First time flying with backseat passenger - Piper Arrow - Tips Needed

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MJR Pilot

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MJR Pilot
I fly a Piper Arrow II (PA 28R 200) - have about 500 hours experience. To date, when I'm not flying solo, I've only ever flown with one passenger in the right seat - which usually puts me about 250lbs below max gross weight. I've never flown with any passengers in the rear seats. In the next few weeks I'd like to take 2 passengers on a trip ~ 100NM - this will put the aircraft about 70lbs below max gross weight and within CG limits, but it will be the first time I'm flown with 2 passengers - one in right seat, and one in rear. Would appreciate views on how different this will be - I know should expect a longer takeoff roll and lower climb rate than I'm used to, but is there anyone else I should be aware of? Just a bit nervous since I've never had this much weight in the aircraft and I don't know how it will "feel" - I've been told to increase my rotation speed by ~ 5 kts, but any other advice or views would be much appreciated. Thank you.
 
The airplane will act like more of dog during the takeoff roll and climb, but as far as flying characteristics are concerned, there won’t really be any noticeable change.
 
If one of the passengers has a tendency to get airsick, put them in the right seat up front.
 
The heavier airplane will have longer takeoff and landing rolls and will climb slower needing a lower pitch attitude. It will be more stable overall.

The airplane with a more-aft CG will be lighter in pitch control.
 
A1Topgun said:
If one of the passengers has a tendency to get airsick, put them in the right seat up front.
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For sure. The back seat is the worst for queasy types.

In terms of flight characteristics, the CG will be further aft, which may actually make the airplane control more harmonious in pitch. You will need less aft elevator to rotate, and less nose up trim to maintain climb. Just be prepared for those changes. The flight attitude won't change that much in climb or level flight, but the pitch control inputs required will be different. Climb rate will be much lower than you are accustomed to. Otherwise, no big deal.
 
Kinda of funny timing. Today was my first day in 400 hours of having an adult in my back seat along with my younger brother in the front seat in my 91 Tiger. With fuel, I was just 15 lbs under gross (assuming nobody was lying about their weight). As @Ryan B mentions, takeoff role was sluggish and I flew in ground effect for a bit to pick up some speed, and then climbed. ROC was actually surprising - 800-900 fpm - largely because of the cold. Once in cruise things were fine although every time someone moved their butt, I had to re-trim. Landing was uneventful - just required more trim. Pay attention to weight and balance and balance fuel consumption out of the wing tanks properly and you shouldn’t have any problems. After all, that is what they were designed for.
 
My arrow seemed to cruise a little faster with weight in the back seat...otherwise just a little slower on climb out in the vertical...add 2-3 knots on your normal speeds if that makes you comfortable
 
I find that landings are more consistent with a rearward cg...easier to maintain nose-high attitude, with less stick force.
 
asicer said:
Keep the ball centered. Because of distance from the yaw center, flying sideways is more pronounced in the rear seats than the front.
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I took one of my students up for a flight with his wife in the back seat. I handed her a rolled up newspaper and told her, "if you feel your butt slide sideways, whack him in the back of the head." Best coordination lesson in the world!
 
With some planes that are underpowered there is a dramatic difference between a lighter load and more forward CG as opposed to the opposite. I wouldn’t expect this to be the case with your plane, but I have no time in them. When in doubt consult your POH and fly the plane as the manufacturer recommends.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I find that landings are more consistent with a rearward cg...easier to maintain nose-high attitude, with less stick force.
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I thought that was the case when I had a back passenger, but figured maybe it was just in my head.
 
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