Thinking about: Leasing a new truck

We've only leased once, and it didn't work out too badly. At the beginning of the lease, the negotiated residual end of lease was $33k. The car came due to be turned in during the worst of the 2009 downturn, and the lessor was awash in returned cars. They offered the car to us for $24k, and we bought it as it was still a nicer car than most that we could buy new for $24k. It ended up being a decent car, we put 160k miles on it over the 10 years we had it with very little in MX/repairs. At 160k, it encountered an issue that would cost more to repair than the car was worth, so time to go.

But, like you said, we were lucky due to market conditions. I won't lease again, too much of a roll of the dice.

Yep, people that leased big SUVs in the late 2000 lucked out a lot. Their cars were "worthless" in 2009 if they had bought it instead and had to sell. Bring car to dealer and leave it was a nice benefit of the lease then.


One of the things that can get people that lease is the fact that you negotiate with multiple entities. With financing, you typically negotiate with the dealer on the price of the car and get available financing terms(you may have that already from your bank if you are smart). With leasing, price is dealer, residual and "interest" is leasing company. The leasing company may be or may not be the finance arm of the brand in question, but it's still a separate entity. And that residual is the main thing that dictates the cost of the lease. It's also harder to shop around. Things are a lot less transparent especially if you are new to it.
 
I leased directly from Ford, they certainly didn't expect "top condition", they even enumerated how many dings, scratches, or dents were OK. I bought out the lease anyway, due to favorable loan conditions, and the fact that I don't drive much at all, maybe 3K miles/yr.
Ford is probably not as particular as Lexus, which was the car that was leased in our case.
 
It’s a trade off between sacrificing value for convenience. If you are wealthy (have enough where you can’t spend it fast enough) then have at it. There are many people like this. Lots of people have saved up so much money during their life that they have never considered to “enjoy” it before they take their last breath.

Leasing is never a good option for anyone who is not wealthy.
 
Lots of opinion, none of it helpful for an individual who wants to decide whether leasing is a good option to get use of a new car. Doesn't address the key feature of a lease: The lessor assumes the risk of the value of the chattel decreasing more than anticipated at the time of the lease inception. Right now, a gallon of gas is $2 and change, there have been times it has been $4. If fuel prices were to return to that level in 3-4 years, the resale value of a vanity pickup truck is going to drop relative to more economical vehicles. As the lessee, you dont care, you give the thing a good detailing job and return it to the dealer before you sign the lease on the replacement. For the 3 year period of the lease, you have predictable monthly vehicle expense.

This is definitely true. Happened in 2009 and to a lower extend a month or two ago. However, there are a lot of things that have to fall into place for a lessee to take advantage of it. Basically, you need to have a lot of luck for this to pay off. Not something I would rely on. Today, for example, used car market is very hot again. If anything, there is a much higher probability that you will want to change the car before the lease ends or not want to change the car when the lease ends for various personal reasons. Easy to do with something you own, hard with something you rent with long term contract.


The comparison with leasing a new car is not driving an 18 year old high mileage car with liability only insurance. The only valid comparison is buying a new car with either a loan or cash and trading it for a new car at the same fixed point in time. Whether that monthly expense is higher or lower than a loan payment + depreciation (or cost of money + depreciation for a cash deal) is a question you can only answer at the end of the entire transaction.

Strictly speaking also true. Comparing 36 mo lease vs trading in a new car after 36 months of ownership - assuming you do not go over allotted miles - will probably yield similar results(though I still maintain that lease will cost a bit more), but with purchase you have a lot more options to make it a lot more cost effective. With lease, you really don't(buying your own car after lease is usually not cost effective).
1. You can keep car longer and thus spread depreciation over more years. There are no 5y leases that I am aware of, but many manufacturers still have warranty at that point and modern car is pretty reliable even longer than that. The longer you keep the car, the less it costs per month on average.
2. Buy lightly used car to begin with - which is always the cheapest way to go anyway.
3. You do not have to trade it in, selling it directly usually yields better result.
 
