Dead reckoning, Foreflight, GPS for cross country?

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4RNB

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4RNB
I expect that this week will bring on my first cross country flying. I am not sure what is allowed for the checkride. The plane I am in is capable, has an autopilot and IFR GPS with WaaS. I'm also trying to get foreflight going. What of these are allowed for the checkride? I want to be familiar with them all but as a student want to focus on what is allowed for the test?
Can I use autopilot?
Can I use foreflight?
Is dead reckoning required?
Is use of a VOR required?
If autopilot is not allowed, is using the GPS allowed?

Thanks.
 
It’s expected that you know how to use the equipment in the aircraft. You will not necessarily have to demonstrate using all of the equipment. You will have to demonstrate the skills spelled out in the ACS, of which dead reckoning is one. I would expect to experience a simulated failure of one or all of the items you mention during the checkride.

imo it simplifies the checkride to not use the equipment unless asked to demonstrate something specific. You want to be able to fly without all that stuff anyway, so just learn how now. Personally, I refused to use gps at all during my training (except as a backup in my pocket just in case, but it never came to that) to be sure I was confident without it.
 
Many, many, MANY folks I have talked to have used GPS on their checkride. It is sorted expected by a lot of DPEs. Not saying you shouldn't know your landmarks during your flight, but bringing FF or GP with you is not a sin.
 
I would suggest hand flying your xc. At this stage you need the practice of holding the course and compensating for wind. Know how to use the A/P obviously, but that's easy to learn.*

My CFI didn't want me to use an EFB, so I learned with paper charts, but I don't think they will exist much longer. Probably wise to learn an EFB, but I'd also suggest turning off the "own ship" or GPS so you can learn to track your position by looking out the window and tuning VOR's, both of which you'll be expected to do on the checkride. Again, learning to follow the magenta line is easy, so learn the hard way first.

Absolutely learn to use the built in GPS. You'll be expected to know how to use it, and you'll use it every flight once you get your ticket. Get familiar with it. Learn to navigate by VOR as well though. On my checkride we did our hood work, and then he told me to navigate us back home using only the VOR while still under the hood. I dialed in the vor, got a heading, and turned that way, and he was satisfied.

*disclaimer: I might be biased as my training plane didn't have an autopilot.
 
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I'm in the middle of obtaining my PPL, but the flying club I belong to has their own DPE. Another fella just finished his check ride and I asked him what was allowed. Yes, for sure on the dead reckoning and pilotage... being able to run the E6B, obtain GS and then calc an ETA, etc. As far as GPS, EFB and the like - this DPE allowed the use of the plane's electronics (GPS onboard) but if you brought or were using an EFB (like Foreflight), you'd need to 'clear' your flight plan from it so that it was basically being used as a map (although your GPS position was showing up on the map). One option might be to contact the DPE you intend to use and see if he/she will provide any further insight.
 
Ultimately you need to know how to do with and how to do without. It's your CFI's job to work toward that goal. And one CFI's way of meeting that goal will be different than on other's.

The same goes for checkrides. The Private ACS navigation tasks contemplate both DR/Pilotage and the use of navigation equipment, just as it always has. How your DPE approaches that mix is often the subject of local pilot, flight school, and instructor knowledge.

IOW, this is a question for your CFI. All we can do is guess.
 
When you get close to checkride , check with your DPE. Another Q to ask is can you use electronic charts.

In my case, my DPE said use and do whatever you will in a real cross country with family onboard.

So I used GPS, EFB and VOR and everything else at my disposal during the ride. Made a couple of checkpoint to point out to in case the GPS failed

I had used AP to show him that I know how to use it and that I am aware that the AP could kill me.

Having said all that, hand fly as much as you can in your XC. Use AP in high workload environments if you would like.
 
@midlifeflyer nailed it by saying you need to ask your CFI how to prep for the practical.

I'll give one more piece of advice that helped me - learn it all. Learn as much as you can about how to navigate using a sectional (honestly it doesn't matter if it's a sectional rendered by FF or a paper chart). Learn how to create a nav log. Learn how to use the nav log along with the sectional to track your progress and check off waypoints along your route (do this with your CFI on a cross country for practice). If your aircraft has an autopilot and GPS, familiarize yourself with their use. Maybe not the IFR procedures and features, but I would learn how to enter waypoints into the GPS, how to use the GPS CDI for cross track error (like on a 430w), how to use the direct to feature. For autopilot, I would learn how to at least use the HDG mode. You may not be required to demonstrate knowledge of this equipment on your practical, but it is good to know how to use especially on your solo XC and your trips out to the practice area after your CFI signs you of for solo flight.

