Thinking about fixing my barn or building a hangar

[Howard Wilson]

Thank you Sooner and Ted, for the valuable insights and experience.
Probably going with full concrete floor. We should have to go a little steeper on the pitch than Ted's in order to blend in with the other buildings on the farm. Debating between 14' and 16' walls, enough for a second floor or mezzanine. Think we could do 2nd floor with either structure? Also will pony up for solar, as a long side, (96') will be directly South. Will have to make sure the roof structure is the right type corrugated/standing seam... and strong enough for that.
What are your thoughts on insulation and condensation? Another advantage of a taller barn, is that it will be built between the house and I-70 (300 feet away), which was put right through the farm in the '50's...
h

 

[IK04]

Why the huge overhang on the roof? Is it designed to be big enough to cover vehicles?

 

[Ted]

Thank you Sooner and Ted, for the valuable insights and experience.
Probably going with full concrete floor. We should have to go a little steeper on the pitch than Ted's in order to blend in with the other buildings on the farm. Debating between 14' and 16' walls, enough for a second floor or mezzanine. Think we could do 2nd floor with either structure? Also will pony up for solar, as a long side, (96') will be directly South. Will have to make sure the roof structure is the right type corrugated/standing seam... and strong enough for that.
What are your thoughts on insulation and condensation? Another advantage of a taller barn, is that it will be built between the house and I-70 (300 feet away), which was put right through the farm in the '50's...
h

It really depends on how you want to design your building. I went with 14' walls, and the mezzanine beams start at 14' so I have enough height for anything I could put in there (including lifts). With an 8:12 roof pitch over the main area that still gives me plenty of ceiling height above the mezzanine floor to be plenty usable. I don't get the full square footage as truly usable given the roof pitch, but I get enough of it.

Why the huge overhang on the roof? Is it designed to be big enough to cover vehicles?

Yes, I put 12' overhangs on either side as covered parking for tractors, trailers, etc. The idea behind it is that there are some implements that I would like covered but don't want to park on a concrete surface (which costs a lot more). This solves those issues and we thought added some nice style to the barn.

 

[asicer]

Yes, I put 12' overhangs on either side as covered parking for tractors, trailers, etc. The idea behind it is that there are some implements that I would like covered but don't want to park on a concrete surface (which costs a lot more). This solves those issues and we thought added some nice style to the barn.

I agree that it looks nice. Is it possible that in the future you or someone could possibly enclose them to make a 3-bay storage building?

 

[Ted]

I agree that it looks nice. Is it possible that in the future you or someone could possibly enclose them to make a 3-bay storage building?

Yes, it's completely possible to do, and one of the options I liked with going that route. For how I use the property, my thought is that I'll just keep it open since that would let me park the tractors, dozer, etc. under and have easy access. I think it should make for a cool aesthetic looking at the shop like that.

 

[Matthew]

Don’t forget the shade trees and hammock.

 

[SoonerAviator]

We keep one of the utility trailers and some 3pt implements under our lean-to (gravel base). Don't really need box blades and finish mowers inside the shop taking up space on the concrete, but we like to keep them out of the rain (and direct sun) to slow the rust and generally keep them away from prying eyes. We also put some pavers down on the end closest to the house which has a patio table and chairs for when we want to sit in the breeze/shade after working in the shop or out on the property. The outdoor covered area is great for stuff like that.

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk

 

[Ted]

Oh, solar panels. When we had our building built it was an extra $400 to put up some extra steel to support the weight of solar panels. So, we went for that. I do expect to add solar panels at some point, just not immediately.

For those interested, these are the guys who we used for our building. They ship worldwide (the name isn't just marketing) but they have a team who will build the things locally. We opted for that and are glad we did.

https://www.worldwidesteelbuildings.com/

 

[Ted]

Something I'm considering (maybe I should make a new "thinking about" thread) is HVAC for the shop.

So it's not that I'm thinking about whether or not to HVAC the shop, that is a given and has been a plan from the very beginning. They built the building with insulation and I intend to add some more once everything is finished.

But the real question is how I specifically want to go about it. As a reminder, the shop is 40x54, with a mezzanine area covering half of it. The mezzanine will be a man cave area. Three Big Ass Fans will exist to help keep air evenly distributed around the shop and aid in HVAC.

What comes to my mind as a good option is one of the 5-zone mini-splits at 60k BTUs, like this one:

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Mitsu...ux6A2mjYj0EWgx4AedjpssgV2w0ofDNBoCLFsQAvD_BwE

There are a lots of different options in terms of the BTUs for the interior units, and so I figured I'd want to have 5x 15k rather than 5x 12k units, basically so that individual zones can pump out more as appropriate. Maybe I don't need to do that. The idea would be four units on the lower level (one in each corner) and then one unit up in the mezzanine.