This is definitely true. Happened in 2009 and to a lower extend a month or two ago. However, there are a lot of things that have to fall into place for a lessee to take advantage of it. Basically, you need to have a lot of luck for this to pay off. Not something I would rely on. Today, for example, used car market is very hot again. If anything, there is a much higher probability that you will want to change the car before the lease ends or not want to change the car when the lease ends for various personal reasons. Easy to do with something you own, hard with something you rent with long term contract.

If your goal is to 'get one over' on the leasing company, you are not going to win at this game. If your personal circumstances are predictable and you want to drive a nice car, leasing is probably going to cost about the same or a little bit more than a financed purchase. The premium you pay is for the predictability of your monthly cost. Many car buyers have so little (and often negative) equity in their car that realistically there is little difference between 'buying' and leasing. Do you really 'own' the car if you have a payment for 120% of its value ?

Strictly speaking also true. Comparing 36 mo lease vs trading in a new car after 36 months of ownership - assuming you do not go over allotted miles - will probably yield similar results(though I still maintain that lease will cost a bit more), but with purchase you have a lot more options to make it a lot more cost effective. With lease, you really don't(buying your own car after lease is usually not cost effective).
1. You can keep car longer and thus spread depreciation over more years. There are no 5y leases that I am aware of, but many manufacturers still have warranty at that point and modern car is pretty reliable even longer than that. The longer you keep the car, the less it costs per month on average.
2. Buy lightly used car to begin with - which is always the cheapest way to go anyway.
3. You do not have to trade it in, selling it directly usually yields better result.

I used to buy 2 year lease-returns and between the three drivers in the house we drove them into the 220-250k range. When I am done, the cars have very little residual value and I sell them for a bundle of $100 bills to a young car mechanic. Once I could afford it, I switched to buying new and driving them until the 220-250k range. With the long holding time, when broken down to a monthly cost, the difference between new and the 2-3 year cars is a rounding error. My wife gets the new car, I get the hand-me down. Never had a car I didn't like and my problem is really one of parking spaces ;-)



As I said, I have only leased one car, and that had a tax angle to it. I rather buy new and drive them a long time. I just object to the sanctimonious* 'you should never lease a car' mantra that doesn't seem to be based on an analysis of the numbers and more of a religious edict.










* not from you
 
I love when people describe leases in absolutes. It's just a different financial model with more inscrutable terms, but good or bad terms can exist with either path.

Based on our state/fed incentive mix, 24 month leases of Electric Vehicles allow us to capture 5-6 grand per year in free government "incentive" (nee government cheese/waste/loot) AND not worry about obsolescence or battery capacity issues. Combine that with a manufacturer trying to unload unpopular models, and you can see some real perverse lease deals. The Nissan Leaf in our area was down to under $3/day for a 24mo lease a few months ago, and I see that NorCal currently has a Chevy Bolt lease for $2.50/day (bummer that it's for 36mo though). We leased a BMW i3 for $5/day from 2018 until 2020, and avoided that particular model's lousy resale value. (Our lease residual was 34k, 2 year old i3s sell in the high teens nowadays) -- the feds and oregon paid about 65% of our lease for us, and were primed to do it all over again after 2 years. A purchase only allows one bite on that apple. Leasing allows recurrent "incentive claims" :D

I'm sure there are other edge cases. Do the math, find the right deal for your circumstance.

Personally I think new truck prices are flipping insane lately, but based on how many bro-dozers I see on the freeway, people are finding ways to obtain them.
 
That’s the rub. Pickup trucks (unless used for a business) aren’t going to be an edge case like electrics.

Not sure if I would call many of these fussy things with foo foo amenities pickup trucks either, but that’s why they are priced higher than a nice sports car. LOL
 
Paid $2500 for it. It needed tires and that's it. 111K miles on it, best running and driving car I've ever had. Started fine when we had that -31F cold snap, and yes it was outside in the cold that night. I'd drive it anywhere.

