Michigan Winter Flying

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pgs

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P.G.S.
I'm going to be moving to Grand Rapids, MI just before Christmas next month and wanted to get an idea of what I'm in for as far as the training environment is concerned. I'm not really sure what to ask, but I only lived in Texas and I'm just beginning my aviation journey with about 20 hours so far.

My main worry is there isn't going to be a lot of days when I'll be able to fly because of snow, wind, or icing conditions.

Can anyone tell me about the weather around that part of the country and if people take breaks during that time? I've watched a couple youtube videos and saw some various issues with getting the plane out of the hanger due to ice freezing the door seal to the ground and having to flip on engine and cab heaters before you go there but is there anything else that I need to be thinking of?

My school is going to be right by Lake Michigan (Muskegon) if there is some local weather to keep in mind too.

Thanks.
 
Lake effect snow...

Some days are bad, some days are good. Preheating is a given. January / February are the worst for overcast skies. But it's not a total washout.

If you have your own airplane, plan on shoveling snow in front of the hangar (plow doesn't get exactly to the door). Of course, you will get lots of practice at home too.
 
Icing. Be prepared for airmet for icing till about May, often starting at ground. Unless you are flying into visible moisture , freezing level is not a concern. If you are flying a low wing, keep an eye out for frost over the wing. If you are flying high wing, you can’t see the frost after a long taxi, so .... well hopefully there is no frost on the wings.

That’s why low wing is better that high wing .

Be prepared to shovel if you have hangar. It sucks.

A trainer category airplane will climb like homesick angel.

Don’t fly into snow squall lines.
 
If it’s anything like NEPA the mornings always seem clearer and it clouds up mid day. Some winters you don’t see direct sunlight for weeks. Icing airmets turn into tinnitus and you begin to not even read them anymore. That being said so far this start of that season has been great for flying GA.
 
Be prepared for a weather shock. it is the first of December :)
 
It will be different, for sure. But, the weather there can be on and off, some days you'll just have to cancel, others will be fine. Sounds like you're lined up for lessons at a flight school, and that you don't own your own plane, right? In that case, surely the flight school (I'm guessing) has hangars, or plug-ins, etc., to keep planes ready to use as much as possible. The biggest issue may be your drive from Grand Rapids over to Muskegon, and determining if you can really fly or not on any given day. Just work out some kind of protocol with your instructor (call ahead, whatever) so you don't waste too many trips back and forth. Flexibility in your (and your CFI's) schedule would help, it can be limiting if, say, your lesson day is planned to be every Saturday at 10am, or Thursdays at 2pm, whatever, that, of course, increases the chances of having your narrow window be a cancel-day. At any rate, you should still be able to make reasonable progress with your lessons, though maybe a bit slower than in sunny regions.
 
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pgs said:
Does the overcast layer break up during the afternoon or is it there all day?
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Overcasts can last for several days to weeks. Depending on ceilings, local flights are not a big deal. Cross country gets a little more iffy - you just have to be flexible.

In other news, the first couple of snow storms you find that over the summer, many people have forget how to drive on snow. Plus, you have the nervous Nellies that drive according to what they hear on the radio and not what is actually on the roads. 35mph in the middle lane of the freeway. And you have the clowns with four wheel drive who don't seem to realize that they can't stop any faster than anyone else.

People that live three miles from work won't be able to make it in. But the guy who lives three counties away will be there on time. Allow at least twice your usual commute time.

The ramp at the airport is a great place to do doughnuts in the snow if you get there before the plows and if there is no one around. Doughnuts while towing trailer are fun too.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
...In other news, the first couple of snow storms you find that over the summer, many people have forget how to drive on snow. Plus, you have the nervous Nellies that drive according to what they hear on the radio and not what is actually on the roads. 35mph in the middle lane of the freeway. And you have the clowns with four wheel drive who don't seem to realize that they can't stop any faster than anyone else...
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And then there are those who've never before had to drive in snow.
One of my business partners lives not far from me in Whitefish, Montana. The virus has dramatically accelerated the inbound migration of people, many with Texas and California plates that are apparently oblivious of the concept of winter tires, gloves and snow shovels.
 
