1st Class Medical with 2 Alcohol incidents

  • Thread starter Austin Ferreira
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MikeNY said:
While working with HIMS AME for medical issues, remember options for some activities remain available.

Consider a discovery flight, lesson(s) with a flight instructor, study for knowledge test, checking sport pilot certificate, etc.

If aviation is described as a huge passion, not having a medical (or, not yet) isn’t an obstacle to begin, to see first-hand whether flying (in training environment) matches expectations.

Also might consider joining an aviation community; or setup a PoA forum profile. Many have and will offer encouragement.
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Hey Mike, thanks for your time!

I’m about 90% of the way through ground school, I should be ready to schedule the knowledge test by the beginning of next week or so.

I was actually lucky enough to get a ride on a G200 last weekend, through a series of crazy events. I was helping my sister buy a car and the guy I was buying it from so happened to be a pilot. We got to talking and my enthusiasm about the subject excited him, maybe he saw a bit of himself 20 years ago in me. I ended up buying the car from him and he promised me a couple hours of dual time and a ride in in the jump seat of the gulf-stream. At that point I told my sister we were buying the car, I didn’t care if it blew up in the driveway! Haha.

To your point, I’ve been doing everything I can do, and I’m going to continue working hard on this dream.
 
RussR said:
Nobody really addressed this. I have no wisdom on the FAA side of the process other than what's been said already.

However, I have made flying a pretty successful side business through flight instructing and contract work. It has been acceptably lucrative for me. And I have never once been asked about any criminal history, arrest records, etc., by any potential employer. That said, I also haven't flown for an airline or for any other "business" with an HR department, etc. I don't think I've ever actually filled out a job application for any of my flying jobs either.

So, I don't know if your history will or won't be an issue for any potential employer, but for anything I've done, I've never even been asked.
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Russ, thanks for your response. This is encouraging to hear. Although money is not the motivating factor in this decision, it certainly would be nice to make some doing something I’d love!
 
Medically, I'm not qualified to help.

But, I will point out that gliders do not require a medical (and motorgliders can do many things planes can). I don't know how long it will take to get your medical, but if you find a gliderport you can can learn to fly and obtain a certificate while you wait. The skills will transfer to airplanes when you can get your medical from the FAA, the hours will count toward a professional pilot experience requirements, and you would have the option to get commercial glider and CFI-G (Certificated Flight Instructor - Glider) so you can earn some money flying if the wait takes long enough for you to get there.
 
MarkH said:
Medically, I'm not qualified to help.

But, I will point out that gliders do not require a medical (and motorgliders can do many things planes can). I don't know how long it will take to get your medical, but if you find a gliderport you can can learn to fly and obtain a certificate while you wait. The skills will transfer to airplanes when you can get your medical from the FAA, the hours will count toward a professional pilot experience requirements, and you would have the option to get commercial glider and CFI-G (Certificated Flight Instructor - Glider) so you can earn some money flying if the wait takes long enough for you to get there.
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Mark, thank you for your time.
Great advice!!! I will look into this, we actually have a glider port about 5 minutes from my house, so if all else fails, this would be a great alternative!
 
TheFlyingFerreira said:
Mark, thank you for your time.
Great advice!!! I will look into this, we actually have a glider port about 5 minutes from my house, so if all else fails, this would be a great alternative!
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It's a great alternative, but my suggestion is to use it as a supplement. If you want to become a professional pilot, you will need 250 hours of flight time for a commercial rating, 500 hours to fly very restricted charters, 1200 hours to fly most charters, and 1500 hours to fly airliners. These are the legal minimums, so the hiring minimums may be even higher. This will take years for a pilot that does not have to wait for a medical.

Learning to fly gliders will allow to start chipping away at those experience requirements while working with your AME and it will help keep you motivated as you work through what will be a stressful process.

Edit: Before too many jump in, the charter numbers are for PIC, you can fly SIC for charters at 250 hours, but even in the pilot shortage charter companies wanted to see more than 250.
 