It is kind of a gas hog but compared to a Chevy 1500 not so much.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9627.jpg
    IMG_9627.jpg
    118.9 KB · Views: 33
Paid $2500 for it. It needed tires and that's it. 111K miles on it, best running and driving car I've ever had. Started fine when we had that -31F cold snap, and yes it was outside in the cold that night. I'd drive it anywhere.

It is kind of a gas hog but compared to a Chevy 1500 not so much.

Can't go wrong with a Panther, solid cars. We owned this CV, I loved it, my wife hated it.

i-t4T9Wvw-O.jpg
 
Can't go wrong with a Panther, solid cars. We owned this CV, I loved it, my wife hated it.


Mom's got a newer Prius, and Dad has an 09 Jetta TDi that he bought new. On top of that Dad keeps a beater 98 Lumina that I have been driving.

Out of all of the cars I've driven (Cavalier, Impala, Prius, Civic Hybrid, Jetta TDi, Elantra, Volt, Audi TT) I really like this Panther. I wouldn't mind buying another.

None of these are a pickup but...
 
Last edited:
I am that person that does not go over the yearly mileage.

Tell me why this is a bad idea other than having to put down a hefty origination fee like $5000.

Depends what you do with it at the end of your lease. If you intend to give it back, you're locking in a fairly costly way to drive a new truck. If you're going to buy it at the end of the lease, that may be a practical way to reduce your out of pocket over the first three or four years. But then again, maybe not, depending on the lease deal. What you are definitely doing is locking in what you will be paying for the lease term. If you buy and finance, if you put enough down to where you don't owe more than the truck is worth, you can always get out of it.

All the self appointed financial gurus advise against buying a new car. If you're only going to keep it for a few years, that's sound advice. It's also sound advice if you're going to buy an expensive car. and you want to save money, sort of. If you really wanted to save money, you wouldn't be buying an expensive car at all. In my household, my wife and I are permitted to get a new car every eight years. My wife hasn't quite kept that rule, we traded the first car we bought her after 6.5 years, since she wanted a van to carpool with the neighbors. I haven't either, but in the other direction, I kept my last two for 10.5 years and 12 years. I will have to say that the 12 years was too long, the car started needing stuff and I wasn't saving nearly enough to justify the inconvenience of having a repair or two per year. My wife's car is a 2014 Explorer , she'll be getting something new this fall. I have a 2014 Fusion, my eight years is up next year, and I think I'm going to take my eight year option, mainly because I want something different. I feel sort of guilty about it, the Fusion is by far the most reliable vehicle I've ever had, but now that the daily commute has turned into a weekly one, I want something different to drive.

So here's a case study. Two years ago, we bought my younger daughter a 2017 Escape Titanium with 21,000 miles on it for right about $20,000. That car stickered for $28,000 more or less. Let's say the actual transaction price was $27,000 including that annoying dealer fee, but not tax. We pay a 6% tax on vehicle purchases here, so that was $21,200 for the used Escape, and would be $28,620 for the new one. Since I had good results keeping a car for 10 years but not so much 12 years, I'm going to say my daughter should replace this car at 10 years of age. I went to Edmunds and did a valuation on a 10 year old Escape equipped like the one she has, and it came back with a value of right around $5,000 for a private party sale, which is what I would do with a car of that value. One much more than that I would likely trade.

So, for the new Escape, keeping it until it is 10 years old would be around $23,600 depreciation, and for the used one, $16,200. That's $2,360 per year for the new one and $2,025 for the eight years she'd be keeping the one we bought. We didn't finance her car, so there's not a cost of money to look at here. Even if we had financed it, new car rates are lower than used car rates, and the cost of money would be insignificant. Now, I wasn't about to buy either child a new car, buying a teenager a new car is bad juju, and they take these cars off to college and it's very likely the vehicles will suffer some minor damage while at school. Maintenance and repairs should be nearly identical for both vehicles, keeping the new one 10 years would be a couple more oil changes than keeping the used one for eight years, any repairs would be under warranty, and the one we bought had the original tires.