However the SEER ratings do go down quite a bit with the larger BTUs and more zones. Another issue is that, depending on the location and routing, there could be as much as 90 ft (or more) of copper line to get from the outdoor unit to the indoor units. So another option would be to do 2 or even 3 mini-splits, each of lower BTU ratings (but higher SEER) to improve efficiency.

Another option would be to do a traditional split system, with a unit outdoors and then an indoor air handler. What I inherently don't like about this is that I want to keep the walls clear/open for garage paraphernalia (flats, signs, etc.) and I can't think of a particularly good way to do normal ducting without taking up both floor space and wall space I want to keep open. So I do think a mini split remains a good way to go in this case.

Lastly, I'm thinking about whether I want to install this myself or pay an HVAC company to do it. I've now made a second call to the HVAC company who did my garage minisplit (granted the first call was some time ago) but nobody is responding. Given that I'm now doing this myself in the shop, I think I'm perhaps more willing to consider doing it myself. From what I can tell on videos, I'm not quite seeing a reason why this is too complicated for me to do myself, even if I'm going with a Mitsubishi (what I have in the garage). They all look fairly straightforward and idiotproof, the big part being that the main unit is precharged. While Mr. Cool has their "no vacuum pump required" aspect, I already have a vacuum pump and am fluent in automotive AC systems so I can't imagine this being too hard.

Am I missing something, or is this something I should think about (or more than think about) doing myself?

 

[Ted]

The building is officially approved. Woohoo!

Now I can start moving in.

 

[Ted]

Today the garage door installation started on the shop. They got the door up, tomorrow they'll be finishing up the rails and the motor. The door is commercial grade (at that size, that's all that was available) and it really looks like a tough, well-built unit. I'm happy with that choice.

The HVAC guys are going to start installation when the parts come in. The solution will be two mini-splits - a 3 head 42k BTU and a 2 head 36k BTU one. The 36k BTU outdoor unit won't be available until mid-April, but the rest should be ready to install in the next couple weeks. We're in the period of nice weather anyway, so not a big deal on that.

Next part that I'm working on is epoxy flooring. That's something I've always really liked in shops that have had it, and I think it would go a long way in this shop. For anyone who's done pricing before, I'd be curious as to pricing you've found.

The mezzanine construction and the epoxy floor are really the last projects that I need to do before moving things in. Some minor things I could maybe do ahead of time, but nothing really worth doing. It'll continue to take time, but at least at this point I feel like the progress being made is at a pretty quick pace and I'll be using it before long.

 

[Ted]

Some interior pics...

 

[Dave Theisen]

@ChemGuy can talk to you about epoxy floors

 

[TCABM]

..epoxy flooring...

We’ve done it twice. Two step process to scrape the concrete then drop the flakes, then epoxy over, with or without silica.

First one had zero UV protection guarantee and was $4/sq ft. Second was $6/sq ft, but had a 10-yr UV protection guarantee. The second one we did our outdoor spaces with.

Heres a pic of a 4-yr old outdoor application that gets direct sunlight from sunrise to mid-late afternoon.

The lighter color is 1/4” flake with UV resistant epoxy, while the darker is 1/8” flake and same epoxy.

There are other options, the big take away for me was what could I use to clean it with. In both applications, simple green and a low pressure sprayer were recommended and did well.

 

[Ted]

We’ve done it twice. Two step process to scrape the concrete then drop the flakes, then epoxy over, with or without silica.

First one had zero UV protection guarantee and was $4/sq ft. Second was $6/sq ft, but had a 10-yr UV protection guarantee. The second one we did our outdoor spaces with.

Heres a pic of a 4-yr old outdoor application that gets direct sunlight from sunrise to mid-late afternoon.

The lighter color is 1/4” flake with UV resistant epoxy, while the darker is 1/8” flake and same epoxy.

There are other options, the big take away for me was what could I use to clean it with. In both applications, simple green and a low pressure sprayer were recommended and did well.

That looks nice! Being indoor, I won’t need the UV protection. I also wasn’t figuring on wanting flakes.

For cleaning, a friend had suggested going for a push-behind spraying cleaner. That seems worthwhile if I could find a good price on a used one.

 

[TCABM]

That looks nice! Being indoor, I won’t need the UV protection. I also wasn’t figuring on wanting flakes.

For cleaning, a friend had suggested going for a push-behind spraying cleaner. That seems worthwhile if I could find a good price on a used one.

