Pre purchase test flight

S

Scott MacKie

Pre-Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Messages
93
Location
Woodstock, GA
Display Name
Display name:
sbmackie
Been looking. Couple pre-buys, nothing has hit.

Got a seller who says "no test flight until contract is signed and deposit taken". This is post pre buy, and post price agreed upon. I would pay for the time in the air at a reasonable rate. I've bought and sold 4 airplanes and a once around the pattern acceptance flight was never an issue.

What say you, crowd-source? Am I being unreasonable?

Airplane is in wheel house condition, equipment, and price wise. Will require an overnight trip for inspection and acceptance due it's disntance.

Thanks
 
asking for a quick flight doesn't sound unreasonable to me, even pre-prebuy.
 
I'd pass. Seller will get his ask in this market. Just not from me. I try not to deal with with pushy people. Not even if the seller is left seat?
 
I said this a couple weeks ago when someone ask the same question. The last 18 years I have bought lots of planes.... Probably 30.
I have never test flown any of them before buying.
I have sold over 40 planes and out of those 40 I had 1 person ask to go for a flight and I took him.
I don't see a reason. You think it won't fly?
Maybe the seller don't have insurance and don't wanna be sued if something happens?
I fly uninsured......
 
I don't think it's being unreasonable at all. I wouldn't buy an aircraft without a test flight...
 
I would not have bought my plane without a test flight. He let me do it all and sat right seat. I would have been okay sitting right with him doing it all. There are some things you just can’t get from a pre-purchase (autopilot operation, radios/antennas, some gauges, boot/alcohol activation, etc).
 
Write a contingency to give you an out if you dont like how it will fly. Then if you like it proceed with pre buy. If you don't like it back out and get your deposit back...you know cause you put a contingency in for it.

But agree, in this market you have to be ready to act or you lose out. I test flew my bonanza but it was local and I knew the seller.

Will the dude not take you up, you in the right seat? I mean I get it I wouldnt want to be giving free rides to every pilot who calls but you have to give and take if you want to sell. So....find a way if its a plane you like and fits your criteria.

Edit: after re reading your post, you have done a prebuy without a signed contract? Or am I lacking in reading comprehension?? It wouldn't be the first time. Haha
 
Radar Contact said:
I would not have bought my plane without a test flight. He let me do it all and sat right seat. I would have been okay sitting right with him doing it all. There are some things you just can’t get from a pre-purchase (autopilot operation, radios/antennas, some gauges, boot/alcohol activation, etc).
Click to expand...

^^^This.

The importance of it depends, to some degree, on how complex the plane is. I agree with Radar. How do you properly test an autopilot, for example, without flying the plane?

I've only purchased one plane without flying it first, and that was the last plane I purchased, the Husky. But it only had 850 TT on it, the seller was in an unusual situation, the plane was flown regularly by the seller (300 hrs in the prior 4 years), everything was original and it's a pretty simple airplane - so a good inspection of both the logs and the airplane, a handshake deal and it was done. The Aztec, on the other hand, was completely the opposite. We tested every system and flew it more than an hour during the test flight before putting it into a pre-purchase inspection process.
 
If I had not flown my aircraft beforehand I never would have realized or known that the trim rigging was completely wrong
 
simtech said:
Write a contingency to give you an out if you dont like how it will fly. Then if you like it proceed with pre buy. If you don't like it back out and get your deposit back...you know cause you put a contingency in for it.

But agree, in this market you have to be ready to act or you lose out. I test flew my bonanza but it was local and I knew the seller.

Will the dude not take you up, you in the right seat? I mean I get it I wouldnt want to be giving free rides to every pilot who calls but you have to give and take if you want to sell. So....find a way if its a plane you like and fits your criteria.

Edit: after re reading your post, you have done a prebuy without a signed contract? Or am I lacking in reading comprehension?? It wouldn't be the first time. Haha
Click to expand...
No, I've not got any kind of contract with him yet. I've had a surrogate take a look and send some pics, I've spoken with the A/I (and seen the report) who did a pre purchase on it a month or so ago, and the owner has been forthcoming with video's, pics of log book entries, etc. I was thinking, go inspect in person, ground run, if all is well, come to terms, and sign contract "pursuant to successful check flight and acceptance by buyer" if that's what he want's. Won't sign a bill of sale until that flight is done. Heck, not concerned if the airspeed wiggles a little, just want to make sure it flies reasonably in trim, and the stuff you can't check on the ground are in working order. Like the radios will work out to wattage limitations, the transponder transponsers, the instruments are within the realm of reasonableness, etc. True, I guess there are people who would be jerk-like and use that as an excuse to back out, but isn't that one of the hazards of selling anything?
Is the order not 1)come to contractual terms; 2)pre-buy 3) address any prebuy issues to satisfaction or negation of both or either, 4)acceptance flight, 5) exhange cowry shells, sign papyrus scrolls, and take/relenquish posession?
 
I've bought planes without test flying them but they were either kits that needed to be completed or planes that were a real bargain that needed some TLC.

There is only one really valid reason I can think of for refusing a flight of an advertised flying plane that likely don't apply here and that is if it's a safety issue with weight and balance. My light sport plane has a weight limit and if a prospective buyer has the ability to block a lot of sun they might put us over gross and I don't fly like that.

But I seriously think that would be an extremely rare exception ...
 
Daleandee said:
I've bought planes without test flying them but they were either kits that needed to be completed or planes that were a real bargain that needed some TLC.

There is only one really valid reason I can think of for refusing a flight of an advertised flying plane that likely don't apply here and that is if it's a safety issue with weight and balance. My light sport plane has a weight limit and if a prospective buyer has the ability to block a lot of sun they might put us over gross and I don't fly like that.

But I seriously think that would be an extremely rare exception ...
Click to expand...
Not the case here.
 
