding a place to park or is this using the Hegelian Dialectic to 1) create a problem, 2) propose a solution, and 3) claim credit for solving the problem to maintain relevancy.

I've come to the conclusion that these non-profit associations (like AOPA, ARRL, etc) exist to perpetuate their own existence long after their original purpose ran out of string.

I wouldn’t say they created the problem
 
There a lot of folks working for aopa; I'm guessing they're working on several things at once.

I'd give you reasons this is worth working on, but you didn't start the thread because you wanted answers, you wanted to ***** about aopa. Carry on.
 
I dunno, I've been into I can't how many Class C and D airports, even a Bravo or two, and signage for FBO parking didn't even cross my mind. Maybe because before I go in, I study the airport diagram, know with FBO I am going to, look it up on Google map, and know exactly where I'm going. And if I do need the signage, is it really that hard to figure out RAMP / FBO / PARKING all mean the same thing?

I'm actually interested in the reasons this is an issue spending time on.
 
I think this is part of addressing the issue with unreasonable FBO fees. I’ll give you an example:

There was a very interesting thread on Beechtalk where a pilot posted that he had found a way to avoid paying Signature fees at a major airport. He did it by emailing the airport manager, asking if there were public parking spots available on the airport (there should be), and if so, was he *required* to access them through Signature. They replied that yes, there were, and no, he wasn’t required to use Signature, and described how to use them. I think the point here is that if the airport manager admitted they were required to use Signature, they would be on thin ice legally, in terms of their mandate to provide public access.

Anyway, I thought this was a great idea, so I emailed the airport manager at one of the airports I frequent that always irritates me by forcing me to use Atlantic and pay their fees with no services. After a multiple-email exchange they finally admitted that yes, there are public GA parking spots and that yes, you can access them without using Atlantic. “Great!” I said... but where are they?

Well, after a few more email exchanges that were very unclear about where these spaces are located, the manager finally emailed me a screenshot of Google Earth satellite view where they had drawn a circle around the three public tie-down spots. They were literally just three random nondescript “T” spots in a long line of tie-downs. No way you would have ever been able to figure that out without the satellite image.

So, anyway, I think they’re trying to address this problem through labeling and signage requirements, which seems reasonable.

FWIW, I always feel extorted when I have to pay fees to a monopoly FBO when I get zero services. Drives me nuts. I would encourage everyone to remember these are public airports - you’re supposed to be able to use them without being forced to pay for things you don’t need, and FBOs are typically granted monopoly or quasi monopoly status under their agreement not to abuse it!
 
I dunno, I've been into I can't how many Class C and D airports, even a Bravo or two, and signage for FBO parking didn't even cross my mind. Maybe because before I go in, I study the airport diagram, know with FBO I am going to, look it up on Google map, and know exactly where I'm going. And if I do need the signage, is it really that hard to figure out RAMP / FBO / PARKING all mean the same thing?

I'm actually interested in the reasons this is an issue spending time on.
I think their main goal in this is to mark free parking vs fee parking on airport diagrams, no so much taxi signage.
 
Sounds like their communication skills are as bad as ever.
Yep, this whole thread could have been avoided if the headline was "AOPA Calls for public access Transparency on Airport Ramps" or something more poetic but to the point.
 
It's an AVweb article. We should know not to expect much.
 
Well I came here to trash AOPA but
I always feel extorted when I have to pay fees to a monopoly FBO when I get zero services. Drives me nuts. I would encourage everyone to remember these are public airports - you’re supposed to be able to use them without being forced to pay for things you don’t need, and FBOs are typically granted monopoly or quasi monopoly status under their agreement not to abuse it
is a good point. So if AOPA can institute that change that would be nice

I mean, when I park my car I know what the "fee" situation will be.. not a bad idea to demark the private and public use areas of an airport

Granted, I don't usually get bent out of shape over "FBO FEES!" in my experience as a piston flying proletariat the fees have been nominal and I get free cookies and a nice building and all that other bourgeoisie elegance that comes with it
 
I can’t remember knowing where to park ever being an issue. Maybe a second or two of looking around when taxiing to figure out where to go. Generally if it’s a big enough airport to have parking divided up like that they have line people with a tug who will relocate you where they want you.