For my private practical exam, we only did about ten minutes of tracking to a VOR (you should definitely learn this if you don't know already), then the DPE gave me a heading and altitude to follow to the practice area. I'm sure he was paying attention to how I was holding heading/altitude using VFR flying techniques (looking out the window!!). Never turned the AP on. Rest of the ride was demonstrating the maneuvers described int he ACS (please please get a copy of this and understand what you will be expected to do... and again ask your CFI!). So no automation was needed.

Did I use Foreflight and GPS and autopilot on my long XC? You bet I did. Do I use those things in real life even when flying VFR? You bet. Again, learn it all. That way there won't be any surprises. It will make you more confident. It will also make you a better real world pilot.

To close - Get with your CFI and ask these questions. And good luck!
 
Put away foreflight except as a replacement for a paper chart. Its a VFR checkride, so your primary should be pilotage. You will probably identify the first two waypoints and show that you’re tracking to them and then you’ll do something else like a divert.

I wouldn’t get into the auto pilot unless asked. Using it as primary gives the dpe a chance to doubt other skills.
 
It sounds like you are completing the XC stage check. I would expect hand flying, dead reckoning, no GPS, no EFB position, a simulated emergency, a diversion, and lost procedures. You will get the same thing on the practical test.
 
Start looking at the ACS. Everything you need is in there. Basically, you’ll need to know how to do everything that you just asked.
 
Anything you have in the plane is fair game for the examiner to ask about. Anything you have can also be failed. You better know it all.
I took my private checkride in a ragged out flight school 152 (and this predates GPS) so I didn't really have any options (one VOR no GS).

For my instrument, I had a full up WAAS GPS with MFD and autopilot. I put the autopilot on while setting up for the next approach. I flew all the approaches by hand.
I was about halfway through the partial panel approach (a GPS approach) when the examiner asked if my autopilot worked when the vacuum was out (I told him it did, and so did the HSI he covered up, but that was another issue). He says "Well, why don't you use it then?" So I did. It was a gusty day and after a few more minutes he suggested maybe I could do a better job hand flying it.
 
4RNB said:
I expect that this week will bring on my first cross country flying. I am not sure what is allowed for the checkride. The plane I am in is capable, has an autopilot and IFR GPS with WaaS. I'm also trying to get foreflight going. What of these are allowed for the checkride? I want to be familiar with them all but as a student want to focus on what is allowed for the test?
Can I use autopilot?
Can I use foreflight?
Is dead reckoning required?
Is use of a VOR required?
If autopilot is not allowed, is using the GPS allowed?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

You should know how to use all of them. But you should also know how to fly without these. Your examiner will be looking to see if you can adapt to different situation and different airplanes. Besides, dead reckoning without a GPS an autopilot is fun. Don't forget that flying is supposed to be fun. If you want the airplane to fly itself, it is cheaper to take a coach seat in an airbus.
 
If you were my student, you would be going into your checkride knowing how to use all tools onboard, including dead reckoning, VOR navigation, paper charts. I don’t go on what the DPE allows or what his normal checkride usually consists of. You will know it all before I give an endorsement.
 
flyingron said:
I took my private checkride in a ragged out flight school 152 (and this predates GPS) so I didn't really have any options (one VOR no GS).
Click to expand...
You brought back a memory. Sounds like mine, except it was a Tomahawk. I remember one task in particular. We were at the end of the hoodwork. Before I took off the hood, he had me triangulate my position with the single VOR and point to it on the (paper, of course) sectional.
 
What a great reason! Much more positive than others I’ve heard.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You brought back a memory. Sounds like mine, except it was a Tomahawk. I remember one task in particular. We were at the end of the hoodwork. Before I took off the hood, he had me triangulate my position with the single VOR and point to it on the (paper, of course) sectional.
Click to expand...
I think asking a student to find their location was a PTS item in the day. I don't know if it still is.
 
I always suggest planning cross-countries the old fashioned way and backing up with the GPS and electronic charts. You can develop both sets of skills and confidence in using them in parallel, and on the check ride you won't have to worry if the DPE "fails" your GPS.
 
flyingron said:
I think asking a student to find their location was a PTS item in the day. I don't know if it still is.
Click to expand...
I had to do that on my PP checkride three years ago. Used a sectional to identify a lake with a distinctive shape and a dam. "That lake is this one on the chart, dam is here, so we are about here".
 
The Private Pilot ACS specifically requires navigating using pilotage and dead reckoning. Hopefully, you had plenty of practice with that doing your solo cross-country flights.
 
I've a copy of the ACS test standards. Have not delved into them.
 
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