I sympathize with the your situation and I am one of the few who believe that not everyone who drinks (or drank) alcohol has a drinking problem. You can search my name and read my process. The FAA labeled me “abuse” for MUCH less than your dilemma. Bottom line is the FAA marches to their own drum. I was of the same mindset though that I would do WHATEVER it took. With the help of Dr Bruce, I was able to get issued...but it took 7 months and many, many hoops. Continued hoops for 5 years as well. Was it worth it? Yes. I got my PPL on Halloween and go for my IFR check ride in two weeks. It’s a sobering process, no pun intended. But surround yourself with people in the know and listen to your HIMS AME...you have a path...don’t forget it.
 
RussS said:
I sympathize with the your situation and I am one of the few who believe that not everyone who drinks (or drank) alcohol has a drinking problem. You can search my name and read my process. The FAA labeled me “abuse” for MUCH less than your dilemma. Bottom line is the FAA marches to their own drum. I was of the same mindset though that I would do WHATEVER it took. With the help of Dr Bruce, I was able to get issued...but it took 7 months and many, many hoops. Continued hoops for 5 years as well. Was it worth it? Yes. I got my PPL on Halloween and go for my IFR check ride in two weeks. It’s a sobering process, no pun intended. But surround yourself with people in the know and listen to your HIMS AME...you have a path...don’t forget it.
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Agreed, me too... I did nothing illegal, I wasn't anywhere near a car, plane or ANY vehicle and was labeled an abuser for FAR - FAR less. It too me 18 months and $120k+ to convince them I was "safe". They basically ran out of reasons NOT to allow me to fly and ran out of tests they could throw at me, including an elective angiogram. The FAA's perspective is that no good can come by having someone who has (documented) EVER consumed alcohol get their license, even a class 3. Think about it, what good does a government agency have by allowing a risky candidate ever to occupy the left seat? If something ever goes bad, congressmen will have someone's head (ie Schumer).
 
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In striving for the lowest possible accident rate, the FAA appears to be embracing the concept that the fewer people that they let fly, the lower the accident rate will be.
 
MacFly said:
In striving for the lowest possible accident rate, the FAA appears to be embracing the concept that the fewer people that they let fly, the lower the accident rate will be.
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Don't think you are too far off from the truth, it's not funny.
 
I didn't read all the posts, so if this was suggested, sorry for the repeat. As much as I hate to suggest this, sometimes hiring the right people who know how to jump through the exact holes in the exact right order is priceless. Do that before you do damage to yourself from being ignorant of the process. Yes, I am suggesting professional help, as in the right lawyer who is practiced at doing exactly what you need. Sometimes you can do more damage by asking the wrong questions at the wrong time. Don't give the FAA any more info than you must. Less is more. Someone who is practiced at handling these situations, can sometimes save you a lot of headaches. I really hate to suggest that, but I really think that before you do any possible additional damage to yourself, get professional help. Just the consultation may be more than worth the price.
Good luck
 
MalibuJim said:
Agreed, me too... I did nothing illegal, I wasn't anywhere near a car, plane or ANY vehicle and was labeled an abuser for FAR - FAR less. It too me 18 months and $120k+ to convince them I was "safe". They basically ran out of reasons NOT to allow me to fly and ran out of tests they could throw at me, including an elective angiogram. The FAA's perspective is that no good can come by having someone who has (documented) EVER consumed alcohol get their license, even a class 3. Think about it, what good does a government agency have by allowing a risky candidate ever to occupy the left seat? If something ever goes bad, congressmen will have someone's head (ie Schumer).
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If the FAA doesn’t want pilots to consume alcohol, then make it the policy across the board. That would of course include everyone up to the top. But you can bet your lunch money that the FAA elite partake. Hell, most pilots that I know drink....often. I don’t have a problem with having to refrain from alcohol....I have a problem with the hypocrisy.
 
