Aerobatics in a Warrior

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DaleB said:
Forum posts don't pay.
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Exactly. Although when her husband came at me on another forum he claimed she doesn't make the money for this stuff, it's whoever owns the Youtube account that monetized it. Are Youtube pimps a thing?
 
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YKA said:
I'm guessing the shocked people are the same ones who have not done anything acro, so are of the opinion its difficult, and requires some super special pilot skills. I did a loop 20 minutes after the first take off in the Eagle, my instructor sat back not touching the controls at all. Using 50% of a planes rated G force amount is not hurting a thing.
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No, the gist of the negative reaction to some rental pilot wanting to do aerobatics in a Warrior has been covered. It's largely people who understand aerobatics and how anyone who actually WANTS to toss around a Warrior is in the high risk of F-ing up group. Any experienced aerobatic pilot knows that anyone with good experience can easily do the basic maneuvers in a plane like this with no chance of screwing up or hurting anything. That is not the situation being discussed. It sounds like you're still new enough to the aerobatic world to not have a full appreciation for how badly self taught aerobatics can end up. That's the scenario we're talking about. Those who disagree with your attitude are not necessarily the "shocked" newbies. I participated in competition aerobatics at the Unlimited level for a number of years, and have flown a lot of acro types over 25 years or so, so I have some perspective.
 
YKA said:
And just worth mentioning, hour 2 of flight instruction was my second day of flying in a school 172. That was the first day I experienced the floating pencil trick, and barrel rolls, as my instructor said I have control, check this out. That was also the day he taught me how to do both, with 2 hours in my log book, and it was his idea, not mine.
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I think we've found the source of the attitude.
 
YKA said:
And just worth mentioning, hour 2 of flight instruction was my second day of flying in a school 172. That was the first day I experienced the floating pencil trick, and barrel rolls, as my instructor said I have control, check this out. That was also the day he taught me how to do both, with 2 hours in my log book, and it was his idea, not mine.
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You should report that instructor. While some/many 172s are certified to spin in the utility category, that is not appropriate
 
I thought acro planes had oil and fuel systems that can handle being upside down, compared to non. Thats what my CFI told me at least years ago.
 
charheep said:
I thought acro planes had oil and fuel systems that can handle being upside down, compared to non. Thats what my CFI told me at least years ago.
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Plenty of acro planes lack inverted systems. Inverted systems give you oil pressure and fuel flow under sustained negative G. You can do all the basic aerobatic figures without seeing negative G, either momentary or sustained.
 
charheep said:
I thought acro planes had oil and fuel systems that can handle being upside down, compared to non. Thats what my CFI told me at least years ago.
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That's why zero G and negative G is also discouraged in some planes. I believe the PA28 I flew had that in the POH. A float style carburetor will be "fooled" in a zero or negative G situation and cut fuel flow to the engine
 
Tantalum said:
That's why zero G and negative G is also discouraged in some planes. I believe the PA28 I flew had that in the POH. A float style carburetor will be "fooled" in a zero or negative G situation and cut fuel flow to the engine
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It's fun watching acro planes with carbs do an aerobatic sequence where the engine dies for several seconds on lots of figures and the tanks spray a cloud of fuel out of the vent. Metal props easily keep windmilling and the engine instantly starts back up under positive G. Doesn't hurt anything.
 
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flhrci said:
The picture she showed of her plane upside down scares the crap out of me as a CFI. I don't blame her for being angry.
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Go fly some acro and the unnecessary fear goes away. If you close your eyes, you barely know you are in a roll. A loop however...
 
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EdFred said:
Go fly some acro and the unnecessary fear goes away. If you close your eyes, you barely know you are in a roll. A loop however...
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Let's see
  • The girl is wrong because of her delivery.
  • It's perfectly OK to fly acrobatics in a plane not designed for such maneuvers
  • There's no problem in flying flying a non-acrobatic plane that doesn't belong to you
Do I have the salient facts here?
 
EdFred said:
Go fly some acro and the unnecessary fear goes away. If you close your eyes, you barely know you are in a roll. A loop however...
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It wasn't the fear of acro, but the fear of the wing breaking off. I wan to try some acro some day.
 
Fun fact: Older aircraft type certificated under the old CAR4 (not sure when that was superseded) have no restriction on aerobatics, so it's perfectly legal to loop and roll an old J-3 Cub, T-Craft, etc... and back in the day, student pilots were expected to learn how to perform such maneuvers. Of course today the pilot should consider the age of those airframes...
 