GRG55 said:
And then there are those who've never before had to drive in snow.
One of my business partners lives not far from me in Whitefish, Montana. The virus has dramatically accelerated the inbound migration of people, many with Texas and California plates that are apparently oblivious of the concept of winter tires, gloves and snow shovels.
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That's actually me. :D

My girlfriend promises to teach me how to survive up here though. I'm going to buy gloves soon too and I'm on the fence about winter tires. A lot of people have told me I don't actually need them.
 
pgs said:
That's actually me. :D

My girlfriend promises to teach me how to survive up here though. I'm going to buy gloves soon too and I'm on the fence about winter tires. A lot of people have told me I don't actually need them.
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They're all from Texas too. :D
 
pgs said:
I'm on the fence about winter tires.
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I don't bother - streets get plowed quickly enough. So, most of the winter you are driving on dry pavement. But you will see more snow than I do over on the east side of the state.
If you are on a motorcycle, knobby tires are good in the snow. Also, it's noticeably warmer behind buses. Warming your gloves on the cylinder head is OK. Warming them on the exhaust pipe is not.
 
GET SNOW TIRES! All season tires are summer tires, not winter snow tires. Please do not disregard this advice. Snow tires give you much better traction in the snow and on hard packed snow/ice. Michelin X-ICE or Bridgestone Blizzzak’s are probably the top choices. And just because you have AWD in your Subaru or any other AWD car doesn't mean you don't need snow tires, AWD gets you going but after that AWD has no advantage over any other car getting stopped.

Welcome to Michigan! Some of the best flying is in the cold still winter air.

Kurt
 
Fly North said:
GET SNOW TIRES! All season tires are summer tires, not winter snow tires. Please do not disregard this advice. Snow tires give you much better traction in the snow and on hard packed snow/ice. Michelin X-ICE or Bridgestone Blizzzak’s are probably the top choices. And just because you have AWD in your Subaru or any other AWD car doesn't mean you don't need snow tires, AWD gets you going but after that AWD has no advantage over any other car getting stopped.

Welcome to Michigan! Some of the best flying is in the cold still winter air.

Kurt
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I've got a RWD 4runner. Unfortunately, not even AWD. I plan on driving the GF's AWD Subie though. I guess I need to convince her to buy snow tires. :D
 
pgs said:
I've got a RWD 4runner. Unfortunately, not even AWD. I plan on driving the GF's AWD Subie though. I guess I need to convince her to buy snow tires. :D
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Yes you do need to convince her! Get snow tires, NOT “all season” tires on both of the cars! Bell Tire will take care of you. We have snow tires on our cars including my wife’s Subaru. Night and day difference!

Kurt
 
For car tires, M+S has suited me fine. I grew up in a rwd 60/40 weight dist car. It’s a lot of fun! I would bring a shovel in the car just in case. Also, get 2-3 sandbags for the truck and keep them in the back of the bed (behind the rear axle - adds weight over rear axle).

re: flying, not much to add to others. In general once your personal minimums are in 20-30 kt winds, you won’t have to cancel. Like others have said here, Great Lakes are an ice machine. No need to fear, just healthy dose of respect. Recall it takes visible moisture to produce ice. Review the NASA icing presentation, it’s a great refresher! (I’ll look for the link) I review it 2-3 times each winter.

Welcome to the region, you’ll love flying Pure Michigan!
 
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There are lots of days in the winter you can fly in the northern Tier downwind of the Great lakes, but there will be days of Lake effect overcast and snow. Lake effect clouds can be prodigious ice makers, so IFR XC is hostage to potential widespread icing from about Nov 15 to April 15. I don't make many XC trips in winter, but there are lots of beautiful days to fly locally.

In central New York, downwind of the lakes, 1 of every 4 cars is a Subaru AWD, and we put on winter tires. Never missed a curling league game because of weather my car couldn't cope with.
 
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When the brick is all the way out at the end of the chain, no student solo.
 
Fly North said:
Yes you do need to convince her! Get snow tires, NOT “all season” tires on both of the cars! Bell Tire will take care of you. We have snow tires on our cars including my wife’s Subaru. Night and day difference!