I’ll do some checking with the two companies I’ve done business with and see who they recommend in your area. Free quotes are a plus.

 

[jsstevens]

Having had my garage floor done with multi color gray flakes, DON'T DO IT! I like the look but I've been working on things and set a screw down "right there" and have trouble finding it again. Never mind dropping one and having it travel.

It looks very nice but you plan to use the space to work on stuff. Get a single color.

 

[Ted]

Having had my garage floor done with multi color gray flakes, DON'T DO IT! I like the look but I've been working on things and set a screw down "right there" and have trouble finding it again. Never mind dropping one and having it travel.

It looks very nice but you plan to use the space to work on stuff. Get a single color.

I was planning on solid white.

 

[ChemGuy]

@ChemGuy can talk to you about epoxy floors

Thanks Dave...i missed the updates on this thread. Nice building Ted. I finished my 30x40 pole barn shop a few weeks ago. Well i say finished but it still needs outside trim, insulation, garage door, electrical...etc

As Dave mentioned I used to formulate urethane, aspartic and some epoxy floor coatings and did side installs for several years. In fact my old company sent me a pail kit of thier newest aspartic formula to install. I put that down a couple weeks ago.

I agree if its a shop dont do flakes. Bu be advised the smooth floor is very slick, especially when wet with rain or snow. I broadcast sand into mine and it seems to help. There are still some slick spots but once I get some wear on on the floor it should be better. IF you want to save money you can DIY install these pretty easily. The only tools you really need to buy are an 18" roller frame and covers, and some spike shoes. You can rent a grinder and heads to grind the floor. Then its just a matter of mixing and rolling the floor on. You should get about 150sq ft per gallon for a good 8-10mils dry film. DIY can be done for ~$1-2/sq ft, depending on coating, chips, clearcoat etc. Epoxy will be cheaper than polyaspartic but cures slower and will fade, discolor and possibly chalk, depending on UV exposure and formula. Epoxy is usually slower so its more DIY friendly as well.

If you have any questions let me know.

 

[Everskyward]

Bu be advised the smooth floor is very slick, especially when wet with rain or snow. I broadcast sand into mine and it seems to help. There are still some slick spots but once I get some wear on on the floor it should be better.

I'm not sure what kind of floor it had, but when my employer built a new hangar, the floor was beautiful, but incredibly slippery, especially when it had water, oil, or other fluids on it, which was common in a hangar. Pretty sure you (@Ted) were in that hangar. I'm not sure that it ever got much better from the time it was new until the time I left (over 10 years). This is after being frequently cleaned with a Zamboni.

 

[Ted]

Thanks @ChemGuy

I've talked to several people who've done DIY on this and have been happy with the results. I think this falls under the category of I have too much to do and don't really enjoy doing work like this, so I'd rather pay someone. The grip is something to consider. I know the slipperyness is a consideration, and certainly we aren't without leaky vehicles. I do think a cleaner will be required to properly handle this, but that's a worthwhile investment.

 

[TCABM]

@Ted Garage Experts of Kansas City is your local installer of the company that did ours. They offer both epoxy and polyaspartic in 140 colors, including shades of white.

https://www.garageexperts.com/location/kansas-city

 

[jsstevens]

+1 on the solid white. Good choice.

+100 on the slippery especially if wet (or your shoes are) and that's with the texture of the flakes (which do add some texture). There's a reason oil, brake fluid, paint etc. simply wipe up. It's like teflon...

 

[Zeldman]

I was planning on solid white.

No, please no, not stark staring mental institution white.!!

My dad was very old school and his thought was, ''if it's white, it's done right''. Although he did have a '52 army green Plymouth, and a AF light blue '55 shoebox Ford....

I mean everything was white. I was shocked when one day I came home from college to find he had painted the 1X2 trim on the house brown. But the inside of the house was so white that a person could still read a book at night with the lights off.

Nothing is painted white in my house....

(just my observation on color choices)

 

[AKBill]

My vote would be a light gray. Guess that's the Navy coming out in me. All the hangar floors done with epoxy were Navy Gary..

 

[Ted]

Got a quote from one place. They would include putting some sand in for texture and had samples that showed the difference - I liked it and seemed like a good idea for extra traction. Had a multi stage setup, so not just putting down one layer of epoxy - get the concrete prepped, a coat on the concrete, and then 3 coats for the epoxy (with some differences in them).

Laurie likes a light grey, so that’s probably what we’d be going with. She pointed out the contrast and she has a good point with that.

Garage door is up, and I’m quite happy with it. Supposedly weighs 1500 lbs and it feels it. Wind rated door for Kansas winds - it’s probably stronger than the rest of the building.