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flhrci said:
It wasn't the fear of acro, but the fear of the wing breaking off. I wan to try some acro some day.
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Why do you think the wing would break off? A roll is a maneuver that is well within the structural (although prohibited for other reasons) limits of the air frame. If a wing is going to break off it would happen in a steep turn or very deep stall/spin recovery before it would in a roll.

Acro is a blast, do it. Its a toss up between that and seaplane on the fun-o-meter.
 
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Cap'n Jack said:
Let's see
  • The girl is wrong because of her delivery.
  • It's perfectly OK to fly acrobatics in a plane not designed for such maneuvers
  • There's no problem in flying flying a non-acrobatic plane that doesn't belong to you
Do I have the salient facts here?
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I'd say you got it figured out. I figured when I shared this video (and I have no connection to the YouTuber at all, don't even know her name) there would be a few that would point out that basic aerobatics can be done. I never expected people to personally attack her, mock her gender, and mock her outrage at someone abusing the airplane. Learned a lot about a few forum members today.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I'd say you got it figured out. I figured when I shared this video (and I have no connection to the YouTuber at all, don't even know her name) there would be a few that would point out that basic aerobatics can be done. I never expected people to personally attack her, mock her gender, and mock her outrage at someone abusing the airplane. Learned a lot about a few forum members today.
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I never stated it was legal to do aerobatics, just stated it wasn't necessarily unsafe. There was no mocking of her gender. She played that card. I'd give Jerry the exact same treatment. And I actually gave Cardinal pilot way more **** about his over-the-top videos than this one. But feel free to mis-state my position.
 
I do own a plane that is leased back. I accept that there may be issues due to the skill (or lack thereof) of some pilots, bad decision making, or that others aren't going to give the plane as much care as me. However, if I found someone being careless, deliberately abusing the aircraft or exceeding limitations, I would be as angry as Christy. I'd make sure at a minimum that the offending pilot didn't fly my plane again. I would also pursue payment for all inspections and repairs using any legal means necessary. I would also report him.
 
EdFred said:
I never stated it was legal to do aerobatics, just stated it wasn't necessarily unsafe. There was no mocking of her gender. She played that card. I'd give Jerry the exact same treatment. And I actually gave Cardinal pilot way more **** about his over-the-top videos than this one. But feel free to mis-state my position.
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Wasn't necessarily you I was pointing out, there were some comments by others that I just found uncalled for.
 
EdFred said:
Didn't watch the video, but if you keep everything under 2G what damage and endangerment is there?
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How could you possibly trust an a**hole like that saying they kept it under 2G? They have no right to be believed at all (and should have no right to their pilot license, but that's up to the FAA).
 
David Megginson said:
How could you possibly trust an a**hole like that saying they kept it under 2G? They have no right to be believed at all (and should have no right to their pilot license, but that's up to the FAA).
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I did end up watching the video and my comments on the YouTube video address that.

Certificate action and Club action should be taken but the hysterics are just ridiculous
 
EdFred said:
Why do you think the wing would break off? A roll is a maneuver that is well within the structural (although prohibited for other reasons) limits of the air frame. If a wing is going to break off it would happen in a steep turn or very deep stall/spin recovery before it would in a roll.
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Fixed this for you -

Why do you think the wing would break off? A PROPERLY PERFORMED roll is a maneuver that is well within the structural (although prohibited for other reasons) limits of the air frame. If a wing is going to break off it would happen in a steep turn, very deep stall/spin recovery before it would in a roll OR DURING THE RECOVERY AFTER A BADLY PERFORMED ROLL.

I've never done acrobatics. Maybe someday with proper instruction in an aircraft that is rated for the maneuvers.
 
EdFred said:
the hysterics are just ridiculous
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I think you're criticising the wrong person here. I'd probably react differently, because I have a different personality, but the person at fault here is 100% the dangerous idiot who did that in her plane, and it's wrong to try to deflect attention away from that by nitpicking over her reaction.
 
David Megginson said:
I think you're criticising the wrong person here. I'd probably react differently, because I have a different personality, but the person at fault here is 100% the dangerous idiot who did that in her plane, and it's wrong to try to deflect attention away from that by nitpicking over her reaction.
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I never said it was okay for the person to do that without permission. However if you are so emotional and so caring and so tied to your plane that it's going to cause you a nervous breakdown you probably shouldn't have it on lease back.

and if you're okay with it on lease back and getting pounded by student Pilots with horrible Landings then you're probably making that video just for attention.
 