I suppose leasing can be a decent option if you absolutely must trade your car in every couple of years and don't drive them. I'm not that. I run my vehicles in to the ground.

I got close to that with the car I kept for 12 years. My experience was that the money saved wasn't enough to justify keeping the car that long.
 
I got close to that with the car I kept for 12 years. My experience was that the money saved wasn't enough to justify keeping the car that long.

I don't have a hard rule of when to trade, usually do it when the vehicle becomes unreliable. That said, the last car I had I sold when it was 16 years old, an F-150 Supercrew, and it was as solid as a rock. I only sold it because after driving it for 16 years I was ready for something new. I sold it to my brother and he calls it "The Beast" because he tows a couple of trailers with it, has had it an additional 4 years, and it absolutely refuses to break. In hindsight I should have kept it, it obviously would still be chugging along fine. I hope to get 15+ years from the new car, but I doubt it will match the durability of that Ford. Rarely is a car unbreakable, but this one truly is.
 
Personally I think new truck prices are flipping insane lately, but based on how many bro-dozers I see on the freeway, people are finding ways to obtain them.
Bro-dozer? Had not heard that term before. lol
 
Leasing rarely makes financial sense and if they make you pay an up front fee, it's almost certainly a disaster. The few times it works is in the case of businesses where a lease can work better than outright purchase and financing, but that depends on your accounting methods and how many vehicles you end up using.
 
Bro-dozer? Had not heard that term before. lol

Lifted F250 with spacers on the lugs to push the oversized rims with AT tires out past the fender flares. This is done so that driving through any kind of pot-hole creates a trail of 'mud' up the side of the vehicle. This apparently is a sign of sexual prowess or something.
 
Our answer to seeing trucks like that is "Sorry about your penis."
 
Our answer to seeing trucks like that is "Sorry about your penis."

Yes. Often a reminder or avatar of the lost body parts is carried on a chain draped over the trailer hitch (which due to the lift is in a comically high position and near useless for the task of towing a trailer).
 
This pandemic is playing out on the car market in an interesting and unexpected(or maybe expected if you think about how much money we are pouring at "the problem") ways. Unlike 2009 when people that leased big SUVs ended up "winning" against buyers as gas prices and tanked economy made those cars worthless, today - with used car prices going through the roof - buyers are considerably better positioned vs lessee than even normal. If you had to return your leased car in 2020 or 2021, you didn't get any help from this spike in used car prices.

There are certainly reasons to lease. Many are pretty valid. Others are more of "I want to drive a Mercedes, but the only way I can afford the monthly payments is if I lease". I won't tell people how to spend their money and what they should value most when buying a car. There are even some cases where lease is cheaper than outright purchase. Those are far and few in between and almost all have to do with government interference(taxes, EV subsidies, CAFE issues, etc). If that applies to you or your purchase, sure, run the numbers and lease. Or if you value other benefits of leasing over buying even at some extra cost, sure, lease. Just be aware how your leaser(as the car owner) deals with their customers. Not all are equal and differences may introduce significant costs at the end of the lease.

For most non-business transactions on most vehicles, leasing costs more than buying the same new car over the length of you driving it.
 
I don't buy new or lease any more. I've already picked out the make, model, color, interior, and options of my next vehicle. I'm just waiting another year or two until it gets down to the price point I'm willing to pay for it. Depreciation on these is particularly brutal for the first several years.
 
I lease my moms cars for her. Always the base car, with my GM credit card, and rebates, its almost always 1-2k down and crazy cheap month payments (this lease is 209 a month, or less than half hangar rent). This way she gets a new car, warranty, new tires, roadside assistance, loaner cars, and maintenance all taken care of. The monthly payment is cheap piece of mind and saves me having to troubleshoot issues over the phone with her. Dealer handles that for me. If she had a garage, I would push her to get a Bolt next time and save her the cost of gas and oil changes..
 