Kurt
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Go to tire rack.com and order a set of pre mounted snow tires on aluminum or steel rims so you can just swap wheels. Another plus is if you have low profile rims on your car. The roads become very pot holed in the late winter and spring, and the snow tires on a spare set of rims deal with the pot holes much better. They are likely to be cheaper to replace if you bend them than the OEM rims, too.
 
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PPC1052 said:
Go to tire rack.com and order a set of pre mounted snow tires on aluminum or steel rims so you can just swap wheels. Another plus is if you have low profile rims on your car. The roads become very pot holes in the late winter and spring, and the snow tires on a spare set of rims deal with the pot holes much better. They are likely to be cheaper to replace if you bend them than the OEMb rims, too.
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Yep, that is what we have done, works great!

Kurt
 
I’m close to both, my club plane is at GRR and I’m hangared at 6d6... it’s on again off again... you’ll be in nosedragger you’ll be fine on a lil ice ;) we fly year round but certainly easier once winter is done. But it will prepare you well- besides for getting a false sense of a trainers capabilities .


If your bored look me up, I got skis rigged on my old gal so hoping to do a bunch of ski flying this year
 
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OP, when you do run up on the taxiway / run up area, try to find a spot that doesnt have ice/black ice on it. else things could get interesting... or so i hear. i have never done that :p
 
And try not to blast the airplane behind you, winter or summer. No matter where you are, you own your prop blast or rotor wash, proceed with caution and consideration.

Kurt
 
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the plane weather vaning during slow taxi with surface winds is a "interesting" experience.

Put BFG KO2's on your 4runner. They are fantastic on snow and ice.
 
Layers my friend. Not cloud layers, but the layers you wear. Moisture wicking performance fabric, warmth, protection from the elements. And get yourself a good pair of insulated boots.

Single engine airplane heaters ain't worth a damn below 20 degrees.
 
I'm going to assume it's a lot like northern WI.

Preheat is mandatory, hope you're ready to keep a straight and steady approach to land on snowy/icy runways. They plow them but there are almost always patches if it's not completely covered. Wheeled airplanes get stuck surprisingly easily in not much snow so be careful of that. Hangar is a must if any weather comes through. When it gets seriously cold, approaching or below 0 advance the throttle extra slow on takeoff, the air coming in the intake will be really dense and(at least with a carb) your accelerator pump won't be calibrated for it so too much throttle too quick could kill the engine.

Yes, ice locking down hangar doors IS a thing. The sun melts what's on the roof during the day then that drips onto the colder ground and re-freezes as ice overnight. The ice can get quite thick, imagine trying to clear a foot of solid ice along your hangar doors. Most effective thing I ever found was a pickaxe. Most people just say screw it and wait for spring at that point.

Another thing I ran into- your ability to pull and push your airplane around with a towbar is severely reduced by slippery snow/ice. You may need help where you previously wouldn't have. For very slick ice I suggest something like this https://www.amazon.com/EnergeticSky...=1607148795&s=apparel&sr=1-7&ts_id=3421064011

Yes, obviously icing is an issue. Another issue is winter weather systems like to hover over an area and take forever to clear out. I once needed to ferry my airplane a short distance and couldn't go for over a week due to low ceilings.

Non-aviation advice: Find yourself a snowmobile jacket, those things are the warmest most comfortable cold weather jackets I've ever worn. When it gets down towards 0 or colder don't touch anything metal outdoors without gloves on. Learn to embrace the cold, it's really not bad once you get used to it, at least I didn't think so.
 
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PPC1052 said:
Go to tire rack.com and order a set of pre mounted snow tires on aluminum or steel rims so you can just swap wheels. Another plus is if you have low profile rims on your car. The roads become very pot holed in the late winter and spring, and the snow tires on a spare set of rims deal with the pot holes much better. They are likely to be cheaper to replace if you bend them than the OEM rims, too.
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Tire Rack has nice alloy rims for a good price, too. I'm still using those winter rims on my second set of Subies. There is no comparison between "all-season" tire and a good set of winter tires like Blizzaks. Snow doesn't slow down the well-prepared here in Central New York, with around 120 inches of snow each season. Shoveling out the hangar door is a PITA, though.
 
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