Finally feels like some of these details are coming together.

 

[charheep]

Looking good! I may be a little jelly...

 

[jsstevens]

Got a quote from one place. They would include putting some sand in for texture and had samples that showed the difference - I liked it and seemed like a good idea for extra traction. Had a multi stage setup, so not just putting down one layer of epoxy - get the concrete prepped, a coat on the concrete, and then 3 coats for the epoxy (with some differences in them).

Texture is good, trust me!

Laurie likes a light grey, so that’s probably what we’d be going with. She pointed out the contrast and she has a good point with that.

I think you'll be very happy with that especially when you drop a fastener.

Garage door is up, and I’m quite happy with it. Supposedly weighs 1500 lbs and it feels it. Wind rated door for Kansas winds - it’s probably stronger than the rest of the building.

Finally feels like some of these details are coming together.

This left me with the mental image of a bare slab with a garage door standing at one end after a tornado...

 

[Ted]

This left me with the mental image of a bare slab with a garage door standing at one end after a tornado...

I think this door would do that.

 

[SoonerAviator]

The glare off of a glossy white surface from your overhead lighting will get annoying as well. Definitely find a light shade of gray for contrast.

 

[Ted]

We got the spiral staircase up and the mezzanine is getting started. Getting that spiral staircase up was interesting (much like the Ike we put up for our deck) but it all went fine. Currently it’s a staircase to nowhere, but the view up there really is great, it gives the exact effect I was hoping for in the design. Once the mezzanine is done, I can start moving stuff out of the garage and basement up there for storage.

No idea when the HVAC will be done, but we ended up deciding on a smooth grey epoxy floor. That’ll get done next week. Once that’s done, I can start moving the cars and bigger/heavier stuff in.

 

[Ted]

It's been a couple weeks and more progress. The mezzanine is complete, one (out of three) Big Ass Fans have been installed as well. I moved the infrared heaters from the garage to the shop too. I figure that although there will be mini-splits, it's a big area to heat up and if I keep the shop at a nominal colder temperature, I may want the IR heaters. I know I won't use them in the garage ever again with the minisplit and the garage no longer being a workshop, so it made sense to move them.

Tomorrow the epoxy floor coating goes down. I ended up going with the 4-step system that takes 4 days. It's supposedly an industrial grade coating, which I decided was going to be good for how I use a shop. I'll post pictures as I have them.

More work to do, but it's coming along well. Here's how it looked at the end of today:

 

[Ted]

Couple more from the mezzanine.

 

[Howard Wilson]

Cool! Spiral staircase?

 

[Ted]

Cool! Spiral staircase?

Yes. Aside from looking really cool (I’ve always loved the look of them) it saves on floor space which means more space for stuff. It’s a fun addition.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

which means more space for stuff.

Reminds me of a George Carlin skit.

 

[Zeldman]

Love them Big Ass Fans.!!!

And the spiral staircase.!!

 

[Ted]

Apparently I like Big Asses and I cannot lie, hence why I bought 3 Big Ass Fans.

Funny thing is they're not all that big. The two are 5' diameter, and the one put up is 7' diameter. When you consider what you normally associate with Big Ass Fans in the 10-20' diameter range, these are downright normal by comparison. They do look cool and industrial. I can't remember why I got them in black as opposed to aluminum - that might've just been the only color option. The blades are very lightweight, I can't wait to see them run.

The epoxy floor guys just left from having done the prep and the first coating. They'll supposedly be back tomorrow and Friday for the additional coats. This is exciting. They told me that I should wait at least 72 hours before doing any kind of heavier load stuff on it, but longer is better. So I'll have to talk to the contractors and see when they can come back, but in this case a bit of a delay won't be a problem for me.

One thing that's come to mind is that it would likely be a good idea to have some sort of fire alarm/smoke detection system that would alert me (via my phone, probably) to a fire. I've never done this in the garage, but somehow for the shop it strikes me as a good idea for reasons I can't fully explain.

 

[jsstevens]

[snip]
One thing that's come to mind is that it would likely be a good idea to have some sort of fire alarm/smoke detection system that would alert me (via my phone, probably) to a fire. I've never done this in the garage, but somehow for the shop it strikes me as a good idea for reasons I can't fully explain.

It's a location where you'll store all sorts of, ahem, interesting chemicals, dirty rags, etc. and will be unattended most of the time. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Ted]

It's a location where you'll store all sorts of, ahem, interesting chemicals, dirty rags, etc. and will be unattended most of the time. Makes perfect sense to me.

Now to figure out what kind...