Bro-dozer? Had not heard that term before. lol

Usually a mall crawler 3/4-1 ton truck with a lift kit 6" or 8". Comically large wheels (22-26") but tires with zero sidewall that would be absolutely worthless in any off-road environment. Sometimes they drop $10K+ in color-matched suspension parts that never see dirt, and the diesel will never have a trailer attached. Essentially a pavement princess. The new craze is the "Carolina squat" where they intentionally have the rear end lower than the front. Driver is just about guaranteed to be wearing something that says "Yee Yee" on it, lol.

1053059.jpg
 
Brodozer caught in the wild, parked next to our bikes at a motel on a trip. That's a Yamaha Sten and a BMW GS, both fairly tall motorcycles, but they're dwarfed by the 'dozer. Top of the dude's cab was even with the ceiling of the porch. Oh, and a proper brodozer is a diesel, wimpy little gasser trucks, no matter how lifted, don't qualify. The only thing that keeps this from being a top notch 'dozer is the lack of a Cummins or CAT front license plate. Had to take a picture of this one...

i-McPDdBG-X3.jpg
 
Brodozer caught in the wild, parked next to our bikes at a motel on a trip. That's a Yamaha Sten and a BMW GS, both fairly tall motorcycles, but they're dwarfed by the 'dozer. Top of the dude's cab was even with the ceiling of the porch. Oh, and a proper brodozer is a diesel, wimpy little gasser trucks, no matter how lifted, don't qualify. The only thing that keeps this from being a top notch 'dozer is the lack of a Cummins or CAT front license plate. Had to take a picture of this one...

i-McPDdBG-X3.jpg

Eh, I'll dissent on this one. I think that one is border line for "Bro Dozer" labels. It's looks to be mostly factory aside from the aftermarket wheels and small lift kit, but there is still plenty of sidewall on the tires and no absurd steel plate bumpers. No exhaust stacks cut into the floor of the bed, wheels are inside the fender flares. The factory stock Dodge (Ram) Power Wagon 2500 is about the same height/stance. I mean, it's still a lifted diesel, but I don't think it's quite brodozer status.
 
Might be a need soon. Driving a 2003 Chevy Silverado that is showing signs of aging. WANTING before I have to NEED one.
Bro-dozer? Had not heard that term before. lol
I'm not a truck person. Never saw the point unless you frequently need the utility that one provides. I don't. Can't believe how expensive they have become, too! Anyway, my comments are directed at trucks, just vehicles.

Car dealers make significantly more profit on a lease than they do on new vehicle sale. Unless you are confident that you can out-finance the dealership's finance manager (closer), you're probably going to be helping them add to that statistic when you lease.

Buying (or leasing) new vehicles is not the most economical way to provide transportation due to the rapid depreciation in the vehicles first few years. A more economical method is to buy vehicles that are two to four years old and keep them for a good number of years.

I like the rule-of-thumb that the value of all of your vehicles should not be more than half of your annual household income. This is based on the idea that since vehicles are depreciating, you want to limit your depreciation losses to something reasonable for your level of income. Go too far above this as your losses to depreciation will start to impact your ability to build wealth.

Lastly, I don't finance cars. Never have. My suggestion is to buy the best, newest, used truck that you can pay cash for while keeping your total vehicle values under 50% of your household income.
 
The only thing that keeps this from being a top notch 'dozer is the lack of a Cummins or CAT front license plate.
And a proper set of truck nutz <assuming it didn’t have any>. :)
 
I thought I'd seen some utterly ridiculous vehicles. Then we spent a week in Panama City Beach. Oh, my lord. I was truly astonished, and that's hard to do.
 
Not sure if technically brodozer, since stock... but hey, if we’re measuring body parts...

upload_2021-3-16_18-41-48.jpeg
 
Eh, I'll dissent on this one. I think that one is border line for "Bro Dozer" labels. It's looks to be mostly factory aside from the aftermarket wheels and small lift kit, but there is still plenty of sidewall on the tires and no absurd steel plate bumpers. No exhaust stacks cut into the floor of the bed, wheels are inside the fender flares. The factory stock Dodge (Ram) Power Wagon 2500 is about the same height/stance. I mean, it's still a lifted diesel, but I don't think it's quite brodozer status.