Scott MacKie said:
Not the case here.
Click to expand...

I was pretty sure it wasn't. If the seller advertises a flying plane I can't see any reason not to take a serious prospect for a ride around the patch. As Joey would say, "Come on man! Here's the deal!"

When I used to fly & train in ultralight aircraft it seemed that everyone that wanted to be a student was >300 pounds or so. I have nothing against large folks but some planes just aren't gonna fly with that much weight in there along with a 200 pound pilot and enough fuel to make it over the tree line. If they do they fly so laden that the buyer says, "I don't want that plane ... it don't climb very well and glides like a manhole cover.":dunno:
 
Scott MacKie said:
Is the order not 1)come to contractual terms; 2)pre-buy 3) address any prebuy issues to satisfaction or negation of both or either, 4)acceptance flight, 5) exhange cowry shells, sign papyrus scrolls, and take/relenquish posession?
Click to expand...

Yep I agree with that fully. Not saying you shouldn't be able to test flight, because you should! But I think his thinking is likely you're tire kicker and he doesn't want to give free rides unless you're serious hence contract and deposit. Not saying he is right but might have to play his game if its a plane you really want.

Is it a rare plane? Or a common airframe?
 
simtech said:
Yep I agree with that fully. Not saying you shouldn't be able to test flight, because you should! But I think his thinking is likely you're tire kicker and he doesn't want to give free rides unless you're serious hence contract and deposit. Not saying he is right but might have to play his game if its a plane you really want.

Is it a rare plane? Or a common airframe?
Click to expand...
Not rare. I will write words to the effect of "deposit is refundable to buyer if the following manifests itself on the acceptance flight" or some such in purchase contract.
 
Scott MacKie said:
Got a seller who says "no test flight until contract is signed and deposit taken". This is post pre buy, and post price agreed upon. I would pay for the time in the air at a reasonable rate.
Click to expand...
I wonder what the contract says. It's not like they are uniform or fixed in stone, but most of the light aircraft ones I've seen are like real estate contracts where there is a buyer "out" with deposit refunded based on being dissatisfied with condition after inspection, including a test flight. Sometimes it's based on some objective criteria; often it's subjective. With a contract like that, I would expect a buyer to "show me the money" - that he has the means - and sign before a test flight.
 
If it’s the standard 2/4 seater, no reason at all, especially with seller in left seat, landing, whatever. He doesn’t even have to explain everything, just basically taking you for a ride.

I’ve only bought 3 planes over the years, ‘test flown’ the 1st one only, weather/distance factors. Inspection condition, engine years, hours & routine use are biggies. I don’t care for 20 year old engine overhauls when priced at ‘only 300 engine hours’.
 
I don't see what good the "airplane ride" is, other than to prove that it is in fact an airplane.

I try to work all of the equipment hdg/alt/preselect on the way up, I'll fly a GPS triangle at a decent altitude (usually 8-10k) to see how the thing averages out, then shoot a coupled approach on the way back in. Takes about 30-45 minutes. If the plane has a heavy wing, say, from an undiscovered repair, or is just rigged poorly and flies 10kt slow, it'll show up during this sort of flight.

I do this before the mechanical inspection, so I know where to look closer. :D Like when the dentist pokes at the teeth first looking for weaknesses.

A seller not wanting to go flying would be an oddity to me unless the plane was uninsured as mentioned, or pilot lost medical and it was on not-in-motion cover. If the plane was uninsured, I would wonder why, but it would not sway a purchase decision if the plane was up to scratch. I'd be looking for signs of reckless thrift elsewhere though. Plane sellers and buyers are strange and emotional creatures though, and wont to do strange things sometimes.
 
schmookeeg said:
I don't see what good the "airplane ride" is, other than to prove that it is in fact an airplane.

I try to work all of the equipment hdg/alt/preselect on the way up, I'll fly a GPS triangle at a decent altitude (usually 8-10k) to see how the thing averages out, then shoot a coupled approach on the way back in. Takes about 30-45 minutes. If the plane has a heavy wing, say, from an undiscovered repair, or is just rigged poorly and flies 10kt slow, it'll show up during this sort of flight.

I do this before the mechanical inspection, so I know where to look closer. :D Like when the dentist pokes at the teeth first looking for weaknesses.

A seller not wanting to go flying would be an oddity to me unless the plane was uninsured as mentioned, or pilot lost medical and it was on not-in-motion cover. If the plane was uninsured, I would wonder why, but it would not sway a purchase decision if the plane was up to scratch. I'd be looking for signs of reckless thrift elsewhere though. Plane sellers and buyers are strange and emotional creatures though, and wont to do strange things sometimes.
Click to expand...
I don't quite get this post. As I read it, you are saying the "airplane ride" (if that is what you are calling a test flight) is not important; then you say you do a test flight. Maybe I'm missing something. All I'm saying is, in the simple airplane I'm looking at, it would be nice to check rigging, radio's, and instruments in a slow trip around the pattern including maybe a check in with approach.
 
Scott MacKie said:
I don't quite get this post. As I read it, you are saying the "airplane ride" (if that is what you are calling a test flight) is not important; then you say you do a test flight. Maybe I'm missing something. All I'm saying is, in the simple airplane I'm looking at, it would be nice to check rigging, radio's, and instruments in a slow trip around the pattern including maybe a check in with approach.
Click to expand...

i think he meant that a quick ride around the pattern isn’t of much value, whereas a true test flight, with enough time to thoroughly test anything you can’t get on the ground, is valuable.
 
Fair enough. With welded gear and stiff prop, gravity feed tanks, one comm radio and a transponder, basic VFR instruments, and at an airfield that has an approach facility 40 miles away, I would think a 10 minute hop will be sufficient.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top