Cheap Annual

brien23

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Brien
For those that get the 15 minute Annual and work on their plane themselves is that a bad thing. It's not like those planes are causing most of the accidents or killing most of the pilots. Most GA aircraft can take a lot of, or lack of preventative maintenance. Worn out bushings in landing gear, flight controls, engine compartment, worn and tattered electrical, magnetos that look like they have never seen the inside, you have two so if one stops so what the engine keeps running. At some point these planes can never be brought back to show stoppers, the cost would be more than twice as much as a nice one, if they can be brought back at all. I am sure all of us have seen junk planes flying around and wonder who would do that, and those that do can see no problem and go on their way with money saved for that $100 Hamburger and gas.
 
I charge the same for annuals, they are all cheap.
 
The price of annual inspection is irrelevant, most owners / A&P-IA don't know how much they charge/pay.

It's all charged at one rate.
 
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For those that get the 15 minute Annual and work on their plane themselves is that a bad thing. It's not like those planes are causing most of the accidents or killing most of the pilots. Most GA aircraft can take a lot of, or lack of preventative maintenance. Worn out bushings in landing gear, flight controls, engine compartment, worn and tattered electrical, magnetos that look like they have never seen the inside, you have two so if one stops so what the engine keeps running. At some point these planes can never be brought back to show stoppers, the cost would be more than twice as much as a nice one, if they can be brought back at all. I am sure all of us have seen junk planes flying around and wonder who would do that, and those that do can see no problem and go on their way with money saved for that $100 Hamburger and gas.

I don't think any of the mass produced airplanes from the 1960s/70s were intended to last this long. Piper and Cessna produced them in quantity and I think the business model back then was somewhat similar to the automotive industry...get owners to replace with new, or upgrade to a higher performance model every few years.

As a personal philosophy I try to maintain my airplanes meticulously - after all it's my azz in the seat on every flight. But when I do any work on my own airplanes that experience leaves no doubt there's nothing much about the way they are put together that suggests they were intended to be extensively maintained with any efficiency or ease, over decades. There's certain things on the Aztec that you can't even get to without drilling out rivets and removing sheet metal panels.

I remain amazed at the lengths to which we go to keep these things in the air now - especially repairs to aging airframes to deal with cracks and corrosion.

Maybe the folks that are treating them as "throwaways" after they wear them out have just come full circle to the original intent?
Just sayin' :D
 
I don't think any of the mass produced airplanes from the 1960s/70s were intended to last this long. Piper and Cessna produced them in quantity and I think the business model back then was somewhat similar to the automotive industry...get owners to replace with new, or upgrade to a higher performance model every few years.

As a personal philosophy I try to maintain my airplanes meticulously - after all it's my azz in the seat on every flight. But when I do any work on my own airplanes that experience leaves no doubt there's nothing much about the way they are put together that suggests they were intended to be extensively maintained with any efficiency or ease, over decades. There's certain things on the Aztec that you can't even get to without drilling out rivets and removing sheet metal panels.

I remain amazed at the lengths to which we go to keep these things in the air now - especially repairs to aging airframes to deal with cracks and corrosion.

Maybe the folks that are treating them as "throwaways" after they wear them out have just come full circle to the original intent?
Just sayin' :D
I'd add this, way to many pilots are buying aircraft to train in. and their sole idea is to simply use the aircraft until it becomes too expensive to keep it.
 
I don't think any of the mass produced airplanes from the 1960s/70s were intended to last this long. Piper and Cessna produced them in quantity and I think the business model back then was somewhat similar to the automotive industry...get owners to replace with new, or upgrade to a higher performance model every few years.

Exactly.
 
For those that get the 15 minute Annual and work on their plane themselves is that a bad thing.
This brings up the question of, are club aircraft maintained better than private owned?
 
This brings up the question of, are club aircraft maintained better than private owned?

We have 13 Cessna 172s (12 'N' models and one 'S') in our flying club flight training unit. They average 900 hours a year each. Judging by what I see in the comparable privately owned fleet of 172s on my airport the answer would be Yes.
 