RussS said:
If the FAA doesn’t want pilots to consume alcohol, then make it the policy across the board. That would of course include everyone up to the top. But you can bet your lunch money that the FAA elite partake. Hell, most pilots that I know drink....often. I don’t have a problem with having to refrain from alcohol....I have a problem with the hypocrisy.
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I adhere to FARs on the subject, but otherwise don't refrain from alcohol at all. I just don't ever do stupid ****, like driving, while doing so. That's never seemed like a hard task to manage and has never imposed a significant burden on my lifestyle.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
I didn't read all the posts, so if this was suggested, sorry for the repeat. As much as I hate to suggest this, sometimes hiring the right people who know how to jump through the exact holes in the exact right order is priceless. Do that before you do damage to yourself from being ignorant of the process. Yes, I am suggesting professional help, as in the right lawyer who is practiced at doing exactly what you need. Sometimes you can do more damage by asking the wrong questions at the wrong time. Don't give the FAA any more info than you must. Less is more. Someone who is practiced at handling these situations, can sometimes save you a lot of headaches. I really hate to suggest that, but I really think that before you do any possible additional damage to yourself, get professional help. Just the consultation may be more than worth the price.
Good luck
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Bad advice. The last thing you want to do is get an attorney involved. This isn't civil litigation, this is administrative law and there is a huge difference. If you want your application to get pulled pending legal dispute/review, which can add years to the process, go for it. You may end up winning 4 years down the road, while the rest of us are already in the left seat. The correct course of action is to enlist the help of an FAA MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, ie Dr. Bruce, that knows exactly what needs to be done to streamline the process. Don't think for one minute you, or your attorney have any impact on changing the process. Even my congressman's involvement did nothing but get me delayed updates.
 
MacFly said:
I adhere to FARs on the subject, but otherwise don't refrain from alcohol at all. I just don't ever do stupid ****, like driving, while doing so. That's never seemed like a hard task to manage and has never imposed a significant burden on my lifestyle.
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This won't protect you. I had a syncope event (fainted due to dehydration) and because I had consumed alcohol, I was labeled an alcohol abuser by the FAA
(since I went to the hospital, had to be disclosed). Like I said, I did nothing illegal. I wasn't near a car or plane, or bicycle for that matter.

So, cut yourself in your own kitchen requiring stitches and if you were drinking wine while cooking, you too will be labeled an abuser by the FAA.
 
Ouch! That was unfortunate.

There are always outliers. I tend to plan my life around the likelihoods. It's worked pretty well so far.
 
It's very good advice to get someone who knows exactly where to go to get the job done. Just like with the IRS, you can do more damage by yourself, without having a helping hand. I'm not talking about litigation. Lots of lawyers don't do litigation. The right one knows exactly how to work inside the system to get things done in the right order. With the right wording, to the right people who have the right authority to make the right decisions. Like any other bureaucracy the wrong comma in the wrong place can take forever to unwind. Solve that before it happens.
The right wording in the right place can be priceless. But if you screw it up with dotting an "I" wrong, it can take forever to recover. That's why the pro's don't go infront of the FAA, or chief pilot without their representative in front of them. ALPA keep medical attorney's on staff, with staff AME's to deal with this stuff. Doesn't always work perfectly, but better than dealing with it on your own, in an environment you don't know how to operate in.
 
MalibuJim said:
This won't protect you. I had a syncope event (fainted due to dehydration) and because I had consumed alcohol, I was labeled an alcohol abuser by the FAA
(since I went to the hospital, had to be disclosed). Like I said, I did nothing illegal. I wasn't near a car or plane, or bicycle for that matter.

So, cut yourself in your own kitchen requiring stitches and if you were drinking wine while cooking, you too will be labeled an abuser by the FAA.
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If I cut myself requiring stitches, why would anyone at the ER have reason to know I was drinking wine? Unless I was obviously intoxicated.
 
Lindberg said:
If I cut myself requiring stitches, why would anyone at the ER have reason to know I was drinking wine? Unless I was obviously intoxicated.
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Because in full disclosure to the ER, when you faint they need to know exactly what you were doing, what you ate, and what you drank. There could have been something much more serious than syncope, such as a brain hemorrhage or other issue . And all of that goes into the report.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Why would it matter if you were intoxicated?
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Because the FAA perspective is that if you had anything to drink, and injured yourself, you are a bad decision-maker and do not belong in a cockpit. PERIOD.
 