Have to agree.

Quite a few people out here do that to trucks and actually need the ground clearance. Maybe not quite that high but whatever floats their boat.

Plus who cares what someone blows their fun money on. This group has zero room to talk when it comes to that! LOL.

If there’s any phallic jokes to be made, telling someone you own an airplane certainly qualifies, especially if you’ve bought new avionics in the last 20 years! LOL.

Or a twin. Or a retract. Hahaha.

Pot calling the kettle black on that one.

Hell I’m probably buying a new tractor... must be a phallic joke in there somewhere... LOL. Especially because this old pansy wants a cab this time. LOL! Couldn’t care less what anybody thinks about my machinery choices.

I can admire a well done machinery modification even if it’s not what I would need or just want.

Plus I fly a high wing so ... that’s always superior to the alternative! Hahaha.

I’m sure some haters didn’t like my Dodge dually when I went to town in it, too. It had a job. It pulled a 12,500 lb trailer and another 10,000 lb trailer with ease and a hell of a lot more stable and safe than an SRW. So what if it took up two spaces in the back of the Walmart lot?

It’s a Nunya problem. As in nunya bidness.
 
Not sure if technically brodozer, since stock... but hey, if we’re measuring body parts...

View attachment 94680

I had a hand in designing this:

E84.jpg

ridiculous tires: check
lift kit: check
steel bumper: check
front winch: check
obnoxious front light bar: check



For a change, those features actually have a legitimate use. Without the taller tires and the 4in lift, the crew-cab has a really crummy breakover angle. Also, dually tires dont do well off-road. Its properly geared down to account for the ridiculous wheels and it has what amounts to medium duty truck brakes to get the everything stopped. The light-bar is for scene lighting and only comes on when the vehicle is in P.
 
Last edited:
They are too high to hit the bicyclist.

Yeah, pro level rolling coal requires angled pipes just in front of the rear wheels, one each side so you can crop dust either side of the road. And no mufflers, so it's ear splittingly loud. BTW, these yahoos love to roll coal on motorcycles as well.
 
Yeah, pro level rolling coal requires angled pipes just in front of the rear wheels, one each side so you can crop dust either side of the road. And no mufflers, so it's ear splittingly loud. BTW, these yahoos love to roll coal on motorcycles as well.
I found myself wondering the other night if there's a way to report license plate numbers to EPA enforcement or something. I'm usually a pretty live-and-let-live kind of guy, but when you're stuck driving behind one of those *******s on a rainy night it's pretty bad.
 
I found myself wondering the other night if there's a way to report license plate numbers to EPA enforcement or something. I'm usually a pretty live-and-let-live kind of guy, but when you're stuck driving behind one of those *******s on a rainy night it's pretty bad.

Not sure what being stuck driving behind them on a rainy night has to do with the EPA. Most of the "rolling coal" is a specific tune they used when near idle that produces the large amounts of smoke when you see them "roll coal". It's not generally something that happens when just driving down the road. Some tunes can be used to do it when under really heavy acceleration, but again, it's not something you'd see just driving down the highway. If the guy you were following had smoke coming out the exhaust constantly, that means his truck was broken, lol.
 
Not sure what being stuck driving behind them on a rainy night has to do with the EPA. Most of the "rolling coal" is a specific tune they used when near idle that produces the large amounts of smoke when you see them "roll coal". It's not generally something that happens when just driving down the road. Some tunes can be used to do it when under really heavy acceleration, but again, it's not something you'd see just driving down the highway. If the guy you were following had smoke coming out the exhaust constantly, that means his truck was broken, lol.
And whether it's belching black smoke only under acceleration, or belching black smoke continuously as it drives down the road, it's had its emission systems deleted, defeated, or has otherwise illegally modified. Calling the Feds would be a dick move... but then so is subjecting everyone around you to that stench.
 
Back
Top