Vertigo

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ttexrbomb

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So the FAA is relentless. They are requiring an analysis from a neurotologist, despite me having no history or complaints of vertigo.

So I am set to see an ENT/Neurotologist this coming week. The doctor i am going to see has experience with aerospace medical. So I am hoping the FAA will listen to what he has to say.

I have a few questions. How do they test for vertigo absent any previous diagnosis? What kind of testing will they do? The doctor I am going to is charging $600 for the testing with the expectation he will provide a work up suitable for submission to the FAA.

I guess I am really concerned because the FAA got a referral on me from a disgruntled CFI who basically fabricated the fact that I have vertigo and it affected my flying under the hood (despite me never flying in IMC or under the hood with him). Think retaliation. So it seems that the mere accusation has the FAA really hanging onto this. I’m a CFI/CFII and I have a lot of time and money invested. And I am hoping that this can be put behind me...because I have never been diagnosed or have experienced vertigo symptoms.
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jstone said:
I would be talking to an attorney if a Cfi gave false information to the faa.
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That is the plan after I get this whole medical issue resolved. Plan is to get that resolved first, then contact an attorney.


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bbchien said:
So get you derrière over to an ENT......get the testing done......
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So my derriére is getting over there on Thursday. My question really was what tests will they do or does the FAA expect, especially absent any previous diagnosis or complaint?

I’m basically going into this Neurotologist to ask him for a letter or report telling the FAA I do not have vertigo and hopefully he will be able to provide it. But what kind of testing does the FAA want? Just a letter or do they really want a battery of testing as well?


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Salty said:
Gotta love the Faa. Who else could get away with sending a demand letter to prove a negative?
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Right. And not only that. But the fact my primary doctor said “you do not have a history of vertigo in your medical records, going back to 1999” isn’t enough. We want you to actually go see a specialist. Crazy..


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ttexrbomb said:
So my derriére is getting over there on Thursday. My question really was what tests will they do or does the FAA expect, especially absent any previous diagnosis or complaint?
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Usually to measure this they will put skin electrodes on the side of your head to measure your eye movements (the retina acts like a little battery and they can detect movements this way) and they have you sit in a chair that rotates at different speeds. They then check how your eyes are making rapid movements before, during, and after rotation, normally in light and darkness.

Even after stopping rotation your eyes will continue making slow tracking and rapid correction movements (nystagmus) driven by your vestibular system.

All of this will let them see if your eye movements are “normal” or not.

Here is a more detailed description - https://vestibular.org/sites/defaul...agnostic Tests for Vestibular Disorders_0.pdf
 
What is the difference between vertigo, motion sickness, and just getting dizzy?
 
Wait you so you can just say someone might have something and the FAA will go after them and force them to take medical tests? This is almost like swatting...

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p1l0t said:
Wait you so you can just say someone might have something and the FAA will go after them and force them to take medical tests? This is almost like swatting...
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In this case, it was his CFI reporting to the FAA that he exhibited problems controlling the aircraft due to an apparent medical condition. It seems the report may not have been accurate, but that's a bit more than just "saying someone might have something."
 
Not as I read it. The OP is already a CFI / CFII. The guy who reported him never flew with him from what I can tell

(despite me never flying in IMC or under the hood with him)
 
WDD said:
Not as I read it. The OP is already a CFI / CFII. The guy who reported him never flew with him from what I can tell

(despite me never flying in IMC or under the hood with him)
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Here's the full quote:
I guess I am really concerned because the FAA got a referral on me from a disgruntled CFI who basically fabricated the fact that I have vertigo and it affected my flying under the hood (despite me never flying in IMC or under the hood with him).
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It doesn't say the OP never flew with the CFI who reported him. Maybe that's the case, but that should be easy enough to prove if so.
 
Lindberg said:
Here's the full quote:

It doesn't say the OP never flew with the CFI who reported him. Maybe that's the case, but that should be easy enough to prove if so.
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Either 1) he didn't fly with him at all, or 2) he flew with him but not under the hood nor in IMC, and the OP didn't exhibit any vertigo symptoms.
In either scenario, I can't see that there was any observed behavior or evidence to justify a call to the FAA. I also can't imagine what the "write up" to the FAA would be unless he completely fabricated a flight that didn't exist.
 
This may be a paperwork error. The pilot being reported may be someone else.

Ask the FAA for the date of the reported vertigo incident. If you in fact did not fly that day with the reporting CFI, ask them to verify that you are in fact the pilot reported. You want exact confirmation of the facts in order to successfully recover lost cost and time when you sue the reporting CFI.

