Remedy Unauthorized Maintenance and Repairs on Certified Aircraft?

MarkH

MarkH

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MarkH
When I was shopping for my plane, I came across a Piper Colt that was 5 years out of annual, but being flown a couple times a week. I reflexively dismissed it because I was not looking for a project (you'd never guess that with how much time the Yankee has spent on the ground). But I have been curious about it ever since.

It was clearly maintained and repaired over the last 5 years, I didn't get far enough to see the logs (I passed on it as soon as I found out it was out of annual).

What is the process to remedy unauthorized owner repairs?
 
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Unauthorized or undocumented?

Either way, it is a new annual inspection, and if there is record (for some reason) of a repair done without proper A&P or I/A (as needed) approval, then the IA signing the new annual needs to somehow verify the work was done using parts and methods that are correct. If they can't verify that, the work may need to be redone. If they can verify the parts and methods used were correct, then they can sign it off as airworthy.
 
MarkH said:
When I was shopping for my plane, I came across a Piper Colt that was 5 years out of annual, but being flown a couple times a week. I reflexively dismissed it because I was not looking for a project (you'd never guess that with how much time the Yankee has spent on the ground). But I have been curious about it ever since.

It was clearly maintained and repaired over the last 5 years, I didn't get far enough to see the logs (I passed on it as soon as I found out it was out of annual).

What is the process to remedy unauthorized owner repairs?
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Do an annual, and then do the repairs as needed.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Unauthorized or undocumented?

Either way, it is a new annual inspection, and if there is record (for some reason) of a repair done without proper A&P or I/A (as needed) approval, then the IA signing the new annual needs to somehow verify the work was done using parts and methods that are correct. If they can't verify that, the work may need to be redone. If they can verify the parts and methods used were correct, then they can sign it off as airworthy.
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The A&P-IA need not know, as long the repairs are correctly done, they probably would not notice.
The IA buys all discrepancies the day they sign the annual off as airworthy.
 
OBTW.. colt is a nice aircraft. but under powered
 
MarkH said:
What is the process to remedy unauthorized owner repairs?
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Depends on the level of repair/alteration. In some extensive cases it's better to perform a conformity inspection 1st to see what you got then correct the items and have an an annual performed. However, in most cases simply having a mechanic review/update/sign off the "unauthorized repairs" will take care of it.
 
Meh....every sign off comes with this risk. Who ever does the inspection better know Colts. I do one.... it’s a simple aircraft.

but....it prolly needs a tail recover and a strut or two.
 
Can you give an example of the "Repair"?

How do you know it was "Unauthorized" if you did not see Logs?

The Owner can do just about everything ( except actual Inspection & signing it)

under the supervision of the A & P that signs for the task .

Preventative Maintenance is also quite broad on something like a Colt.

Bungee replace, paint entire aircraft, and Upholstery renewal are examples.
 
Magman said:
Can you give an example of the "Repair"?

How do you know it was "Unauthorized" if you did not see Logs?
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In all honesty, I don't. But if it was flying for 5 years without an Annual, I assume that the paperwork was not kosher. For example, he alluded to replacing the tires a couple months before putting it up for sale (which I know would fall under pilot maintenance), a cylinder due to low compression (which I can't see falling under pilot maintenance), and gave me the date of the last annual (6 years prior), while mentioning that it was flying regularly.

It may have been entirely legal, but based on the description, this is the impression I had. I was scared away by it, but I was hesitant to post about it because I didn't want to risk bringing attention to something I didn't understand.
Now that over a year has passed, I am asking more "What if I had purchased a plane that was in the situation that I inferred from this" more than "What if I had bought this plane", because I do not know the situation.

Tom-D said:
The A&P-IA need not know, as long the repairs are correctly done, they probably would not notice.
The IA buys all discrepancies the day they sign the annual off as airworthy.
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This was what I understood based on my research, but I was having trouble believing it could be that simple. Thank you.
 
Borescope the inside of the pistons to see if the owner welded slag into them and then drilled it out (leaving sharp points in the holes) to mass balance them.o_O

fortunately the gear collapsed (pilot induced, I think) and the engine had to be torn down before the engine became an issue. ;)
 
My take is you made the CORRECT decision.

I work with a lot of Owners but don't call me late for the party.

Either I'm in at start or I'm out.

I have heard; " It's ready for you to sign"!!

Translation = RUN !


Incidentally I recall a mag article comparing a Colt with a Yankee many years ago.

Interesting!!
 
I bought an airplane years ago that hadn’t had an annual in 5 or 6 years. The owner wasn't too concerned with “paperwork” and legality, a “bootleg” kinda guy. All preventive maintenance was done and documented in the logs, just no annuals. The airplane was pristine and went thru pre buy smoother than any other airplane I have purchased. It was a strange thing that they didn’t annual it but maintained it perfectly, cant explain it. On pre buy we also did an annual and got all inspections and AD search documented. That was a great airplane. I have seen some “well maintained and documented” airplanes that are a breath away from junk. Strange to say the least.
 
Think there was a possibility that the Annual entry was on stickers or Work Orders

and not Logbook?
 
I walked away from one I was looking at due to undocumented repairs. Broker asked me why I passed and I mentioned the large pop riveted scab patch on the fuselage. Nothing in the books about it. Dead silence from the broker and then he hung up on me.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Unauthorized or undocumented?

Either way, it is a new annual inspection, and if there is record (for some reason) of a repair done without proper A&P or I/A (as needed) approval, then the IA signing the new annual needs to somehow verify the work was done using parts and methods that are correct. If they can't verify that, the work may need to be redone. If they can verify the parts and methods used were correct, then they can sign it off as airworthy.
Click to expand...
I agree this is what it comes down to. Depending on the improper maintenance or repair, a good mechanic might spot it (seen that one). If not, perhaps a basic annual with no discrepancy report might even suffice "legally." But I knew things leading me to suspect improprieties, I would hope self-preservation would kick in and I'd want more than that.
 
MarkH said:
...he alluded to replacing ... a cylinder due to low compression...
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I wouldn't care if he was a professional race car engine builder by trade, this would signal to me such a lack of respect for aviation standards that I'd pass too. But I really liked the Colt back when I taught primary students. It had a rugged gear that could handle student abuse and, contrary to Tom D's "underpowered" assessment, it had plenty enough power to pull uphill and over trees and over the rising terrain beyond the 2200' runway. Cessna 150s couldn't do it, that's why the school owner used Colts instead.
 
My first plane was a Colt. Loved it. Great first plane. Agree that it wasn't underpowered. Best thing about it was you could fit two fairly big people in it, still be comfortable, be below GW and have performance that was better than a c-150. The Colt doesn't have flaps so one does get to practice side slips a lot. Also, like the other short wing Pipers, they don't glide so well. Parts are easy to come by.

The Colts/Tri-Pacers can also be converted to a tail dragger. I'd buy a tail wheel Colt in a heartbeat.
 
Take if for a test flight if it flies it is airworthy if not well not so much...:goofy::rofl:
 
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