This video raises a question about wake turbulence...

mr_happyland

mr_happyland

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mr_happyland
VASAviation posted this video today about a PA28 declaring emergency after wake turbulence encounter after flying under a 777 near JFK. First off...kudos to all involved.

My question refers to wake turbulence in cruise flight...not on the ground or landing. It's not uncommon to receive wake turbulence alerts while flying in SoCal. Often it's apparent that it's not gonna be an issue, but there are occasions when it could be entirely possible. In those situations I lower my speed, make sure my seatbelt is tight and proceed with caution. In this scenario, I haven't encountered any issues...YET. Anyone ever do a 180 to circumvent to situation?

 
There was a Cessna 150 across the way from me long ago. It was gorgeous, great paint job. They were flying and a big jet was above them. All of the sudden the turbulence got so bad that the belted right seat pilot was knocked unconscious. The left seat pilot, who was wearing a seatbelt, got thrust up so hard that the button on his baseball cap hit the roof and that there was a baseball cap button shaped dent coming out of the top of the aircraft. They flew back and landed OK, but the wings had wrinkles in the aluminum. The insurance totaled the thing.
 
mr_happyland said:
VASAviation posted this video today about a PA28 declaring emergency after wake turbulence encounter after flying under a 777 near JFK. First off...kudos to all involved.

My question refers to wake turbulence in cruise flight...not on the ground or landing. It's not uncommon to receive wake turbulence alerts while flying in SoCal. Often it's apparent that it's not gonna be an issue, but there are occasions when it could be entirely possible. In those situations I lower my speed, make sure my seatbelt is tight and proceed with caution. In this scenario, I haven't encountered any issues...YET. Anyone ever do a 180 to circumvent to situation?

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I've often wondered the same, it can be nerve-wracking flying through the Los Angeles class b air space and you see an Asiana 777 heavy cruise by above and ahead of you close enough that you can make out the windows and stuff

I'm like you, if it seems a little close for comfort I'll slow down a bit and tighten up the seat belt. I've never had an issue though
 
Having a good idea which way the wind is blowing helps. Stay upwind of the heavies track will keep you away from the wake.

Also, I've never hit the wake from an airplane I was warned about before. Hit plenty from airplanes I wasn't warned about, or even saw, though.
 
Never had an issue, but i don't mix it up with heavies very often. I get the warning for the erj's and bizjets here all the time, but never had so much as a bump from any of them.

I loved the concern in the controllers voice and how he immediately cleared the cherokee to land. I know that's their job, but it still makes me feel warm & fuzzy when a controller does a great job taking care of a ga guy.
 
Yes, I've done a 180 avoiding the wake of C17 on climb out from Travis AFB. At other times I've changed direction to about avoid this from other ac out of Travis.
 
I wish the live video at the end would have shown the aircraft in a stable frame. Was it really on fire or smoldering or what? Notice the pilot had time to exit out the right side door and take his headset and bag with him. I bring this up as a thought perhaps the fire threat was not severe, and he erring on the side of safety.

Comments are no refection on the pilot's decisions. Sounded like he performed as should.
 
Glad it's good, pilot made the right call and the controller? He's a hoss. Wish I could buy him a beer.
 
I’ve been bounced around a few times living under a major class bravo. I’ve never had an experience like this guy though. Mostly I’ve just had my head smack the roof a few times. Not much damage ( the roof is pretty solid) :).
 
Never had an issue but I fly like a deer drinks water ... cautiously!

I did see a group of C-17's coming my way as I was headed over to Tennessee a few years ago. I spotted them early in a stack formation. I didn't see them as a threat but I decided to alter my flight path a few miles to the right to make sure they had plenty of airspace to fly in. The photo below is not from my flight but shows the formation as it appeared:

iu
 
saw a c-130 in the distance doing a low level while in my pietenpol. knowing i had ZERO chance surviving a severe wake turbulence encounter, ya, i did a 180!

we used to demonstrate the power of this stuff by popping up into it in a a-4 behind another a-4 probably 50 to 100 feet away, would flip the jet upside down! kinda fun!
 
Tools said:
we used to demonstrate the power of this stuff by popping up into it in a a-4 behind another a-4 probably 50 to 100 feet away, would flip the jet upside down! kinda fun!
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We always talk about wake turbulence upsets from bigger airplanes, but it’s interesting how powerful a wake from an equal-size airplane can be if you hit it just right.
 
I try to avoid WT like a plague, when practicing approaches out here if I am behind a heavy or a jet, I will usually stay above the GS and come back again for the practice. Not too long ago I was being vectored at night for ILS and a heavy crossed my path, I asked and got a 360 to avoid the WT. might not be possible in a busy bravo close to the core ring though
 
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mr_happyland said:
VASAviation posted this video today about a PA28 declaring emergency after wake turbulence encounter after flying under a 777 near JFK. First off...kudos to all involved.

My question refers to wake turbulence in cruise flight...not on the ground or landing. It's not uncommon to receive wake turbulence alerts while flying in SoCal. Often it's apparent that it's not gonna be an issue, but there are occasions when it could be entirely possible. In those situations I lower my speed, make sure my seatbelt is tight and proceed with caution. In this scenario, I haven't encountered any issues...YET. Anyone ever do a 180 to circumvent to situation?