Hangar Fairies can fix the simple menial tasks like worn & loose hardware, etc. The hardest part is for said fairy to actually get the motivation to actually do the work and then do it by the book.

Lots of A&P’s act tough and cry out about liability but truly they’re only responsible until the logbook entry’s wet signature dries up.

I’d curious it read/hear stories of epic fairy work. Anyone have any anecdotes to tell?
 
Hangar Fairies can fix the simple menial tasks like worn & loose hardware, etc. The hardest part is for said fairy to actually get the motivation to actually do the work and then do it by the book.

Lots of A&P’s act tough and cry out about liability but truly they’re only responsible until the logbook entry’s wet signature dries up.

I’d curious it read/hear stories of epic fairy work. Anyone have any anecdotes to tell?

I watched a maintenance fairy change one of the cables in his landing gear on his Baron, without putting it on jacks or even opening a manual. How did he test it? He took it around the pattern. And landed gear up when the gear failed to extend.

But he sure saved money having the maintenance fairy do the work.
 
I watched a maintenance fairy change one of the cables in his landing gear on his Baron, without putting it on jacks or even opening a manual. How did he test it? He took it around the pattern. And landed gear up when the gear failed to extend.

But he sure saved money having the maintenance fairy do the work.
you watched....and didn't say anything? o_O:D
 
Hangar Fairies can fix the simple menial tasks like worn & loose hardware, etc. The hardest part is for said fairy to actually get the motivation to actually do the work and then do it by the book.

Lots of A&P’s act tough and cry out about liability but truly they’re only responsible until the logbook entry’s wet signature dries up.

I’d curious it read/hear stories of epic fairy work. Anyone have any anecdotes to tell?
Hangar neighbor does all kinds of maintenance he shouldn’t. He’s an engineer, and pretty handy so you can’t tell him anything, and I’ve tried. SkyGod Syndrome, and cheap. He’s no A&P. I’ve seen him do everything from replacing/upgrading his prop, replaced jugs, mags, windshield, control cables, landing gear. He forgot to reinstall a mag hardness once and then spent the next few days trying to figure out why it was running rough. The rust i saw when he had the jugs off was unbelievable, and he wants me to sign him off under my A&P but I just laugh every time. It’s been years since I’ve worked as an A&P but I have enough sense to still know when to NOT sign something off. He has some IA come around to pencil whip his logs now and then months after the work is completed.
 
Hangar Fairies can fix the simple menial tasks like worn & loose hardware, etc. The hardest part is for said fairy to actually get the motivation to actually do the work and then do it by the book. Lots of A&P’s act tough and cry out about liability but truly they’re only responsible until the logbook entry’s wet signature dries up.
Ha. Funny thing about hangar fairies, they have a tendency to mess with the same things or in the same areas after said ink dries. So when further scrutiny does happen, usually months/year later, the 1st person called is person who signed in ink instead of the fairy. Without any fairy signature the liability falls directly back to that last applicable signature as Part 43 is a performance standard which regulates how a job is performed. And while an IA annual signature is only valid for the aircraft's condition prior to the date he signs at, he’s still held accountable/liable for how he performed the annual beyond that date or until that work is repeated. So in most cases, the liability for work performed under Part 43 does not expire once the ink dries. It is what it is.;)
I’d curious it read/hear stories of epic fairy work. Anyone have any anecdotes to tell?
One of my favorite fairy tales…. Once upon a time, there was an owner fairy who paid to have a 100hr performed on his aircraft (N12345) to get an idea what was wrong before he listed it for sale. The aircraft was a bit rough but airworthy and the inspection generated a list of about a dozen items that should to be addressed. One of the items listed was all the plugs were eroded to limits.

Fast forward 4 months and that APIA who performed the 100hr receives a call from an out of state FSDO inquiring how he missed the loose plugs on N12345 during his 100hr as his signature was the last one in the book. After several hours of banter and an exchange of the 100hr discrepancy list, it was determined the plugs were not the ones he inspected as the current ones were all new.