MalibuJim said:
Because the FAA perspective is that if you had anything to drink, and injured yourself, you are a bad decision-maker and do not belong in a cockpit. PERIOD.
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Oh I didn’t hurt myself. Or anyone else. Or have a DUI, or a family incident...or a work incident. I had a high alcohol bio marker when tested for my psych evaluation that I had to get because of situational anxiety meds. All of the supporting DSM questioning was negative. Every other blood marker was negative. Family counselor opinion was negative...FAA ordered drug and alcohol counselor report was negative. I drank a lot responsibly over time....that’s enough in the eyes of the FAA. Of course I was told “we’ve never seen a CDT level so high”...so to that I have to ask. If there is no supporting medical or psychiatric evidence to that one test...how can you possibly call it abuse? The fact is, the FAA doesn’t know what to do with the in-betweeners..which I assume MOST people fit into the category. You either show NO signs of drinking, or you’re a raging alcoholic who can’t make rational decisions. They would much rather me jump through hoops for 5 years and spend many thousands of dollars than admit that their system is broken...and maybe, just MAYBE, they got one wrong. No skin off their back.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Yep. I’ve been lucky too. Hope it holds out.
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I've found that the harder I work at it, the luckier I get. But otherwise...yup...lightening could strike me at any moment. Less likely if I avoid standing around on the golf course waving a 9-iron in a thunderstorm.
 
MacFly said:
I've found that the harder I work at it, the luckier I get. But otherwise...yup...lightening could strike me at any moment. Less likely if I avoid standing around on the golf course waving a 9-iron in a thunderstorm.
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Well. None of that is required to get screwed but yeah whatever.
 
Austin F said:
I agree. But does the FAA not recognize that people ARE able to turn their lives around? I’m 4 years sober in 9 days, I’m willing to submit to any and every test they require, I will go to AA, I will get evaluated, random alcohol/drug tests. You name it I’m there. It was a simple decision for me to stop drinking after seeing the destruction it was starting to cause in my life. I’ve actually even helped several of my friends, and my sister, who was a serious alcoholic, make a 180. She now has several welding certifications, a good job, and gave up the drink. I’ve gone the opposite way with things. Think Bill W.

I spoke with my AME a few days ago and she was confident that a few things might play in my favor, however I see this as wishful thinking and I’m not going to count on it

1. I was fairly young when this all happened (22)
2. I wasn’t pursuing a career in aviation
3. my BAC’s weren’t alarmingly high (yes too high nonetheless)
4. My willingness to submit to whatever tests or evaluations they want.

I guess she would know better than I would, but I don’t see these things really doing much for me.
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WDD said:
Expunged records? So, if possible, and after 5 years of AA meetings, etc., he goes before a judge and gets the record expunged, what happens?

Legally it didn't happen. There is no record available. But I would think the FAA wouldn't care about that legal definition, would still want to know "have you ever in your life" been arrested, etc. Has expunging then getting a medical ever happened? Would this ever be a good idea? On one hand, it could giving a sober person a fresh start; on the other hand, it could let let a sober alcoholic untrained on how to keep sober fly a plane full of people.

BTW - what is it about flying you want to do? Hobby? Profession? I'm curious why you are working to get a 1st class at this time. Were you already a pilot?
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Generally driving convictions cannot be expunged in the majority of states. It is a permanent record that judges do not have the authority to clean.
https://www.dui.info/can-i-get-my-georgia-dui-expunged
 
MacFly said:
Worse....there's no way to make it so.
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I don’t mind it. If life was fair and equal outcome was a reality life would be boring as hell and rather pointless. I do like to engage in the process to eliminate some of the more ridiculous things we put up with but overall we have it pretty good.
 
Lindberg said:
That makes sense. But I was responding to your hypothetical that I cut myself in the kitchen.
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All the report needs is the word "alcohol" in it and if you were injured, that's all the FAA needs to call you an abuser. In my case, the FAA then falsely and without evidence, tried to say I had a brain injury and I had to prove I did not, which required 3 brain MRS's, and multiple neurologist appointments. Then I satisfied that accusation, then they tried to say my heart could have caused the fainting, so I needed a Nuclear treadmill, elective Angiogram, and countless other tests to prove I was fine. They would use any excuse to keep me flying they could. I hate to say I won because I played their game and did EVERYTHING they asked and passed. Oh, yea, and I had to see psychologists in Seattle and Los Angeles and did the full neurocog too. Passed them all.
 
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