EdFred said:
And as we know, gyros tumbling lead to needing a spar inspection and faux tears.
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I didn't say or even imply that. Not sure how you got there from my comment.

However, I would be royally ****ed if someone did aerobatics in my plane, not necessarily because I'm worried about structural damage (I know Super Viking can handle aerobatic flight) but because of the potential damage to the instruments that keep me alive and right side up in the clouds. My plane is my traveling machine, not an aerobatic machine. When I want to do aerobatics, I rent aerobatic planes for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
You have to be a real f'n tool to rent an airplane and do this to it. No way landings are tougher on an airframe than overloading it with prohibited aerobatic moves. You can get plastic strain that will eventually cause stress cracking issues years later. It's just dumb, this lady was correct. Anybody caught doing this should lose their ticket for a minimum of 6 months.
 
Dana said:
Fun fact: Older aircraft type certificated under the old CAR4 (not sure when that was superseded) have no restriction on aerobatics, so it's perfectly legal to loop and roll an old J-3 Cub, T-Craft, etc...
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Fun Fact 2: Bob Hoover peeled the fabric off the top of the wing of one of those while learning aerobatics.
 
EdFred said:
I never said it was okay for the person to do that without permission. However if you are so emotional and so caring and so tied to your plane that it's going to cause you a nervous breakdown you probably shouldn't have it on lease back.

and if you're okay with it on lease back and getting pounded by student Pilots with horrible Landings then you're probably making that video just for attention.
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That's what I mean. You dismiss what the perpetrator did with brief lip service (yeah, yeah, it was wrong) then go out of your way to criticise the victim's reaction in detail and try to throw doubt on her credibility. Your priorities are badly mixed up — nobody kills anyone with an emotional YouTube video.
 
Tantalum said:
By the way, I'm not condoning this, but I bet you this is way more common than people think

A few seconds of Youtube'ing found these:

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It's OK cause they got a chute! Right??? :happydance:
 
An aileron roll is not a positive G maneuver all the way around. The airplane very much knows when it is loaded to negative G's and the load envelope is smaller on the negative side.
 
jimhorner said:
I didn't say or even imply that. Not sure how you got there from my comment.

However, I would be royally ****ed if someone did aerobatics in my plane, not necessarily because I'm worried about structural damage (I know Super Viking can handle aerobatic flight) but because of the potential damage to the instruments that keep me alive and right side up in the clouds. My plane is my traveling machine, not an aerobatic machine. When I want to do aerobatics, I rent aerobatic planes for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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sarcasm doesn't always come across as it's supposed to.
 
We'll probably never know if some idiot's aerobatics 5 or 10 or more years ago started the crack in the spar of the Embry-Riddle PA-28R that crashed and killed the student and examiner—from what people are posting here, that seems to happen too often—but you can bet that many of the PA-28 owners paying to comply with the wing-spar AD right now will not hesitate to report anyone they see doing aerobatics in a PA-28 in the future, even if it's the person's own plane. After all, it probably won't be that person's own plane for ever, and I'll bet the idiot won't disclose to the next owner that they'd been doing aerobatics in it.
 
David Megginson said:
That's what I mean. You dismiss what the perpetrator did with brief lip service (yeah, yeah, it was wrong) then go out of your way to criticise the victim's reaction in detail and try to throw doubt on her credibility. Your priorities are badly mixed up — nobody kills anyone with an emotional YouTube video.
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If it was really about what happened it wouldn't have been emotionally forced, it would have just been factual in nature and not what it was - an effort to get views.
 
EdFred said:
If it was really about what happened it wouldn't have been emotionally forced, it would have just been factual in nature and not what it was - an effort to get views.
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Why are you still focusing on the victim's reaction instead of the perpetrator's actions?
 
EdFred said:
If it was really about what happened it wouldn't have been emotionally forced, it would have just been factual in nature and not what it was - an effort to get views.
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Hmmm, girls can be very different from boys EdFred, just sayin'.
 
David Megginson said:
Why are you still focusing on the victim's reaction instead of the perpetrator's actions?
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Put out a clickbait video get criticism of it being a clickbait video. if it was straight forward and not trying to just generate views I'm okay with that. Don't **** on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

Not sure why the Simps are giving her a pass.

if it was a dude pretending to cry and force emotions on this video we would all be all over him like ****
 
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