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AT 1:16 the controller anticipated the problem and drops a hint by giving him clearance to climb into the Bravo, may have been too late at that point. The 777 crossed that path around 1000 ft. and the PA28 was flying at 400 to stay under the bravo. A 360 for spacing at that point might have worked for him though.
 
MauleSkinner said:
We always talk about wake turbulence upsets from bigger airplanes, but it’s interesting how powerful a wake from an equal-size airplane can be if you hit it just right.
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We did steep turns at max gross in the lance during my transition training. I did one just right and it was a helluva bump. I can't imagine how hard the wake from a 777 would toss you.
 
Jim K said:
I did one just right and it was a helluva bump. I can't imagine how hard the wake from a 777 would toss you.
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I was once following a 777 on a STAR into IAH. I was flying a 737. His cruise altitude was higher than ours so he descending through our altitude on his 'Descend via' clearance. Shortly after we started our own descent, from FL320 or something close to that, we hit his wake which abruptly rolled us 60 degrees to the right. I was later able to access the radar replay of the event which showed that we were eight miles in trail at the time of the encounter.
 
In 1977, two Cessna 206 floatplanes were taking off from Bedwell Harbor. The second one rolled into the water after encountering the wake from the first.
 
I always hold for 2 minutes before TO behind the 737's in JNU. The part 135 guys flying Caravans and Cherokee 6's always seem to wave the wake turbulence advisory.

Got bumped around pretty good behind a C-17 when I was approaching JNU. I was a few miles behind them. Made a 90 degree turn and waited 10 minutes before turning back to the airport
 
The only problematic WT I ever experienced was on short final 3 minutes behind a regional jet. I didn't think it was gonna be a factor b/c of the timing, but it was. I went around.
 
I lied in my earlier post. I hit the wake of a E190 that was landing on 4R in Boston while I was landing on 4L in a PC-12. There was a right to left crosswind that day. It was pretty damn exciting, I tell you what.
 
kgruber said:
In 1977, two Cessna 206 floatplanes were taking off from Bedwell Harbor. The second one rolled into the water after encountering the wake from the first.
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I got rolled about 90 degrees close to the ground behind a Piper Pacer, and I know a few guys who have been beyond that when spraying in formation. It can get ugly quick when you’re that low.
 
NordicDave said:
I wish the live video at the end would have shown the aircraft in a stable frame. Was it really on fire or smoldering or what? Notice the pilot had time to exit out the right side door and take his headset and bag with him. I bring this up as a thought perhaps the fire threat was not severe, and he erring on the side of safety.

Comments are no refection on the pilot's decisions. Sounded like he performed as should.
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When you're in the air and the cockpit is filling with smoke, the fire threat is severe. Always.
 
Let's talk about the economic impact of putting yourself in a situation requiring an emergency landing, rolling equipment, diverting aircraft, just...because? What a ********.
 
MFE said:
Let's talk about the economic impact of putting yourself in a situation requiring an emergency landing, rolling equipment, diverting aircraft, just...because? What a ********.
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What was the cost of the emergency landing? What aircraft was diverted? What's the marginal cost of rolling the equipment vs. having it sit in the garage?
 
I've been rolled knife edge by a blackhawk while in a 152. That wasn't particularly fun.
 
MFE said:
Let's talk about the economic impact of putting yourself in a situation requiring an emergency landing, rolling equipment, diverting aircraft, just...because? What a ********.
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economic impact to the pilot zero. rolling the equipment? they are sitting there in the firehouse anyway, cost the fuel they use to get to the runway.
 
MFE said:
Let's talk about the economic impact of putting yourself in a situation requiring an emergency landing, rolling equipment, diverting aircraft, just...because? What a ********.
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I do not know about current times, but it used to be that airport emergency services budget at some airports were determined on how many times they were called out the year before. Besides, those guys and girls live to be called out.

Economic impact never crossed my mind when I was afraid I might need their talents and services. And the very few times I had the trucks roll for me, I always got out of the plane and went to introduce myself and thanked them for their job.
 
MFE said:
Let's talk about the economic impact of putting yourself in a situation requiring an emergency landing, rolling equipment, diverting aircraft, just...because? What a ********.
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Makes me wish this forum had a Thumbs down/unlike feature.

A major airport like the one has standard practices for all aircraft. Report a fire and trucks roll. This is their job.

The equipment is on field dedicated to the airport and not diverted from a burning orphanage by the municipal fire department. Everyone did the right thing in response to the emergency.

Should the GA pilot have been more careful, did ATC route too close to heavies? Doesn't matter once the plane is on fire or smoldering. Declare an emergency. At least rescue services were stationed on the field.
 
Taking off behind a Super King Air is not fun. Much worse WT + prop wash than a lot of biz jets. If I get a heavy above me, I ask for immediate lower or a vector. I'm not playing with it.
 
I was sitting in my car in Georgetown about a mile north of Boeing Field at a stoplight. A 757 went over and a few seconds later the stoplight spun violently around the cable holding it. "Oh, the humanity!"
 
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