From there, that FSDO called the APIA’s FSDO who with the help of the APIA tracked down the purchase invoice for those new plugs installed on N12345. When the fairy was confronted with the evidence, he hemmed and hawed at first trying the classic, I’m a "hobbyist" owner/fairy and don’t know about all the FARs or how to find them route.

Well, long story short, once the FSDO Wizard explained that any fairy performing work on a TC’d aircraft without a signature not only violated Part 43, but also set up the owner to be held on a violation of Part 91 Subpart E and operating an aircraft with an invalid AWC, the owner/fairy copped a plea. He was counseled on his actions and given a “letter in his file.”

Unfortunately, while the APIA was out 8hrs of billable time, the fairy didn’t live happily forever as after this episode he had to fly out of state to find someone who would work on/annual his “new” aircraft. Last I heard the fairy’s wife forced him out of aviation due to the excessive mx costs. Karma over a little hangar fairy dust on simple set of plugs.:rolleyes:

The End.
 
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The funny part about the above is that replacing spark plugs is one of the things that the owner can legally sign off in the logbook as "preventive maintenance".
 
Folks that strap themselves to poorly maintained sh*tboxes and fly around like the consequences are inconsequential are truly baffling to me. And yet it happens all over the place.

To me, aviation is an exercise in risk mitigation in order to extract the benefits with the lowest cost in terms of chance of fiery death. One cannot accomplish this with $200 annuals.
 
Folks that strap themselves to poorly maintained sh*tboxes and fly around like the consequences are inconsequential are truly baffling to me. And yet it happens all over the place.

To me, aviation is an exercise in risk mitigation in order to extract the benefits with the lowest cost in terms of chance of fiery death. One cannot accomplish this with $200 annuals.

I once knew a owner that operated a 0-300/172 that had 250/250 mag drops and 3400 hours never overhauled.
he said this was normal..
 
No... at that time wasn't an IA.
Would you have signed the annual if you had your IA?
did you realize an engine can be maintained for ever without an overhaul?
Yes, depending on type ops. Knew a pipeline contractor who consistently got 2600+ hrs out of his engines save for a couple lemons with preventative mx the key ingredient. I believe his highest was north of 3200 hrs but wear and tear eventually catch up.;)
 
Would you have signed the annual if you had your IA?

Yes, depending on type ops. Knew a pipeline contractor who consistently got 2600+ hrs out of his engines save for a couple lemons with preventative mx the key ingredient. I believe his highest was north of 3200 hrs but wear and tear eventually catch up.;)

I have two operators that dissemble their engine every year. the fly fish spotting one has 6000+ TTSN. it never gets signed as overhaul even though every thing in the engine has been replaced, except the data tag.
Ot doesn't happen often, but it is legal as it gets.
 
Is spotting legal again?

I wrenched on some 172s doing that.

interesting how they are/ were flown.
 
I watched a maintenance fairy change one of the cables in his landing gear on his Baron, without putting it on jacks or even opening a manual. How did he test it? He took it around the pattern. And landed gear up when the gear failed to extend.

But he sure saved money having the maintenance fairy do the work.

If it was fully insured this could have been an acceptable risk by the operator. Too bad we all have to pay these morons.
 
I have this friend who's old bird couldn't pass compression tests....rings were leaking and most were in the 20-30 psi range. He spent a few weeks soaking them in a redneck mixture of Marvel's Mystery and kerosene. After a few trys.....they all magically came up into the mid 70's..... lol :D
 
I have this friend who's old bird couldn't pass compression tests....rings were leaking and most were in the 20-30 psi range. He spent a few weeks soaking them in a redneck mixture of Marvel's Mystery and kerosene. After a few trys.....they all magically came up into the mid 70's..... lol :D
It is quicker to use 100 weight.
 
I’m guilty of doing some “ $1.95 Annuals”.

Not sure if that qualifies as cheap.

The $1.95 is the price of a key and putting me on the Insurance.

Sort of a partner with no equity.

Did this with one guy for 10 years.

I had various airplanes in that time but the agreement worked

well for both of us.

Continued till he lost Med and sold airplane.

Also heard “ when the project is done you can fly it too”.

Right: until it’s for sale next week.
 
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