I have been twice accused of violations which were factually untrue. An illegally parked red Ford truck was recorded as having the numbers of my white Chevrolet tags. Straightening that out took about a year, as the Washington DC government then assumed that I was driving two trucks with one set of tags........

If you cannot document that the CFI gave the wrong name, or the FAA misidentified you, I hope that you recover the direct costs plus the hours spent defending yourself at your regular instructing rate.

If possible, obtain a photocopy of the CFI's report to the FAA. That will be valid evidence in court.
 
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geezer said:
This may be a paperwork error. The pilot being reported may be someone else.

Ask the FAA for the date of the reported vertigo incident. If you in fact did not fly that day with the reporting CFI, ask them to verify that you are in fact the pilot reported. You want exact confirmation of the facts in order to successfully recover lost cost and time when you sue the reporting CFI.
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I like this approach ... make them prove they have a case instead of making you defend an accusation. Of course we're talking about the FAA here ... they play by the rules that they wrote so only they can interpret them as they need to ...
 
Ok, here is an update.

As the FAA requested, I went to see a Neurotologist today. The doctor I went to see was a Neurotologist in the US Air Force for 16 years, and he's been in private practice for over twenty years. I was relieved when he told me that he sees a number of referrals from AME's on a frequent basis, and he knows typically what the FAA is looking for in a report. I felt like I was in good hands.

We started with a hearing test (audiogram), which took about 45 minutes. The technician ran four separate tests, and the conclusion was that my hearing was in very good shape. Then, another technician conducted a head impulse test. For this test, I wore a pair of glasses that had a camera attached which measured my eye response to a set of tests. For the six different aspects, I did well. The doctors conclusion was there is no sign of vertigo, and as a result there is no need for further expensive testing. I asked if the FAA would accept just those two tests and no further testing for my case and he seemed very confident they would. He indicated to me in the past when somebody presented with no history of vertigo that the regiment of testing he did on me was sufficient. So with that, I am hopeful this will put this bay to rest with the FAA. The doctor said he knew the Regional Flight Surgeon that was on my letter, and he would fax the test results and his chart note directly to the FAA. I asked if he had any concerns with me flying, which he responded "no, you should be fine."

So hopefully with this, the FAA will be satisfied.

As for how this got reported, the complaint received at the FAA said that I experienced "difficulty training in instrument conditions under the hood." The FAA was able to tell me the dates of the "flights" that this occurred on. All I can say is that the dates that were reported, there were no flights from me. This was a frivolous report. I am looking at legal options after this FAA case is closed.

At the time, I was not a CFI. I am a CFI/II now, working on my multi engine and soon, my MEI. This could have been a career killer and I will be holding the flight school who reported this responsible. All I can say is whoever did this to me at that flight school (I know exactly who it was), there is a special place in a very hot place for them.

I am looking forward to putting this behind me. And now I am very familiar with CAMI.
 
WDD said:
Not as I read it. The OP is already a CFI / CFII. The guy who reported him never flew with him from what I can tell

(despite me never flying in IMC or under the hood with him)
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I flew with the CFI before, but not on the dates in the letter. My guess is he did not expect me to put the dots together and figure out who it was who made the report.
 
geezer said:
If possible, obtain a photocopy of the CFI's report to the FAA. That will be valid evidence in court.
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That is my plan. Once the FAA resolves their case, I am requesting my entire medical file from the FAA, which will hopefully contain the report. If it does not, I have a text message thread between myself and the school during the relevant time frame that should clear any doubt who made the report.
 
ttexrbomb said:
That is my plan. Once the FAA resolves their case, I am requesting my entire medical file from the FAA, which will hopefully contain the report. If it does not, I have a text message thread between myself and the school during the relevant time frame that should clear any doubt who made the report.
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I respectfully request that you keep this thread current as matters progress............

Like sands through the hourglass... so are the Days of Our Lives.
 
KeepWatch said:
I respectfully request that you keep this thread current as matters progress............

Like sands through the hourglass... so are the Days of Our Lives.
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I definitely will. So as of today, two days after my neurotology appointment, here is the status.

The doctors office was supposed to fax their report to the FAA regional office. I gave them the fax number, which was provided to me by the analyst at the FAA. Since there was absolutely no hint of vertigo and the Neurotologist said I was good to fly (he was a former Air Force doctor), I did not see an issue with this.

I contacted the FAA regional office yesterday at their 800 number. I informed them that I completed their request to be seen by a neurologist, and they should be expecting his reports soon. I also advised that I would be sending the report in as well along with the doctor chart note. My Neurotologist said the FAA usually accepts his chart notes in lieu of a formal letter.

Now it is a waiting game. They got what they wanted. Hopefully this will put this baby to rest.


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