How about instead of this we standardize publishing of landing/parking fees in a manner that we can pull it up in ForeFlight or whatever website during flight planning rather than have to call to get a (hopefully) correct answer?
 
This is all about forcing the hand of airport authorities and their FBO lessees to more transparently define when and what fees are attached to public airport usage. I've been bitten before during a "stop and drop" flight to ROC, where I delivered a perishable research sample to a colleague at one of the local universities. There was no access to the ramp from the public except through the FBO, who insisted on charging me an outrageous fee for parking on their potholed ramp for 10 minutes. No services were required or rendered other than my walking though the lobby to get my delivery outside the fence. I couldn't tanker enough of their expensive fuel to get them to waive the fee for such a short flight, either. So this is what it is all about.

On the flip side, I made a trip to BUF to drop of my wife to drive a cancer patient back home in Central New York, and the FBO couldn't have been more helpful, even though I was just dropping off my wife. I reciprocated by buying what fuel I could fit into the tanks for a rather short flight, and the FBO kindly waived any fees.

When I am traveling, I am happy to park my plane overnight for few a few days at the FBO of my choice, buy their fuel, and pay appropriate parking fees. Most FBOs, even at larger airports, are very friendly and helpful. But it sure would be helpful if the required fees were clearly communicated. I mean, like, every FBO has a web page this days. This is the 2020s. I shouldn't have to pick up the phone and call a bunch of FBOs and ask 20 questions to plan my trip. How hard it is to disclose ALL your applicable fees?

Corporate jets may not balk at $100 landing fees and $250 call-out fees, but flib flyers like me will care a lot about being dinged $50 for nothing but occupying space on your tarmac for a quick turn. FBOs won't go broke by not dinging the flibs. That's not where their income is coming from.
 
This is all about forcing the hand of airport authorities and their FBO lessees to more transparently define when and what fees are attached to public airport usage. I've been bitten before during a "stop and drop" flight to ROC, where I delivered a perishable research sample to a colleague at one of the local universities. There was no access to the ramp from the public except through the FBO, who insisted on charging me an outrageous fee for parking on their potholed ramp for 10 minutes. No services were required or rendered other than my walking though the lobby to get my delivery outside the fence. I couldn't tanker enough of their expensive fuel to get them to waive the fee for such a short flight, either. So this is what it is all about.

On the flip side, I made a trip to BUF to drop of my wife to drive a cancer patient back home in Central New York, and the FBO couldn't have been more helpful, even though I was just dropping off my wife. I reciprocated by buying what fuel I could fit into the tanks for a rather short flight, and the FBO kindly waived any fees.

When I am traveling, I am happy to park my plane overnight for few a few days at the FBO of my choice, buy their fuel, and pay appropriate parking fees. Most FBOs, even at larger airports, are very friendly and helpful. But it sure would be helpful if the required fees were clearly communicated. I mean, like, every FBO has a web page this days. This is the 2020s. I shouldn't have to pick up the phone and call a bunch of FBOs and ask 20 questions to plan my trip. How hard it is to disclose ALL your applicable fees?

Corporate jets may not balk at $100 landing fees and $250 call-out fees, but flib flyers like me will care a lot about being dinged $50 for nothing but occupying space on your tarmac for a quick turn. FBOs won't go broke by not dinging the flibs. That's not where their income is coming from.

Correction: *Our* ramp, because it’s a public airport.
 
I find it hilariously ironic that someone who's here to prostitute himself (as attested to by his signature line) creates a thread to ***** about a "NFP"* prostituting itself

*in quotation marks because there are few of any who are literally "NFP"...AOPA definitely ain't.
 
I find it hilariously ironic that someone who's here to prostitute himself (as attested to by his signature line) creates a thread to ***** about a "NFP"* prostituting itself

*in quotation marks because there are few of any who are literally "NFP"...AOPA definitely ain't.
I find it interesting that you see something about prostituting oneself in both the post and sig line. I see it in neither place.
 
Back
Top